Old school spark check -- UPDATE - FINALLY FIXED! I'm sure NOW!!!

[Tx Bohemian]

Are you able to see a spark from the plug wires if you pull the wire and stick a screwdriver in it and "almost ground" it?  You know, hold it about a 1/8 - 1/4" away from ground.

(of course the key is on and hitting the start button)

[CajunRider]

Just pull the wire and put another plug in it.

While grounding the plug, of course.    

[sandy]

Be careful of the electricity stuff. It hurts when you get it on you and it's hard to wash off!!

[Tx Bohemian]

Ok, thanks for the reply guys.

However I still didn't get my question answered:

Are you able to see a spark?  Or should you be able to see a spark?


I'm fighting the same problem as I always had with this bike.  When the temps get real cold, like down to 55, it will not start.  Cranks but will not start.

Done been through the "choke" issues these bikes have, it's not that.
When the lever is engaged the enricher plungers are fully depressed, and after a bit of cranking you can smell gas.

And the "full battery charge" issues.
It has a new battery and it's on a battery tender all the time it's not running.
Hook it up to a non-running car battery and still won't start.
When cranking to start, without hooked to a car battery, the battery still has like 10.5-10.7volts.

Changed clutch switch, kickstand switch, both handlebar switches, ignition switch, and the ICM.
Cleaned grounds and all the conections I could find associated with the starting system.

Once it started I pulled a plug wire and that booger jumps a good 1/2" as it's running.
However even after it started I shut it off and checked the spark when cranking  there is nothing.

'99 Standard.

[Bone]

I think 10.7 is to low but the car battery should have worked.
55º mine starts without a choke, 98 Tourer.

[Blackduck]

You should see spark  while crankoing, no spark no start.
Is it a stock trigger wheel? Check the clearance between the pick up coils and the trigger wheel, it should be close but not touching.
It maybe a faulty pickup coil.
Cheers Steve

[Tx Bohemian]

You should see spark  while crankoing, no spark no start.
Is it a stock trigger wheel? Check the clearance between the pick up coils and the trigger wheel, it should be close but not touching.
It maybe a faulty pickup coil.
Cheers Steve

It is an aftermarket wheel and yeah I was looking in the manual and saw the sensors.  Need to check them.
Also the manual states there should be a "fat blue spark" which I don't see.

How would temperture affect the clearance? Isn't that a mechanical setting?

I need to get in there and check it anyway.  The PO had it changed but doesn't remember what was put in.  I put in an Interstate ICM and need to make sure it's not too advanced.

[Blackduck]

Temperature should have very little to no effect on the clearance.
Just I seem to remember somewhere in past postings about problems with wheels and not firing properly. Think it was to do with the profile of the teeth.
Someone may chime in with more info.
Cheers Steve.

[Gryphon Rider]

I have always needed to use a little bit of throttle (turned 1/8" at the grip) to start when using the choke.

[Gryphon Rider]

When the temps get real cold, like down to 55, it will not start.

 
Your "real cold" at 55° is just as funny to me as our "real hot" at 85° would be to you!

[Mondo Limbo]

Just ran into the same problem.  You need a new battery.  This engine cranks over so easily, it doesn't take much - but - when it cranks your battery voltage is dropping so low it's not enough volts to power the ignition module.

Try a jumper cable and see if it starts right up.

[Tx Bohemian]

When the temps get real cold, like down to 55, it will not start.

 
Your "real cold" at 55° is just as funny to me as our "real hot" at 85° would be to you!

Glad you got that and knew it was a joke.
I posted that before and got a whole plethora of "that's not cold, I ride in the 20s/30s all the time" type posts.

[Tx Bohemian]

Just ran into the same problem.  You need a new battery.  This engine cranks over so easily, it doesn't take much - but - when it cranks your battery voltage is dropping so low it's not enough volts to power the ignition module.

Try a jumper cable and see if it starts right up.

Thanks, however 5th post down describes how I got a new battery and it's on a charger (minder) and how jumping from a car doesn't help.

Been fighting this for a few years now.  Shows up once the temps drop.

