howl from rear

[rayvin57]

Searched but came up with nothing, so here's a symptom that's looking for an answer from you more experienced Valk pilots.
Recently picked up an '03 Standard with 10k+ miles and I noticed a minor howling sound coming from the rear of the bike whenever I lean it over in a turn.  As soon as I straighten back up, the sound disappears.  It isn't a really loud howl, maybe 'howl' is too strong of a word, and it might be the nature of the beast, but I figured it wouldn't hurt to ask.  Possibly something to do with the rear wheel bearings or the u joint in the shaft drive?  Any help would be appreciated.

[Challenger]

Very possible it is your rear tire, They wear a strip in the middle and cup on the outside, when you lean into a corner your running on the cupped part of the tread. Pump up the pressure and see if takes a sharper lean to start making noise. My Bridgestone  started growling when leaned over at 3000 miles. Not discounting the bearings, just check it out before disassembling anything.

[Michvalk]

+1 on the tire. With so few miles I wouldn't think bearing first, but it could be.

[rayvin57]

I appreciate the quick responses, Michvalk and Challenger, and I'll throw some more pressure in the rear tire to see if it takes a steeper lean to get the growl.  The tires are Avon Venoms and only have about 4 hundred miles on them. 

[ryord]

I have a 2001 Standard with 17k on it, I have metzelers on it. It whines a little in turns, I think it is normal.

[biguglyman]

My e-3's howl at expressway speeds in long sweepers. Ain't no thang...

[Patrick]

Is this 'howl' happening on either turn ?? I also agree with the others.. But,, if it only happens on a left turn I'd be concerned about the left bearing..  I still athinkin' its the tire though..

[Chrisj CMA]

I appreciate the quick responses, Michvalk and Challenger, and I'll throw some more pressure in the rear tire to see if it takes a steeper lean to get the growl.  The tires are Avon Venoms and only have about 4 hundred miles on them.  

Most have found that considerably more pressure than the sticker on the bike calls for is best.  at least 40 in the front and 42-47 in the rear

[Jess from VA]

My guess is rear tire........... or the wife on the back seat. 

[rayvin57]

Although the rear tire explanation occurred to me at first, I ruled it out because I've never heard the sound on any of the other bikes I've had in my 41 years of riding.  Since I hear it to exactly the same degree when leaning left or right, that pretty much rules out the wheel bearings.  Just wanted to rule out anything in the final drive or u joint. 
Thanks for all the responses--I like this forum already.  All of you folks have a great Thanksgving, and Jess--I won't share your comment with my wife...    (although the noise does get louder with her on the back.)

[Jess from VA]

Really, a wheel bearing is more of a crunch, and Ujoint more of a clunk, both usually felt in the pegs/boards

Put 44-5lbs in the back tire and see if you get a change in turn noise.

[klb]

I bought a new 2001 standard and the tire roared when cornering from the first

mile until it got rear ended. My 99 standard does the same with the stock

style tire's ( Dunlop D-206 ) And now with avon cobra's does the exact same

thing just a little different pitch. Very normal. But in 01 with the new valk it bugged

the crap out of me until I rode a friend's valk. Was the same.

Also like Chrisj CMA say's mine are not quite as loud since I've learned from info

on the VRCC about tire pressure I now run 44 rear 42 front. stopped cupping also.

[Ricky-D]

Just as a note here:

You could go "darkside" and stop the whole noise issue with the rear tire.

Naturally the front tire can also be a "noise maker".

***

[RP#62]

Its your exhaust.  No, seriously.   On most bikes you can't hear the tire howl over the engine noise.  Not so on the Valkyrie.  When I first got mine, the first time I cranked it in a turn, I thought something was wrong, but it was just tire noise I wasn't used to hearing over the engine as on other bikes.
-RP

[Skinhead]

Go darkside.

[olddog1946]

I never heard any noise from my rear tire, as I went darkside before I removed my Cobra pipes, but I can hear the front make some noise when leaned over.
The higher pressure mentioned will indeed help with the noise but more importantly with tire wear.
DO NOT use the honda recommended pressures.

