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melloyellow
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« on: November 23, 2012, 10:39:46 AM » |
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I have owned my 98 Valk standard for two years. It has been trouble free and ran GREAT! I laid her down in September. Most of the damage was to the right crash bar, handle bar, timing cover, timing sprocket, belt and throttle cables. I have replaced these items. I replaced both timing belts and set the timing. I also replaced the fuel petcock with a pingle valve and added an inline fuel filter. I got her started this morning. She runs very weak and is ticking like mad. My fist thought is to check the valve clearances. My question is, why would they have changed so drastically? Maybe my timing is off a tooth? Would that explain how it is running? Any thoughts?
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You can have just about anything, you just can't have everything!
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Red Diamond
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« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2012, 10:56:45 AM » |
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Recheck your belt installation for misalignment of the teeth, check for a pinched fuel line and make sure that inline filter is headed in the right direction (flow arrow). Reset the timing. If you replaced the throttle cables, make sure you didn't throw out the sync of the carbs, syncing them would be a good thing to do also.
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« Last Edit: November 23, 2012, 10:59:35 AM by Red Diamond »
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 If you are riding and it is a must that you keep your eyes on the road, you are riding too fast. |
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Jeff K
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« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2012, 11:53:22 AM » |
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Damaged belt and timing pulley? If that belt came off or jumped a few teeth during impact you have bent valves. I have also seen the cam driven through the bearing towers in the head.
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YoungPUP
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« Reply #3 on: November 23, 2012, 03:08:23 PM » |
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These are interference motors. Getting the cams out of time with the crank results in a spacial disagreement with the pistons and valves and results in bent or broken parts.
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Yea though I ride through the valley of the Shadow of Death I shall fear no evil. For I ride the Baddest Mother F$#^er In that valley!
99 STD (Under construction)
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Madmike
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« Reply #4 on: November 23, 2012, 09:15:11 PM » |
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just add that a compression gauge will help in determining if you have bent some valves on the one side.
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bentwrench
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« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2012, 06:27:46 AM » |
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"Spacial Disagreement" thanks I'm going to use that one on my customers.
bw
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Chrisj CMA
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« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2012, 06:37:30 AM » |
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I have owned my 98 Valk standard for two years. It has been trouble free and ran GREAT! I laid her down in September. Most of the damage was to the right crash bar, handle bar, timing cover, timing sprocket, belt and throttle cables. I have replaced these items. I replaced both timing belts and set the timing. I also replaced the fuel petcock with a pingle valve and added an inline fuel filter. I got her started this morning. She runs very weak and is ticking like mad. My fist thought is to check the valve clearances. My question is, why would they have changed so drastically? Maybe my timing is off a tooth? Would that explain how it is running? Any thoughts?
Really sounds like engine is coming out for new set of valves and maybe some pistons........no way to avoid it if that timing belt was cut while the engine was running......sorry, but what a time to learn that motor yes! |
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Hook#3287
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« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2012, 09:59:50 AM » |
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Really sounds like engine is coming out for new set of valves and maybe some pistons........no way to avoid it if that timing belt was cut while the engine was running......sorry, but what a time to learn that motor yes! That's not great news, but it does sound like the engine was running when it hit and broke the timing gear/sprocket. Assuming that's what happened, would replacing the motor with one from say Pinwheel, be better than ripping that one down and fixing? |
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Jeff K
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« Reply #8 on: November 24, 2012, 11:04:59 AM » |
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If it is what I think it is, swapping the entire head is pretty easy. I'd look at that first. But right now we are all just guessing. Kinda like... talking to ourselves.
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bentwrench
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« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2012, 03:21:54 PM » |
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Like Mad Mike said start with a compression test before you start tearing it down .Do all six to get a good baseline.If the two banks are very different then I would pull the head on that side and inspect the pistons for dammage.
BW
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melloyellow
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« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2012, 08:14:59 AM » |
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I threw my back out yesterday, so I will not be working on the bike anytime soon. I am developing a plan however. The crash bar did not impact the plug or wire though it may look like it in the picture. Also, the belt did not come off. I did not check the timing before removing the belt or cam, so I guess it is possible that it jumped a tooth? Any way, I think the first thing I am going to do is a compression check. That should tell me if I have bent valves on the right side, right? If I do, I can buy a working used right head to install for about $150.00. Seems that would be easier and cheaper than trying to repair/replace a camshaft, valves, etc. (assuming no damage to pistons) If my compression is good, I think I will take off the head covers and check valve clearances (looks like the same job as on my 1000s). If the problems continue after that, I guess I will have to do some more research and try some of your other suggestions. I am trying to tackle the easiest things first. Any suggestions are appreciated. Diagnostics are not my strong point! Thanks again, ernie
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You can have just about anything, you just can't have everything!
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Jeff K
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« Reply #11 on: November 25, 2012, 08:28:53 AM » |
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Picture? I don't see a picture. ???
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melloyellow
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« Reply #12 on: November 25, 2012, 09:11:44 AM » |
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Sorry about that   |
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You can have just about anything, you just can't have everything!
