When is a child old enough to ride on the back?

[Serk]

I realize I'm asking a biased audience, but I also figure ya'll have been there, done that...

When is a child old enough to take short trips on the back?

My daughter turns 6 next week. I wanted to get her a helmet so I could take her on short jaunts around town and get her used to riding.

Now, years ago, I distinctly remember my wife saying she'd be okay with this when our daughter was big enough to reach the pegs (Check) and was in school (Check)... Now... She's sayins "Maybe when she's 8"...

Hell, when she's 8 I was hoping to have her on her own (dirt) bike!

So... Am I being unreasonable? Is she being unreasonable? What do ya'll think, and what arrangements with spouses have ya'll made about children on the pillion?

Thanks!

[Houdini]

My .02¢ is your wife is being unreasonable.  I started giving my girls rides at five.  My current five year old loves to go on rides and her feet cannot reach the pegs yet; she rides with her feet on my saddlebags.

My wife loves to ride and actively supports me in taking my daughters for rides so I didn't have to make any arrangements.

Sit down with your wife and remind her of the talk years ago.  Ask her why she is resisting now.  My guess is she is worried for the child's safety and maybe all she needs is a little reassurance.

Chuck

[Serk]

Oddly enough, my wife rides too (ST1300)... But, unfortunately, I know exactly where the resistance is coming from - Her mom... Her mom loathes motorcycles and anything to do with 'em...

Oh, and her mom just left from a 1.5 month visit... I waited until her mother was gone to broach the subject, but I evidently didn't wait long enough...

That's the only thing I can think of. She knows I'm a safe rider. I've got over 85,000 miles racked up on my Valkyrie alone, it's not like I'm a new driver or anything...

 

[Wanderer]

Wow, six already! Time flys, Brian.

In Texas, the pillion must be able to have both feet planted on their foot pegs to be legal. An apparatus I have seen is a wide belt that goes around the rider's waste with a small handle bar set for the little one to hold on to. Keeps her upper body balanced.

Sounds like you have bigger issues than the Texas state codes. Good luck! ~Jeff

[Serk]

Jeff,


Yup, they grow fast! Here she was just a few weeks ago getting ready for her very first day of school:

[RainMaker]

An apparatus I have seen is a wide belt that goes around the rider's waste

Jeff - How big a belt do you need for a rider's waste?  Guess it depends on the rider, his diet, etc.

On the other question, I've had both my sons on my motorcycle when they were 6.  The only problem was that the first one fell asleep and almost fell off.  So, make the rides short.  I think that if I had it to do over, I would not take them again.  I paid so much attention to them that I'm sure I took attention off of the road, which could be deadly.

RainMaker

[Flyboy]

My boys have been riding since the age of 6 and 8, when I bought my bike. I just always told them, "If I pat you on the leg you just pat me on the back, and I will know you are awake." When they did not tap me back, then I shook the crap out of them to get their attention.

As far as the Mother-in -law's influence and objections, they don't mean squat. I told my mom and inlaws that their opinions are not valid untill they start making deposits into my personal bank account on a weekly basis. If I ask for their opinion it is one thing, but unsolisited advise is not welcome. If they press, there is no grand children for them to visit. After all they belong to me and I do controll them as long as they are still under my roof. It really was amazing to see the change in their additudes. I know that they are just trying to watch out for them, but for God's sake, they are MY own flesh and blood, I AM THE LAST PERSON WHO WANTS THEM INJURED!!!

Just my $.02 on how I handled the same problem. Now Paula rides and carries a kid too.

[Houdini]

I agree with Flyboy, I have told some inlaws that my kids are 'my kids' and I will raise them how I want regardless of what they think.  Life became easier for them after that talk. 

If your wife is a rider she should understand.  My girls love to ride with me and cry if I am going alone and not taking them.  I wish I had the time and opportunity to take them out more; we always have fun and interesting conversations every time we go out.  I also need to get another headset so they can use the pink helmet that I bought for them that they never get to use because there is no comm set in it.  I haven't had any problem with them going to sleep because we talk, talk, talk.