[rayvin57]

Wow, I was a bit hesitant to pump the rubber any higher than the recommended 33f/36r psi, but after seeing that the overwhelming consensus here is to go as high as 42f/44r, I'm heading out to the garage and try out 36f/38r.  My Avons are labeled with 41psi max, so I'm trying to use moderation here.
Why would Honda's rec pressures be so much lower than optimum for this bike?
Skinhead and Ricky-D: As far as going darkside, a good amount of people on the Rocket III forums have done it with decent results, the main benefit being cheaper rear tire prices.  I didn't do it on the Rocket, and I won't do it for the Valk because I like to lean into corners too much and it's worth the extra $$ to keep bike tires on my bikes.  Of course, that debate has been going on for almost as long as the oil preference debates.

[sandy]

With 10K on the bike and 400 miles on Venoms, I'd guess the tires are old already. Avon stopped Venoms 2 yeras ago. I ran my Venoms and now Cobras at 42F and 46R. My current Cobra rear has 19K on the tire and I still have plenty of tread left. 131K on the bike.

[Jess from VA]

My Avons are labeled with 41psi max

Manufacturer's recommended bike tire psi's have lawyers involved more than the tire companies, and are for the OE tires, which are always cheaper (price and quality) than the ones we most use in replacement.  Manual recommended psi is not relevant to upgrade replacement tires.

You should not exceed your tire's MAX PSI on the sidewall, but going up to it is no problem.  Ride may be a tad stiffer, but you get better longevity (usually), and smoother handling.  And probably less noise.

Funny, my preferred Metzler 880's have 50 MAX PSI printed on both the 150 fronts and 180 rears. And I ran 45 rear, 44 front, until I swapped to Goodyear rears which I run at 40, and I can lean and corner with any bike tire, at any speed, on any road (until hard parts drag).  

[Farther]

........... or the wife on the back seat.  

I agree with the tire diagnosis.  If I ever got the wife on my bike there would be a high speed whine at any angle!

[rayvin57]

With 10K on the bike and 400 miles on Venoms, I'd guess the tires are old already. Avon stopped Venoms 2 yeras ago. I ran my Venoms and now Cobras at 42F and 46R. My current Cobra rear has 19K on the tire and I still have plenty of tread left. 131K on the bike.

The PO told me he bought them new and had just had them mounted before he sold the Valk to me. They appear new, although there isn't any mold release crap on it or sprues sticking out.

[rayvin57]

My Avons are labeled with 41psi max


You should not exceed your tire's MAX PSI on the sidewall, but going up to it is no problem.  Ride may be a tad stiffer, but you get better longevity (usually), and smoother handling.  And probably less noise.

I might go up as high as 38f/40r, but I'll give them some time at 36f/38r.  Is cupping a problem at these pressures?  I'm sure that has a bit to do with specific tire compounds, etc.  And I don't really care about the howling noise, as long as I know it's not indicative of a problem.

[rayvin57]

........... or the wife on the back seat.  

I agree with the tire diagnosis.  If I ever got the wife on my bike there would be a high speed whine at any angle!

  ...coffee coming out of nose...

[old2soon]

The pressures yer experimenting with-to me anyway-are still a tad low for motorcycle specific tires on our Valkyries. I have D/S rear-Falken Ziex 512 in 205-65-16 @ 34 P S I and a Shinko S E 890 Journey up front @ 43-44 P S I. The Falken has a fairly rounded profile and i have leaned over far enough-without worry i might add-to drag hard parts. And yes i do realize D/S is not for everybody. I am a convert that is STILL waiting on my cookie.  Find that picture of Reb on the Dragon in Tn. from the fall color ride that Smokinjoe put on. Or a picture of Smokinjoe at speed on the Dragon. Both of those guys are D/S riders. Good luck with yer tire setup. Every one of us has gone thru looking for and finding our Sweet Spot.  And when you do find-you will DEFINITELY know it.  RIDE SAFE.

[rayvin57]

The pressures yer experimenting with-to me anyway-are still a tad low for motorcycle specific tires on our Valkyries. Good luck with yer tire setup. Every one of us has gone thru looking for and finding our Sweet Spot.  And when you do find-you will DEFINITELY know it.  RIDE SAFE.

Thanks, old2soon. That makes another member for much higher tire pressures--that's about 10 for it vs. a big fat 0 for recommended pressures.  Who am I to argue with experience?  I rode about 25 miles today at 36f/38r and I think I noticed less howl, although it was still there.  No real change in harshness of the ride.  Tomorrow I'll bump it up to 38f/40r and see how it goes from there.  Once again, thanks to all for the advice.
I figure most of you guys are checking out the football games right about now, half of you nodding out from the turkey and/or liquid refreshments...

