Question for the Pres.

[stormrider]

 Enough is too much.  Content removed.

Willow

[3fan4life]

I didn't see the original post so I cannot comment on it.


But I do have one question:

George Bush was slammed here on a regular basis and Bill Clinton was slammed regularly as well.


Short of an outright racial slurr or something of that clearly violates the rules of the board......


Why should Obama get a free pass?  ???

[junior]

[Strong Eagle]

No Junior, I voted for the best candidate, who has to date, has done a great job of undoing the damage of his predecessor.

When you post drivel such as 'drank the kool-aid' you insinuate my choice (and the choice of the majority of Americans) was thoughtless... nothing could be further from the truth.  Because your candidate didn't win you denigrate a majority of the American people.  You want sick?  That's sick.
 
Time to wake up and smell the coffee, as Ann would have said.

[MP]

Just came out on the news.  Obama in FOUR MONTHS, has run up a LARGER shortfall than ALL the US Presidents in history.  And, he has a lot of programs yet to come, ie. health care, etc.
Hang on to your wallet, he is coming to get it!
MP

[junior]

No Junior, I voted for the best candidate, who has to date, has done a great job of undoing the damage of his predecessor.

When you post drivel such as 'drank the kool-aid' you insinuate my choice (and the choice of the majority of Americans) was thoughtless... nothing could be further from the truth.  Because your candidate didn't win you denigrate a majority of the American people.  You want sick?  That's sick.
 
Time to wake up and smell the coffee, as Ann would have said.

well good for you.....have another glass

[Bagger John - #3785]

Just came out on the news.  Obama in FOUR MONTHS, has run up a LARGER shortfall than ALL the US Presidents in history. 

So...does this mean that the media honeymoon is over?  ???

[3fan4life]

No Junior, I voted for the best candidate, who has to date, has done a great job of undoing the damage of his predecessor.

Nothing Factual HERE...... It is simply your oppinion.

my choice and the choice of the majority of Americans  

Not true....   Yes Obama received the most votes.

However,

According to US Census statistics there were 228,044,793 Americans over the age of 18 in 2008.

Obama received 69,456,897 votes.

That means 158,587,896 people either didn't vote for Obama or couldn't be bothered to vote at all.

[junior]

and you dont even live here..................what gives Singapore  and i suppose that if it i was poking fun at GW it would be ok ?

[Strong Eagle]

and you dont even live here..................what gives Singapore  and i suppose that if it i was poking fun at GW it would be ok ?

I am an American citizen, with investments in American companies.  I own property in the US.  I give to US charities.  My child, grandchild, and extended family live in the US.  I pay lots of US taxes even though I don't live there.  The safety of American citizens abroad (and the attitudes that others have towards Americans) are of great concern to me since I work and live abroad.  I get to vote for President.

Why do you think I wouldn't be interested what is going on in the US?

[Serk]

Willow - So, now that the precedent for censorship of political discussion has been established, please at least put up some clear guidelines... What's allowed, what isn't?

Thank you.

[Black Pearl's Captain]

Willow - So, now that the precedent for censorship of political discussion has been established, please at least put up some clear guidelines... What's allowed, what isn't?

Thank you.

Wow so we are to the pont where you have to ask how bad you can get on here. What a low.

I'll give you a hint on your big words question.

1. Play nice or go play in another sandbox.
2. Don't piss off the staff.

Raymond (not staff, just using common sense)

[Serk]

Willow - So, now that the precedent for censorship of political discussion has been established, please at least put up some clear guidelines... What's allowed, what isn't?

Thank you.

Wow so we are to the pont where you have to ask how bad you can get on here. What a low.

I'll give you a hint on your big words question.

1. Play nice or go play in another sandbox.
2. Don't piss off the staff.

Raymond (not staff, just using common sense)

Raymond - I was playing nice... I'm a moderator on several forums, and I'm the webmaster for another one... I know how these things go...

I have no problem with forums having rules and guidelines, but I like to know what they are, that's all I'm asking for... I've generally avoided highly controversial topics directly myself, and have gone out of my way to not poop in the sandbox. I was able to see the original thread before it was removed, and didn't see it as an attack or anything of the sort, thus I'm wondering what is or isn't allowed... I figured that was a perfectly legit query, it was not asked in anger or bitterness...

[Black Pearl's Captain]

Willow - So, now that the precedent for censorship of political discussion has been established, please at least put up some clear guidelines... What's allowed, what isn't?

Thank you.

Wow so we are to the pont where you have to ask how bad you can get on here. What a low.

I'll give you a hint on your big words question.