I've seen those "safety belts"; I would only use one if I had a bike with no sissy bar.

http://www.little-riders.com/Ridingbelt.html

Chuck

[SideCar]

STRONG PERSONAL VIEWS. BE WARNED. READ AT YOUR OWN RISK.

My concern for my kids is the falling off issue.  Once and they are dead or mangled and I would never forgive myself.  There is zero room for error.  Like Rainmaker said, they can easily fall asleep on what you and I would consider a relatively short trip.  They are also likely not to hold on all the time at that age.  Pretty short attention span. And, what if they just aren't holding on tightly when you have to make an emergency maneuver or stop?  All it takes is one second of inattention and I don't know about your kids attention spans, but mine have short ones - really short ones.

I have been a motorcycle addict all my life and want to share that with my kids.  But, I'm not willing to take many chances with their lives (beyond the already risky nature of riding a bike in traffic).  That's why when my son started riding with me at age 3, I had him strapped to me with the Child's Riding Belt http://www.childridingbelt.com that I purchased through Ma's Cycles at http://www.mascycles.com/eshopprod_cat_169-16247_product_63657.Childs_Riding_Belt.htm. It ain't cheap, but it's under $200 and that's inexpensive peace of mind.  He was strapped to me and couldn't fall off unless I did. (Yes, there are still risks, but my biggest concern has been and is, one of my kids falling off.)  I can't recommend this enough.

If I didn't have the sidecar, the Belt would still be getting a lot of use.  It still gets some and will for years for my daughter.  My 7 year old son may still get it stuck on him for a longer ride if he wants to go on the bike instead of the sidecar.  We went on a warm ride to Waxahachie a few weeks back and he was ready to fall asleep on the way back after a full day down there in the sun, so he went in the sidecar and Julie got on the bike.

So, I've found a couple of ways to reduce the risk.  The Belt is by far the least expensive and we have had a lot of fun rides using it even though it doesn't look very cool.  As a result, Trey has spent most of his life (literally) riding with me and Shelby (my 3 year old) is already starting to ride behind me with the Belt.  The sidecar has also been a blast and makes lots of rides even easier. And, now Trey does have a dirt bike so we're starting that adventure. 

Them's my 2 cents and I think if you get and use the Belt, your wife will be more relaxed about things, but may still be concerned since motorcycling is dangerous.


ps Wanderer's statement about legality in Texas is one I've heard and seen before, but I'm not personally aware of any law in Texas that regulates age or leg length.  That doesn't mean there isn't one and Wanderer is a pretty smart guy, but I haven't seen a law like that.

[Houdini]

My thoughts on those belts are if I do crash I don't want to end up crushing or suffocating my 50 pound daughter under my 190 pounds because we are lashed together.  If my child becomes unresponsive to my questions it is time to stop.  If she cannot stay awake it is time to sit awhile.  I generally only run them around town or take one of them out on a dinner run anyway.  If I ever decide to take one of them across country I MAY consider one.

I've been riding bikes since 1974.  I enjoy taking all three of my girls out on rides and plan on continuing to do so.  I personally do not feel the need to lash them to me but I also don't feel the need to go out and scrape pegs while any of my family members are on the back.  I ride as responsibly as possible when someone’s life and limbs are depending on me.

Chuck

[DrewDanube]

I'm glad this topic has come up.  I had decided that when my daughter was 4, she'd at least get a ride around the block for her birthday...however...even then I'd have to buy her a helmet...may as well strap her on and go a bit farther!