[Jess from VA]

The PO told me he bought them new and had just had them mounted before he sold the Valk to me. They appear new, although there isn't any mold release crap on it or sprues sticking out.

Your tires may have sat in a warehouse for two years, then got sold and installed on your bike.

You can discover their build date (and age) by finding the numerical code also printed on the sidewalls.  Not that there should be anything wrong with 2yo tires.

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=11

Tire Identification Numbers are batch codes that identify the week and year the tire was produced.


In the example above:     DOT U2LL LMLR 5107    
 51    Manufactured during the 51st week of the year
 07    Manufactured during 2007

[rayvin57]

The PO told me he bought them new and had just had them mounted before he sold the Valk to me. They appear new, although there isn't any mold release crap on it or sprues sticking out.

Your tires may have sat in a warehouse for two years, then got sold and installed on your bike.

You can discover their build date (and age) by finding the numerical code also printed on the sidewalls.  Not that there should be anything wrong with 2yo tires.

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=11

Tire Identification Numbers are batch codes that identify the week and year the tire was produced.


In the example above:     DOT U2LL LMLR 5107    
 51    Manufactured during the 51st week of the year
 07    Manufactured during 2007

Hey, very useful tire info there, Jess.  Many thanks.  I now know the guy who sold me the Valk was lying about the tires, or he was sold some old ones.  The front tire was made in the 19th week of 2011, as it had the 4 digit code 1911 (not too bad), but the rear had the code 4404, which makes it about 8 years old.  It appears to be in excellent shape, however, so I'm not worried about it in the least.  Should I be?

[Jess from VA]

So long as it is not dry rotted and cracking along the sidewalls or tread and holding air, I would not be too worried.  But note old rubber can get hard and lose some of its grippiness (like in fast corners, and in the rain).  But some would be concerned more than I.   

[HayHauler]

If I were going out if town on a trip, I would  change it out in a minute.  Riding around town, I might keep riding it.  I wouldn't ride it with Moma on the back. 
Just my $.01874

3rd DS tire currently. 

Hay
Jimmyt

[valky1500]

It seems to me, whether it's a howl or scream, the under pressured motorcycle tire makes the most noise as it rides on the thickest of treads. As a matter of fact, the quietest tires are those dark side and with higher pressure. 

[rayvin57]

It seems to me, whether it's a howl or scream, the under pressured motorcycle tire makes the most noise as it rides on the thickest of treads. As a matter of fact, the quietest tires are those dark side and with higher pressure. 

Went for a long ride Friday, 2 up, tires pumped up the 38f/40r, and the howling is gone--or at least not noticeable.  I'm fine riding with the older rear as it really doesn't look old--not dry, no sidewalk cracking, etc.  Pluse we're just taking relatively local rides.  Definitely a harsher ride, of course, but the pluses far outweigh that.
I will consider going darkside when I change this one out.  Is there a consensus 'best tire' I should be looking at?
Once again, all great info here and thanks to all...

[Jess from VA]

Is there a consensus 'best tire' I should be looking at?


No.       Most use a 205 60-or-55 16

However, you do want a rounded edge and symmetrical tread pattern (not asymmetrical).  If you want the closest to motorcycle tire 180 ride height, you want a 60 over a 55, thou the difference is not a big deal, and some of the favored tires only come in 55s.  The 55 is actually a couple MMs wider than a 60, but you will want to do the nut-cage mod in any event, to avoid rubbing (esp with a passenger)....... unless you do a 195.

http://lifeisaroad.com/stories/2005/08/24/valkyrieRearFenderNutCageMod.html

I never used this, but many said the General Altimax HP gave the most bike-like ride of many of the choices.  It doesn't last as long as my Goodyear TripleTred (36K, and could have kept going)

You really should do some searching on old threads here, there's only a million of them..... and some actually discuss tires, and hardly argue about the flaming death thing at all.   

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=General&tireModel=Altimax+HP&partnum=06HR6AMAXHP&vehicleSearch=false&fromCompare1=yes

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Goodyear&tireModel=Assurance+TripleTred+All-Season&partnum=06VR6ATTAS&vehicleSearch=false&fromCompare1=yes

[valky1500]

205 55 16 is 1" shorter than OEM for more revs.
205 60 16 is same diameter as OEM tire for same revs.
205 65 16 is 1" larger diameter for less revs.


<----- uses 205 65 16 both bikes.