Camshaft swop

[Loby]

I recently purchased a 99 Interstate to replace my 2000 Tourer. The Is has 19k miles and was super clean but ran like crap from sitting to long I presumed. The engine was missing and had no power. When I got it home I started robbing all the goodies from my Tourer and installing them on the stripper Is. The bike had allready been desmoged. I rejetted the carbs to 38 slows and 105 mains to go with the glass packs I borrowed from the Tourer. The bike then ran smooth at Idle and during accleration but went flat about 4500 rpm, just quit pulling like I'm used to. Even the exhaust sounded different than what I've been used to, after 4500 rpm. I did everything but pull my hair out tring to fix it. Swopped coils, air cleaners, plugs, changed intake O rings, found potential vacume leaks, but nothing helped. After much research on this forum I figured out I bought a California Interstate, S.N. SC411 indicating Cali. IS. I purchased the bike in Florida. Smaller cams and different carb part numbers I learned. The lack of power in the upper rpm range wont work for me. Not an option to leave it slow.
 Finally to the point, now I want to swop cams and possibly carbs. I was reading the manual and figured the cam swop would be fairly easy, just swop cams. After sleeping on it I'm worried about it and have some questions.  Is it going to be an issue down the road installing different cams on different cam bearings ? Should the bearings move with the cams and is that an option ? Alot more work but should I swop the entire cylinder heads ? Should I swop Carbs? Seems to be some different opinions on whats actually different about the Cali. Is carbs. I know there is some serious Valkyrie engine experts on this Forum and i'm hoping to get some good advice. Thanks in advance,  Tim

[Patrick]

I doubt your problem is with the camshafts.. The timing is different between the shafts but no one has ever complained of your problem [as being cam related].. I think I'd suggest looking at your modifications and/or possibly a problem with fuel delivery.. These engines will pull well right to red-line regardless of camshafts..

[Loby]

Patrick, the only mod I did was the exhaust and the jets. The exhaust was on my Tourer for years so it's known to be good. I dropped two main jet sizes from 110 to 105. The Tourer ran good with 110 mains but the plugs were brown. Thats why I dropped to 105 on the Is. The Tourer pulled good with stock 100 mains but the headers were starting to blue the plugs were pure white, the tail pipe had no soot after 400 miles and the dyno said I was lean.  Do you think 105 mains could be to big for the California cams. What would I look at in the fuel delivery system? The engine doesn't miss above 4500 rpm, it just doesn't pull hard and the pipe note isn't the normal sound I've been listening to for years.

[Loby]

I forgot to mention the engine has good compression 165- 170 across all six.

[98valk]

all carbs are the same except I/S has softer slide springs.

some magazines stated that all '98 bikes have the calif cams.

check the petcock vacuum diaphragm for leaks which will cause it to not fully open. look into putting a snubber http://www.omega.com/pptst/PS_SNUBBERS.html
in the vacuum line to reduce wear. search for my posts on the subject. my org diapham went bad at 12k, now on 24k on new dia- using the snubber.

[salty1]

I want to follow this thread, so I'm putting my 2c worth in. Sounds like a fuel issue. I certainly wouldn't think 105 mains would be a problem. Has the timing advance been messed with?  

[Loby]

CA, I did check to see if I was getting gas down the vacuum line to number six, and the line is dry. I can put the Tourer tank on the Is to eliminate the petcock. I'll try that first thing in the morning. Salty1' I pulled the timing belt cover to inspect belts but didn't look at the timing wheel to see if it was an aftermarket, can you tell if it's an advance wheel without removing it?

[Hoser]

I would doubt that a camshaft would affect performance on a cal model for it to be noticable.  It's something else.  Make sure it has a stock trigger wheel, and put in a new petcock.  Also check the fuel line, if it sags too much or is kinked enough to slow down fuel flow.  Hoser  ???