[saddlesore]

Is it possible that the plug wires are faulty? Or the coils?  If you have a timing light with inductive pickup just hook up to the wires to check. 
I did that on my gold wing.  One bad wire and had to replace all coils and spark plug wires.

[Patrick]

You should have spark regardless of temp.. As said if you attach another sparkler and hold it to a good ground and spin the engine you be able to see the spark..
Generally when one of these monsters doesn't start when cold,, its a defective battery or connection.. But, you're sure thats not the problem..
I'm wondering if you're having a PG [pulse generator] going open in the cold weather..
There was some issue years ago about the trigger wheel configuration.. I didn't like the shape of the teeth on the aftermarket wheels either.. The gap should be in the .018" range or even closer.. It really isn't adjustable,, but,, can be if needed.. A file can be a friend.. I've reduced the gap on some aftermarket wheels..

[Mondo Limbo]

Are you sure you got a good connection when you tried to jump it with a car battery?  Might be hard to tell if it was cranking without it.  The reason I ask is, this just happened to me.

I guess I had a warning sign that I ignored for months.  It used to start right up when I'd crank it, the engine would start running while I was still on the starter, but then it seemed not to start running until I let off the starter switch.  It cranked so well I didn't think much of it.  But when a cold front came in last week I got stranded.  It started right up coming out of the garage where it wasn't cold, and I drove it to work.  At lunch, after it was sitting out in the cold (not that cold, but colder than it's been), it cranked and cranked just fine, but no spark, would not start.  I figured how can it be the battery when it cranks so well?  I came back the next day with a few tools and the original ignition module figuring maybe my Dyna went out.  I tried to start it as is, no luck, just cranked and cranked.  But when I put a jumper cable on it started immediately.  Drove home, took the battery to the store and it checked out "marginal".  Got a new one, dropped it in, no problem, it starts like it used to.  I'm guessing now that what was happening was that for months the voltage was dropping too low as it cranked, and it wouldn't start until I let go of the starter switch.  But when it got colder the voltage didn't come up enough even when I let the starter off, at least not quick enough.

By the way - the old battery showed 13.2 volts just sitting there and would crank the motor easily, and the new battery still shows 12 volts even at crankling load.

Just trying to help.

[Grumpy]

I would really suspect the trigger wheel, some of the aftermarket wheels were very notorious for having problems. The tabs that pass the pickup coils were not wide enough to create a good pulse. I changed several that were the root of spark problems.

[Tx Bohemian]

I would really suspect the trigger wheel, some of the aftermarket wheels were very notorious for having problems. The tabs that pass the pickup coils were not wide enough to create a good pulse. I changed several that were the root of spark problems.

This will be my next venture to fix this thing.  I wanted to see what trigger wheel was put in anyway as the PO didn't know (it was done at a rally long time ago).

Grumpy, you didn't notice if the spark issues were during colder weather by chance?

I see there is a stock trigger wheel for sale on ebay for $35 plus shipping ($7-8 I think), is this a good price?
The sellers claim they are a $200 item.
I have never looked for a trigger wheel before.

[Grumpy]

I would really suspect the trigger wheel, some of the aftermarket wheels were very notorious for having problems. The tabs that pass the pickup coils were not wide enough to create a good pulse. I changed several that were the root of spark problems.

This will be my next venture to fix this thing.  I wanted to see what trigger wheel was put in anyway as the PO didn't know (it was done at a rally long time ago).

Grumpy, you didn't notice if the spark issues were during colder weather by chance?

I see there is a stock trigger wheel for sale on ebay for $35 plus shipping ($7-8 I think), is this a good price?
The sellers claim they are a $200 item.
I have never looked for a trigger wheel before.

Stock ones are available from Honda direct for $14.74.  Look under front cover - timing set, it is item #15  The cold weather symptoms was what I have run across, works ok in warm weather, but just not enough spark when cold.

[Tx Bohemian]

I would really suspect the trigger wheel, some of the aftermarket wheels were very notorious for having problems. The tabs that pass the pickup coils were not wide enough to create a good pulse. I changed several that were the root of spark problems.

This will be my next venture to fix this thing.  I wanted to see what trigger wheel was put in anyway as the PO didn't know (it was done at a rally long time ago).