[LemonDrop]

My son, the sheriff's deputy, has been riding his kids on my valk since I got it in 2003, at first putting them between him and the tank, with them hugging the tank, holding on to the Valkyrie emblem, and holding their head up like a turtle.  Now they get to ride on the pillion, but still cannot reach the pegs.  They are always short rides, although the last ones were about 30 min +/-.  they are now 8 and 9.  They love it, and always have, and his wife supports him in it (as long as he doesn't buy his own bike, and I don't visit too often).   

[Dag]

My daughter has been riding with me since she was two.
She is four now, and it's a difficult age when she is a too big to sit in front of me, and a too small to sit behind because she cannot reach the pegs. Now she rides most with her mother on her trike.
I bought the Child Riding Belt last year, but I have not used it yet.
I have mounted communication in her helmet (Scalarider Teamset) so we can talk to each other when we're on rides. Then, I am sure that she wont fall asleep. My daughter "helps" me a lot in the garage with maintenance, polishing, etc. She loves it, and if anybody comes too close to my bike she tells them; "DONT TOUCH"
I think thats the new name for my Valk....

My daughter and I 2years ago






This summer

[Choirboy]

After much thought and some research.....the state of Texas says:

TRC §545.416.

RIDING ON MOTORCYCLE.

(a) An operator of a motorcycle shall ride on the permanent and regular seat attached to the motorcycle.

(b) An operator may not carry another person on the motorcycle, and a person who is not operating the motorcycle may not ride on the motorcycle, unless the motorcycle is designed to carry more than one person.

(c) If the motorcycle is designed to carry more than one person, a passenger may ride only on the permanent and regular seat, if designed for two persons, or on another seat firmly attached to the motorcycle behind or to the side of the operator.

I saw no mention of reaching the pegs.......so gas tank rides are not legal.....also anyone under 21 must wear a DOT approved helmet. Hopefully it is the correct size. In the general section they also comment that riders should wear the same safety gear that the driver does...helmet, eye protection, etc.

Now for my personal opinion. I'm old enough to accept the risks associated with motorcycling and hopefully will be able to continue to do so without mishap. I know parents feel they have the right to decide what is best for their children, and to a large extent I agree with that, in this case I wish there was more guidance. After reading some of the other posts and some from other sites where the subject was brought up, there is more risk than we adults might be considering. My thinking is that if the child is able to sit comfortably and securely on the pillion, they have a fitted helmet and safety gear (jacket, jeans, sturdy shoes, boots preferable and eye protection) and they are mature enough to absorb the pre-ride safety information, I would be ok with them enjoying a short ride somewhere in the country or in a controlled environment like a subdivision. As for children falling asleep, this is a real concern, I've known grown adults who have been mesmerized by the steady vibration and staccato of the exhausts. Why take that much risk, plenty of time for rides when they are teenagers.     

[SideCar]

Dag, I sure know what you mean about the "help".  Shelby was helping me change oil just last week on the bike and a truck. It takes longer, but I consider it all fun - well, almost all.

[Houdini]

Dag, where did you get that riding suit your little girl is wearing?  I would like to get some of those for my little ones; it is hard to find riding gear for youngsters.

Chuck

[Dag]

The brand is JOFAMA. Same as HALVARSSONS. (Swedish)
They dont make this suit anymore, but the have jackets and pants.
Now and than I have seen used suits for sale. If you want I can keep my eyes open...

[Dag]

I found this picture on another board... frightening

[Curtis_2Valks]

My Dad was a fire fighter and I guess because of the carnage he witnessed on the job, I never had a motorcyle of my own as long as I lived under his roof.  Now you notice I said "of my own".  That doesn't mean I didn't ride.  Maybe just the natural rebellion of a kid, or maybe specifically because it was "verboten" I begged a ride on any and all motorcycles I encountered.  Consequently, instead of being introduced to the things necessary for safety by my Dad, I learned out on the street in an uncontrolled environment........on motorcycles of which I knew nothing about how they were maintained.  At age 12 or 13 my cousin turned me loose on his Yammy 360.  By age 14 I was tearing up the public streets on my best friend's brother-in-law's CB500 four.  In both cases I was on way more bike than I had any business on (I weighed 120 when I graduated high school).  Not only physically, but mentally I was not mature enough to be doing that.