[Patrick]

If the exhaust has been OK before then it should still be alright to use.. I was thinking that you did something to change it.. The 105 mains shouldn't be much of a problem but they might cause the engine to run quite rich,, but,, that shouldn't be your trouble.. By fuel delivery I meant petcock and/or vacuum,, I'm not a big fan of the OEM unit..
One more thing,, do you know what ICM you're using ?? Either Honda unit should be fine.. There have been issues with the early Dyna 3000..
When under full power and the engine starts to fall off,, do you get a high-pitched vibration thru your hands ??

[Loby]

CA, what symptoms did you have when your petcock went bad ? I read a thread where the number 6 plug kept fouling from drawing fuel down the vacuum line into the cylinder. Can it be bad and not actually leak fuel ? 

[Ricky-D]

Has there ever been a definitive answer about California bikes getting a different camshaft as opposed to all the others?

I know there's been a lot of discussion on the subject but I cannot recall anything other than conjecture regarding this particular issue.

And I don't regard different part numbers as being the evidence. I know there are many who would use this argument.

Talking about lift, lobe contour, and duration here!

***

[Tx Bohemian]

...can you tell if it's an advance wheel without removing it?

I asked a similar question: I know my trigger wheel has been changed by the PO but he couldn't remember what they put in.  I was told here the advanced number is stamped on the wheel but on the back side so you have to remove it to see.

Now whether it can be determined if it's an aftermarket or stock wheel by just looking at it I don't know.

[98valk]

Has there ever been a definitive answer about California bikes getting a different camshaft as opposed to all the others?

I know there's been a lot of discussion on the subject but I cannot recall anything other than conjecture regarding this particular issue.

And I don't regard different part numbers as being the evidence. I know there are many who would use this argument.

Talking about lift, lobe contour, and duration here!

***

 R-D
service manual (SM) pg 1-5 engine spec's very specific, ie 49state int opens 5 BTDC calif 5 ATDC. the lift and lobe are the same for both cams per pg 8-1.

I have 2 or 3 three magazine articles  (one was DPR racing who did a speed record with a '98) that state all '98 bikes have the calif spec cams, they state reason HP and lbft where down by 10hp and lbft and why '99 and newer 49 state bikes where back to mid 90s in HP with no explanation from honda. SM does not specify any cam differences btwn yrs. I've never checked parts #s to verify either way.

[Loby]

Patrick, The Is was altered from stock before I purchased it. It had 38 slows and 100 mains. I put in new 38 and new 105's. The spark plugs look good, not brown and not white. I'm hoping for a bad petcock, I'll find out tomorrow. The Icm is stock Is model.  I thought about trying the Tourer Icm but have not. Didn't notice a vibration  as it slow building rpm's but I'll check tomorrow. I ran a 6 degree trigger wheel in my 99 standard and 2000 Tourer. I have a stock wheel but haven't checked it against the wheel in the Is now.

[98valk]

...can you tell if it's an advance wheel without removing it?

I asked a similar question: I know my trigger wheel has been changed by the PO but he couldn't remember what they put in.  I was told here the advanced number is stamped on the wheel but on the back side so you have to remove it to see.

Now whether it can be determined if it's an aftermarket or stock wheel by just looking at it I don't know.

search is your friend
http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,4104.0.html

[Loby]

Hoser, It's good to hear again it's not the Calif. Cams. I'll check the trigger wheel tomorrow as well as trying the Tourer tank to eliminate the petcock. I removed a small diameter filter as a precaution and installed a new fuel line. After reading about the sagging line I did go back and remove 3/4 inch and now it's same length as stock.

[valky1500]

Has there ever been a definitive answer about California bikes getting a different camshaft as opposed to all the others?

I know there's been a lot of discussion on the subject but I cannot recall anything other than conjecture regarding this particular issue.

And I don't regard different part numbers as being the evidence. I know there are many who would use this argument.

Talking about lift, lobe contour, and duration here!