1. Play nice or go play in another sandbox.
2. Don't piss off the staff.

Raymond (not staff, just using common sense)

Raymond - I was playing nice... I'm a moderator on several forums, and I'm the webmaster for another one... I know how these things go...

I have no problem with forums having rules and guidelines, but I like to know what they are, that's all I'm asking for... I've generally avoided highly controversial topics directly myself, and have gone out of my way to not poop in the sandbox. I was able to see the original thread before it was removed, and didn't see it as an attack or anything of the sort, thus I'm wondering what is or isn't allowed... I figured that was a perfectly legit query, it was not asked in anger or bitterness...

Good deal on the mod of other forums. I'm not saying you did anything wrong but you as a forum mod must know the huge task you've placed on Willow and the staff by asking how dirty we can play.

You and I both know they shouldn't have to deal with BS like that.

Raymond

[Steve K (IA)]

4.) The VRCC Bulletin Board does not allow any unlawful, harmful, threatening, sexually explicit, abusive, harassing, defamatory, vulgar, obscene, racial and/or ethnic slurs; hateful content; or otherwise objectionable material.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If the administrators followed this rule we wouldn't have this BS.

[Serk]

Willow - So, now that the precedent for censorship of political discussion has been established, please at least put up some clear guidelines... What's allowed, what isn't?

Thank you.

Wow so we are to the pont where you have to ask how bad you can get on here. What a low.

I'll give you a hint on your big words question.

1. Play nice or go play in another sandbox.
2. Don't piss off the staff.

Raymond (not staff, just using common sense)

Raymond - I was playing nice... I'm a moderator on several forums, and I'm the webmaster for another one... I know how these things go...

I have no problem with forums having rules and guidelines, but I like to know what they are, that's all I'm asking for... I've generally avoided highly controversial topics directly myself, and have gone out of my way to not poop in the sandbox. I was able to see the original thread before it was removed, and didn't see it as an attack or anything of the sort, thus I'm wondering what is or isn't allowed... I figured that was a perfectly legit query, it was not asked in anger or bitterness...

Good deal on the mod of other forums. I'm not saying you did anything wrong but you as a forum mod must know the huge task you've placed on Willow and the staff by asking how dirty we can play.

You and I both know they shouldn't have to deal with BS like that.

Raymond

Yes, I know that... But editing out a comment should never be taken lightly (And I know the admins don't do so). But the original comment in this thread, well, I've seen a LOT more offensive, spiteful, vengeful stuff that stays, even after this one was removed, that's why I was confused...

I guess what I'm saying was, I didn't think the original comment was "dirty", especially compared to some of the other stuff that's been allowed to stand, so it kinda caught me off guard and confused me.

And yes, I fully know that the short answer is "Whatever the hell I decide I wanna delete whenever I wanna delete it". Like I said, I fully understand how forums work, this isn't the Free Speech corner downtown, the 1st amendment does NOT apply to a privately run forum, I understand that...

Heck, the forums I run, not necessarily by my decision (They're forums for organizations that have full boards of directors, the moderators and site admins have to do what the directors decide) have fully banned _ANY_ mention of politics or religion at ALL. Period. End of story. One warning, then you're banned...

Part of what I was really liking here is that it was far more open then many other forums I frequent, with people able to discuss those topics. If that is to be stopped, then fine, so be it, but let's find out what that line is...

[Serk]

4.) The VRCC Bulletin Board does not allow any unlawful, harmful, threatening, sexually explicit, abusive, harassing, defamatory, vulgar, obscene, racial and/or ethnic slurs; hateful content; or otherwise objectionable material.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If the administrators followed this rule we wouldn't have this BS.

And that was my point about "What's the line?" The original content of this thread didn't come close to meeting the requirements of the above, IMHO... It was a very simple straight forward query. Politically barbed, yes, but not unlawful, harmful, threatening, etc...

Yes, many of the other discussions around the topic denigrated  into "abusive, harassing, defamatory" slug fests, that I won't argue, and those topics and posters should have been dealt with appropriately, no argument at all...

[Black Pearl's Captain]

Serk my whole point is that we should be mature enough to realize the limit HAS BEEN REACHED and staff has been pushed far enough. Do you understand what I mean?

You said you like this board more then the others because the others are to the point of overruled boredom?? If we have to be told right from wrong here then the fun will be gone here too. As Steve K said, we cross the line all the time and staff lets it slide. Believe it or not the staff likes to have fun to but when people can't use common sense they can no longer "play" and are forced to be "STAFF". Like I said, try to realize the line has been crossed, maybe not with just this one thread but all.