I offer that up just in case there is a lesson to be learned by someone.  Maybe your wife can see that her and your example of what an investment of time and effort it takes to be a safe rider and keep your machines in safe condition (proper pre-ride checks and such).  If your daughter is engaged in the riding process that will happen.  If the motorcycles are just something Mom and Dad does, it may never sink in.

As for mine (now 24 and 25) I put them on my '75 Gold Wing a few times at age one and three (little one in front) back in '85.  As far as the law was concerned, I didn't bother to check.  Heck I was still in rebellion I guess, since the motorcycle was not licensed, inspected or insured and I didn't have a license.  See????  I didn't learn properly from my Dad like I could have.  Of course this (the kids on the bike) was strictly "verboten" by wifey so I always did it when she wouldn't find out.  Of course she found out (let that be a lesson to any and all as well LOL).  May be one reason I was bikeless from shortly after that until 2002.

My son and I ride together quite a bit now.  This year we rode the Valks down to Ft. Myers FL to see my daughter.  My son was taught by me and is a very mature and responsible rider.  I have observed him riding within his ability and good judgment when it would have been "cooler" for him to hot dog a bit.  His good judgement is just as important as his riding skills and I have always stressed that to him.  Hopefully you will get the chance soon to begin passing on the benifit of your long experience to your daughter.

Curtis

[Lyn-Del]

When in doubt, since I've been known to travel a bit    I rely on the AMA website.  I figure they've got a vested interest in keeping up with it.

Texas is at http://home.ama-cycle.org/amaccess/laws/result.asp?state=tx

[Wanderer]

When in doubt, since I've been known to travel a bit    I rely on the AMA website.  I figure they've got a vested interest in keeping up with it.

Texas is at http://home.ama-cycle.org/amaccess/laws/result.asp?state=tx

"Passenger Footrest Not Required"
I was wrong - AGAIN! I would still be blocking up those foot rest some way if the kiddo couldn't reach.

Glad to hear you are pulling things back together, Phyllis. Thanks for the updates. ~Jeff

[Daniel Meyer]

I asked my Dad how he decided when...my earliest memories are of riding on the back of his machine.

Wouldn't trade those memories of that early time for the world by the way...

His comment, delivered very matter-of-factly, "I'm pretty sure it was when I wouldn't need bungee cords to hold you on."

[Hollywood]

Our grandson started riding with Redneck when he was 3, and rode in front with his feet on the tank. Now he's 10 and can reach the pegs on the passenger seat. But something that will help esp. since they can't sit back against the sissy bar is a backpack stuffed with a blanket or such,  resting against the backrest, strapped on with a bungee, to give them something to rest against. My friend Mary has ridden her son on her Harley for many years, and this is what she used too. I would NEVER belt or attach a child to the rider, for the fact mentioned, if you go down, they go down possibly under you! I had this discussion with many long time riders and none of them thought that the passenger should be attached to the rider in any way. If you can discuss with the child what they should do in case the motorcycle goes down( you should not be afraid to have this discussion, they need to be informed too) then they are old enough to ride on the passenger seat. Reaching the pegs makes them more stable and comfortable. A full faced helmet is best, and protective gear a must. As far as falling asleep, I know adults that still do too! If the child gets sleepy( you'll know!) stop[ somewhere and let them run around for a while. Also, let lunch or dinner be on your way back from the ride, so it'll be easier to keep them awake if they are hungry!

my 1.5 cents worth!   

[Rocketman]

I found this picture on another board... frightening

How about this one?  (Yes, we went on a ride like that.  No, the engine wasn't running.  No, the ride didn't leave the driveway.)

[SideCar]

Still love that pic.  Hope you get your bike up and running again soon (as well as everything else down there).