***

Acoording to Dag:
1) Intake 5° ATDC - 40° ABDC
CA opens 10 degrees later and

closes 5 degrees earlier for 15

degrees shorter duration.
2) Exhaust 40° BBDC - 5° BTDC
CA opens 5 degrees earlier and

closes 10 degrees earlier for 5

degrees shorter duration.
http://www.valkyrienorway.com/MODEL%20DIFFERENCES.html 

[Challenger]

I know I'm always late to a party, but here is my 2 cents, I have a Cal model 99 I/S and I can tell you that it pulls hard all the way to the rev limiter, It will spank my Std. Is it as fast as a 49 St.? I don't Know, but I can tell you that Honda would not try to market a Valk that runs the way you are describing. I would think fuel or air would be the starting point for diagnosis, What does your air filter look like, what kind is it? has the air box been modified? Please kep us informed on what you find and good luck. 

[John Schmidt]

Instead of swapping the tanks, just use a MityVac and apply a little vacuum to the petcock where the line attaches from #6. If it won't hold a vacuum, that means your petcock is bad. As for the fuel line, just making it the same length as OEM doesn't guarantee anything. You have to make sure the fuel is traveling downhill all the way. If not, on a partial tank you can starve the engine.

[YoungPUP]

The mityvac is a good way to test the petcock, just don't go crazy or you'll turn the diagphram (sp?)
inside out.  3-5lbs is plenty. 

[R J]

Have you taken the bike out since you took the added filter out and shorten the gas line?

If not, do it other wise it sounds like you are just chasing a dead cow.

At our shop I have instilled into our Techs heads, you make a change, you go test it, if no difference, take the part back out and try something else, then test again.

[9Ball]

Do you possibly have an over-oiled K&N air filter?

[valkyriemc]

The mityvac is a good way to test the petcock, just don't go crazy or you'll turn the diagphram (sp?)
inside out.  3-5lbs is plenty. 

+1

[Blackduck]

I'm with Challenger on this, sounds very much like the airbox has had some trimming.
Will run good to a point then nothing, that point depends on how much has been trimmed.
Cheers Steve

[97Valk_CT_Euless]

This may sound stupid, but have you checked to make sure the throttles are opening all the way?

[Loby]

I installed the Tourer tank on the Is this morning and it runs the same, bad. I did get to wack it in first and second today and she sounds bad. Smooth idle, smooth acceleration until 4500- 5000 rpm then she's very irregular sounding, even some light popping through tail pipe. It seems more pronounced in first and second gear. To answer some questions, the air box is also from my Tourer, unaltered with fairly new Honda filter. The air box is seated on the carbs properly and all clamps are tight. I,m going to change the ICM. Thanks guys for all your suggestions to this point, it's good to have your help.

[98valk]

I installed the Tourer tank on the Is this morning and it runs the same, bad. I did get to wack it in first and second today and she sounds bad. Smooth idle, smooth acceleration until 4500- 5000 rpm then she's very irregular sounding, even some light popping through tail pipe. It seems more pronounced in first and second gear. To answer some questions, the air box is also from my Tourer, unaltered with fairly new Honda filter. The air box is seated on the carbs properly and all clamps are tight. I,m going to change the ICM. Thanks guys for all your suggestions to this point, it's good to have your help.

check the rubber umbrellas of the slides,rips, holes not installed right and that all of the needles are the same  and installed the same way.

[Loby]

In my last post I said all the clamps were tight, well, they wearn't. The clamps below the carbs on the rubber boots were loose. These are clamps that i never messed with but will never overlook again. CA, I did look at the umbrellas and needles and thats when I noticed the the clamps being spread kinda far. You don't even see the clamps untill you remove the chrome cover to the choke linkage.
My seat of the pants dyno can't tell the difference between Calif. cams and USA cams. So  I would like to thank everyone for taking the time to help me out.  This is a great forum for Valkyrie owners....Thanks, Tim