I would rather we all play reasonably nice rather then be slapped by staff. No fun in the BBS policeman rule with an iron delete key.

I'm not arguing with you Serk I'm actually just trying to save Willow from staff work. If we all play nice for a while he forgets very fast.

Raymond

[Serk]

Raymond,

I see what you're saying, it just totally caught me off guard. I feel kind of awkward having this discussion at all, since I pretty much ignored the VRCC for a good 5 years because I thought VRCC stood for Very Republican Christian Club... 

If this particular post was whacked not because of it's content on it's own, but to make a point that the whole political thing needed to be cooled off for a bit, then fine, so be it. If that's the case I understand actually...

[3fan4life]

From Rules of The Road: You acknowledge that you will not harass or threaten any message board participants. Other than that; passionate, opinionated debates and even arguments are what makes this forum worthwhile. If it's on your mind, then let it fly, just be cool about it, and don't say anything that you wouldn't say face to face. We are all friends here, and we should treat each other as such.  If you aren't sure what all this means, click here to read Rules of the Road.

I respect Willow and the other members of the Admin staff.... I wouldn't want to be in their shoes!!!!


Long hours and little pay....... Oh wait that's, "NO PAY"!


There have been alot of political threads here lately for whatever reason.....

But you can only argue so much about tires and oil.


I do think that the name calling is childish and immature.......


Lively debate can be informative and fun.....

But face it, if you resort to name calling you may as well acknowledge that you've lost.


The best rule of thumb is:
 
DON'T SAY ANYTHING TO ANYONE HERE THAT YOU WOULDN'T SAY TO THEIR FACE.


Remember, we are a family here.

And even though you may not always like some of the people in your family, They are still part of your family.


And Sometimes with FAMILY you just have to AGREE TO DISAGREE.

[Willow]

Willow - So, now that the precedent for censorship of political discussion has been established, please at least put up some clear guidelines... What's allowed, what isn't?

Thank you.

My wise life partner tells me to take a deep breath before I type.  That's good advice but I don't always take it.

I just busted my throttle sleeve attempting a last minute repair so I won't likely be going to Pennsylkvania this weekend.  Consider my state of mind as you read.

I have no intent to censor political discussion.  I do get really tired of dealing with alternating political diatribes that have reached the level denigration and vitriol.   I also get weary of repeated post of a political nature which appear to be intended to do nothing but goad those of opposing views into that type of exchange.  Oftentimes a feel a bit like a third grade teacher on the playground unabvle to determine who threw the first punch.

The post I removed was, it appeared to me, another of the "I have evidence that Barrack Obama is not an American citizen" assertions.  For the love of all that is good, the election was over seven months ago.  I simply refuse to believe that the repeated posting of one divisive political entry after another is done because a member actually believes that he or she is going to miraculously enlighten those of opposing viewpoints.

Okay, just so you know, while I was typing this response, I went into the garage to fetch my glasses and it sudddenly occured to me that I have a Shadow parked directly behind my Valkyrie.  The Shadow is now missing a throttle sleeve.

I guess what jerks my chain the most is that I was starting to catch up to Raymond in the number of posts and now you have goaded him into these many responses so all my gains have been flushed away.

To answer your question very directly, yes, it is at my discretion whenever I have simply had enough.  I stated long ago that whether or not a post violates the listed rules if it appears undeniably to me as if the poster is on a campaign to simply "stir the pot," or pick a fight, I will remove the post.

You all be safe and I'll see you down the road.         

[PharmBoy]

I think that a nice long ride would do us all a lot of good.  I'm leaving in a few hours to go back to Texas to visit a few life-long friends and clear my head a bit.  Probably will put about 1200 miles on the clock by Saturday.  A nice swift ride down the blacktop just at sunup really clears out the cobwebs and and gets one breathing deeply again. 

This club is the only thing that I have joined in all my adult life that has gotten me so involved.  There are a lot of good people here and none of us agree on every subject.  The rules here are fairly wide open to personal interpretation by the staff.  I did not see the censored post so I am unable to comment on that.  However, someone has to be in charge here and I sure do not want it to be me.  I think that we have been allowed a pretty wide birth in our comments here.  Some of which have been rather pointed and inflammatory, and I am no less guilty than many others.  Let me make one thing very clear.  I hate censorship with a passion.  However, in some settings such as we have here, it is sometimes necessary to retain the tranquility of the group.  There are a couple of members here whose post I will not read because I know that I will want to post a scathing reply.  Some of you may feel the same about me.  That is OK!  But you can bet your last buck on one thing.  I would not say one word here that I would not say to your face.  A good discussion or difference of opinion now and then is healthy for a group.  That way we can all get to see the different sides of an issue.  There is always two sides to any story and usually many more than that.  So, let's all take a short vacation and a long ride and reflect on what is really important here and why we all show up on this forum...JTL

[Cliff]

On the postive note:   Great idea on the cannibalism!