Grumpy, you didn't notice if the spark issues were during colder weather by chance?

I see there is a stock trigger wheel for sale on ebay for $35 plus shipping ($7-8 I think), is this a good price?
The sellers claim they are a $200 item.
I have never looked for a trigger wheel before.

Stock ones are available from Honda direct for $14.74.  Look under front cover - timing set, it is item #15  The cold weather symptoms was what I have run across, works ok in warm weather, but just not enough spark when cold.

Holy Cow!!!

Thanks for the quick response!! And the valuable money savings information! Will  definately get one coming.   

[Tx Bohemian]

Ok, where do I find "Honda Direct"?

All comes up is "directlineparts".

And all I find is a trigger wheel for $30. I don't think it's factory.

Nor can I find "front cover---timing set".

Maybe it's this stupid computer...
Surely can't be me.

[Grumpy]

Ok, where do I find "Honda Direct"?

All comes up is "directlineparts".

And all I find is a trigger wheel for $30. I don't think it's factory.

Nor can I find "front cover---timing set".

Maybe it's this stupid computer...
Surely can't be me.

Here is the web site, just pick year and model, then select the parts area.

http://www.hdlparts.com/fiche_select1.asp?cat=Motorcycles&mfg=Honda

Front timing cover, then rotor pulser is the timing wheel.

[Tx Bohemian]

Fantastic, Thanks Grumpy

Bookmarked this site at work and at home!!

Got a "pulsar" coming.

[Tx Bohemian]

Put in a new stock trigger wheel last Friday.

47degs Saturday morn.  Bike cranked right up!!  WHOO HOO!!!
(usually you could bet your bottom dollar at 50-55degs this thing would not start)

This morning 37degs and again fired right up!!

I left the bike sitting on my table lift since Friday and it wasn't even plugged onto the battery minder so right now I'm quite confident (and really stoked!!) this did the trick.

The main, most noticible difference was the aftermarket TW had rounded "spikes" and the stock ones are squared off.
The stock ones might be a bit longer too, I didn't critque it that close.

THANKS GRUMPY!!! I owe you a couple drinks. 
For the repair info and the parts savings.

The PO didn't remember what advance trigger wheel was put in, turns out it was a 6* so with the Interstate CDI I have now it looks like it was too advanced anyway.
I haven't driven this thing yet but if I feel I need a little more kick I'll look into the temp sensor timing advance thing.

Thanks for all the help and suggestions guys!!

[Bone]

Feels good when you get results for your work.

[Grumpy]

Glad you are back up and running again.  I have only found one aftermarket trigger wheel that seemed to work and it was made by Air-lake, but they no longer make them. I have found most aftermarket trigger wheels, are rounded as you found, and some are out of round. Glad I was able to help.

[Tx Bohemian]

31 degrees this morning!! (how in the h*ll do ya'll people up north live in this stuff through the winter?!?!?)

Bike fired right up!!!

Cannot describe the feeling of confidence I have in this thing now.
It was getting to where I was really leary about going any far distance away from the house in fear it'd decide not to start.

Related side note:
Took it on a 100 mile, two up trip a couple of weeks ago and it runs very well for my tastes even with going from a 6* TW back to stock.  Couldn't really tell that much difference with my style of riding, of course I do have an Interstate CDI.

[Patrick]

Good, glad its running properly. I've had several arguments, errr, disagreements years ago regarding the shape of the teeth. Must be they were all southern bikes.

[Grumpy]

Good, glad its running properly. I've had several arguments, errr, disagreements years ago regarding the shape of the teeth. Must be they were all southern bikes.

Me too, and I am in the south. The after market wheels , most have a rounded profile. Stock ones are squared off, I think the stock ones just make a stronger pulse. Plus I have found a lot of after market ones are out of round. I have redone about 10 bikes, going back to stock due to cold starting problems.
I guess mother Honda had it right to start with.

[Patrick]

Grumpy, I agree. The advanced triggers were all the 'rage' back then. I fell for it too for a short period of time. I prefer the originals and if I want some advance a few swipes of a file is all thats needed.

[PhredValk]

AND you can start using 'regular' gas. Huge savings if you ride 10K miles + each year.
Fred.