[Strong Eagle]

OK, Willow... I will do my very best to hold all discussions in the third person and leave out any personal judgments about the poster's gray matter or lack thereof.

[Willow]

On the postive note:   Great idea on the cannibalism!

 

[Willow]

OK, Willow... I will do my very best to hold all discussions in the third person and leave out any personal judgments about the poster's gray matter or lack thereof.

Thanks, Eagle and all others.

[Black Pearl's Captain]

Willow - So, now that the precedent for censorship of political discussion has been established, please at least put up some clear guidelines... What's allowed, what isn't?

Thank you.

My wise life partner tells me to take a deep breath before I type.  That's good advice but I don't always take it.

I just busted my throttle sleeve attempting a last minute repair so I won't likely be going to Pennsylkvania this weekend.  Consider my state of mind as you read.

I have no intent to censor political discussion.  I do get really tired of dealing with alternating political diatribes that have reached the level denigration and vitriol.   I also get weary of repeated post of a political nature which appear to be intended to do nothing but goad those of opposing views into that type of exchange.  Oftentimes a feel a bit like a third grade teacher on the playground unabvle to determine who threw the first punch.

The post I removed was, it appeared to me, another of the "I have evidence that Barrack Obama is not an American citizen" assertions.  For the love of all that is good, the election was over seven months ago.  I simply refuse to believe that the repeated posting of one divisive political entry after another is done because a member actually believes that he or she is going to miraculously enlighten those of opposing viewpoints.

Okay, just so you know, while I was typing this response, I went into the garage to fetch my glasses and it sudddenly occured to me that I have a Shadow parked directly behind my Valkyrie.  The Shadow is now missing a throttle sleeve.

I guess what jerks my chain the most is that I was starting to catch up to Raymond in the number of posts and now you have goaded him into these many responses so all my gains have been flushed away.

To answer your question very directly, yes, it is at my discretion whenever I have simply had enough.  I stated long ago that whether or not a post violates the listed rules if it appears undeniably to me as if the poster is on a campaign to simply "stir the pot," or pick a fight, I will remove the post.

You all be safe and I'll see you down the road.         

I foten thought you were replying just to pad your post count but I never knew for sure. Now I know. All those " " were just for the post count.

I'm still 13 ahead mr. willer at currnet count. and mine are all first class quality BS posts.

Raymond

[MP]

 
MP

[Black Pearl's Captain]

MP

 

[stormrider]

I do get really tired of dealing with alternating political diatribes that have reached the level denigration and vitriol.   I also get weary of repeated post of a political nature which appear to be intended to do nothing but goad those of opposing views into that type of exchange.  

The post I removed was, it appeared to me, another of the "I have evidence that Barrack Obama is not an American citizen" assertions.  For the love of all that is good, the election was over seven months ago.  I simply refuse to believe that the repeated posting of one divisive political entry after another is done because a member actually believes that he or she is going to miraculously enlighten those of opposing viewpoints.  I stated long ago that whether or not a post violates the listed rules if it appears undeniably to me as if the poster is on a campaign to simply "stir the pot," or pick a fight, I will remove the post.

You all be safe and I'll see you down the road.        

This was Willow's remarks. Don't know why the quote thing didn't work.


Willow my brother, you know I love you and wouldn't put up with as much as you do. However, I don't really care what those with opposing views think. I know I've been suckered into some of their thoughtless dribble. Sorry if it is interpreted as trying to even the score. They seem however to care what I think from some of the blantantly negative remark's I've recieved. I actually care about the direction our country is headed, $10+ trillion in debt,and just trying to inform for those that may care as I do and there seems to be others from the responses I read not just to my posts but topics started by others. Like I always say, "if you don't like the message, don't stone the messanger." Exekiel 33.

BTW there is news today that Obama recieved a scholorship as a foriegn student while at a US college. And there are currently 14 lawsuits trying to find out the truth about his citizenship and the Supreme Court is studying the issue. So at least I know that I'm not the only person concerned about what appears to be a violation of the Constitution. If it was John McCain, or Ron Paul, I'd still be concerned. And I am not making any suppositions. Just reporting. And, I don't care who is president, they've all been bought with fiat money and will spend it like there is no tomorrow. And the only fire I'm trying to stir is for the cause of freedom. We consider ourselves free, but if you read the Bible, it says, "to owe no man,". If we owe someone we are in a way subject to that person or entity. If our elected leaders are selling out our birthright, then I'm pretty pissed. Sorry this isn't the place to post about matters pertaining to freedom which I thought bikers were all about.

I'll go play somewhere else.

[BamaJack]

BTW there is news today that Obama recieved a scholorship as a foriegn student while at a US college.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/occidental.asp

[Strong Eagle]

BTW there is news today that Obama recieved a scholorship as a foriegn student while at a US college. And there are currently 14 lawsuits trying to find out the truth about his citizenship and the Supreme Court is studying the issue.

See,  here's the problem as I see it stormrider.  You say there is news today that Obama received a scholarship as a foreign student but provide absolutely no citation or facts to back it up.  This is very typical of the groups that continue to try and smear Obama.  I've done a google search on the topic.  What you end up with is dozens of websites running a rumor campaign, almost all carrying the exact same language from a story alleged put out by the AP and run in the Arizona Sentinel.

The story alleges that an organization called the Americans for Freedom of Information has copies of Obama's transcript.  It further alleges that Obama went to school as Barry Soetoro.  Now here's the kicker... if you google Americans for Freedom of Information, you cannot find it.  It doesn't exist.  I challenge you to find it.  I'll bet you money.  I'll pay you money if you find it.

In short... it's a typical internet whisper campaign... spreading of false information... picked up over and over again... all done without so much as one shred of evidence.  And here is the best part of all... this 'story' was released on April 1... April Fools!!!

As for the birth certificate lawsuits... any ninny can file any lawsuit they want... it doesn't mean it has merit.  And in this case, ninny is the operative word.  Besides that fact that the state of Hawaii has verified his birth in Hawaii, there were newspaper announcements of Obama's birth in two Honolulu papers in August 1961.  One could only believe this stuff if a grand conspiracy is put in place.  It requires the complicity of Hawaii state officials.  It requires forethought to put in those announcements.  It requires that a massive coverup occur all of Obama's life just so that he can become president 47 years later.  Is this realistic?  No, it is not... and yet, people refuse to let it go.

  

[Bagger John - #3785]

Is this realistic?  No, it is not... and yet, people refuse to let it go.

In other news: P.T. Barnum continues to sell tickets to the egress ...

[stormrider]

So I stand corrected on Obama. I usually do more research. And when in conversation with others, I always state it doesn't really matter who is president, our debt continues to grow. Now to the national debt. Anyone have an idea how much it is today? Bush took on a 5.6 trillion debt and grew it to 10.7 trillion. About 500 billion a year. Obama has out done him with an inheritance of 10.7 and now at 11.4 trillion. About a 100 billion a month in debt. The all love spending your future. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

[franco6]

         YES!!!!!!

[Hotrodwing]

NO THANKS KEEP THE CHANGE

[Strong Eagle]

Is this realistic?  No, it is not... and yet, people refuse to let it go.

In other news: P.T. Barnum continues to sell tickets to the egress ...

       

[RedValk]

what really 'amuses me'......is after years of Bush bashing by one side...with MUCH of their claims UNFOUNDED or exaggerated...............now............it's happening to the OTHER side..................and of course, the 'fans' of the current administration like it..............and are amused by all the bashing..........about as much as the "fans from the other side" liked it........over the last 8 years.

Isn't "justice" funny?    Or..........perhaps.....ironic.........

a good friend of mine WHO READS THIS BOARD (but shall go unnamed)....tells me all the time.........in politics ....the pendulum swings to ONE SIDE.........TO FAR..........and aggravates the masses into wanting change....but then.......UNFORTUNATELY.........it swings to the OTHER SIDE..........often too far..........and eventually, the masses will scream for change again............

and on it goes............8 years with CLinton................screaming.............8 years with Bush.............screaming...............now.............

and the pendulum just keeps swinging. If only we could reach a HAPPY MEDIUM....as that ONE FRIEND KEEPS SAYING TO ME........

FRIEND.........are ya' reading this  

[stormrider]

I agree whole heartedly. Reach a happy medium and spend within our means. We have to do it within our household which is getting harder all the time. I for the life of me cannot understand why we allow the outlandish spending to continue. Maybe someone can explain and show me the light at the end of the tunnel. When will the deficit spending end and we revert to real money? Maybe House Bill HR 1207 will provide some answers if it is ever signed by the pres.

[Scanner]

Stormrider - "'ll go play somewhere else."

.....that lasted for three hours?