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sugerbear
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« Reply #13 on: November 25, 2012, 09:55:40 AM » |
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i think BEFORE you do a compression check, you should make very sure the timing is set correctly. check and then recheck.  |
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Jeff K
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« Reply #14 on: November 25, 2012, 02:51:37 PM » |
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Good news guys! Apparently all the good Valkyrie help is over on the NGW board. Quit wasting your time here, those guys over there are "head and shoulders above" y'all here! Quit wasn't your time, he has the real Valkyries experts to count on.
Yes, it did kinda piss me off.
I'm done with this.
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Challenger
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« Reply #15 on: November 25, 2012, 03:07:45 PM » |
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Maybe polkadot could learn about his hydraulic lifters leaking down over there.  |
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6tigo
Member
Posts: 39
Member #655
Melbourne Fl
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« Reply #16 on: November 26, 2012, 01:56:00 AM » |
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A compression check will not tell you anything unless you know that the cams are in time with the crankshaft.
I am assuming you only removed the right gear. Pull the valve cover over the number one cylinder, rotate the crank and align all the timing marks per the valve adjustment procedure in your shop manual.
When number one is at TDC there will be clearance at the intake and exhaust valves. If the number one exhaust valve is open, (pushed in) you are 180 degrees off.
When number one is at TDC both cams timing marks should be lined up perfectly. I think you will find that your right side is off.
Correct the location and go through the entire valve adjustment procedure ensuring valve positions / clearances are correct and agree with timing marks.
At this point you can do a compression check or better yet a compression leak test and check for damage.
If all you are hearing is ticking I don’t think anything was damaged.
Good luck.
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Four boxes keep us free:
The Soap Box, The Ballot Box, The Jury Box, and The Cartridge Box.
"Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the American Government take care of him; better take a closer look at the American Indian."
Henry Ford
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Bigwolf
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« Reply #17 on: November 26, 2012, 06:21:41 AM » |
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Damaged belt and timing pulley? If that belt came off or jumped a few teeth during impact you have bent valves. I have also seen the cam driven through the bearing towers in the head.
+1 I would back off all the valve adjustments on that cam and then do a leak down test on that bank. This is the only way to know if you have valve damage without pulling the head. |
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Jeff K
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« Reply #18 on: November 26, 2012, 06:23:52 AM » |
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If you line up the mark on the crankshaft that is TDC for #1 piston. If both cam pulleys are at their mark, and "up" is right side up, the timing is all good. No need to pull the valve cover to find TDC.
But, that said, if the "up"s are all up, and the crank is on the mark, and its clattering, there is a problem that is going to need some attention.
My opinion is, if the valves were not clattering before the wreck there should be no reason for them to be out of adjustment and making any noise now. I find it hard to believe they got out of adjustment in the blink of an eye.
If you line up the timing marks and find any of the valves with an extraordinary amount of clearance I'd be willing to bet they are bent.
If the motor was moved at all with the belts off there is potential for damage. We have had people on this board in the past bend valves while changing belts because they turned the motor over by hand to line up the timing marks.
There have also been a few on this board that have found their timing off a tooth and were able to reset them without incident.
But if it were only off by a tooth, it would run like crap, but it shouldn't be making any valve noise.
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RudyF6
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« Reply #19 on: November 26, 2012, 07:14:09 AM » |
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"Spacial Disagreement" thanks I'm going to use that one on my customers.
bw
Right up there with "Spontaneous Catastrophic Dissassembly".  |
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You can never be lost if you don't care where you're going!
98 "Tourerstate" (Std. with I/S bags/trunk)
98 Tourer solo ride
81 CBX
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Chrome
Member
Posts: 685
Um boom ba Bay Um boom ba Bay Ba Ba Boom Ba Be Be
London Ontario Canada
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« Reply #20 on: November 26, 2012, 07:46:42 AM » |
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Hey Jeff. Your last response to "polkadot ' proves that you are a much better person that I am. I would of handled much differently and I am sorry to say not nearly as well as you. My hats off to you . I think that you are " heads and shoulders above" and first rate Valkyrie mechanic. Good for you. Chrome  |
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2001 Valkyrie I/S
1999 Valkyrie I/S
1998 Valkyrie Tourer
1998 Ace Tourer
1984 V45 Sabre
1976 CB 750 SuperSport
1969 CB 750 Chopper
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Madmike
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« Reply #21 on: November 26, 2012, 11:59:13 AM » |
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if the valves and pistons slapped then the damage is done, doesn't matter if it is in time now, no compression most likely means a bent valve, if you have compression then you can carry on from there but as always its your bike do what you want.
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Madmike
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« Reply #22 on: November 26, 2012, 12:02:16 PM » |
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A compression check will not tell you anything unless you know that the cams are in time with the crankshaft.
I am assuming you only removed the right gear. Pull the valve cover over the number one cylinder, rotate the crank and align all the timing marks per the valve adjustment procedure in your shop manual.
When number one is at TDC there will be clearance at the intake and exhaust valves. If the number one exhaust valve is open, (pushed in) you are 180 degrees off.
When number one is at TDC both cams timing marks should be lined up perfectly. I think you will find that your right side is off.
Correct the location and go through the entire valve adjustment procedure ensuring valve positions / clearances are correct and agree with timing marks.
At this point you can do a compression check or better yet a compression leak test and check for damage.
If all you are hearing is ticking I don’t think anything was damaged.
Good luck.
360 off on teh crank, 180 on the cam - assuming it is in time. Also if you have a bent valve your lash will usually be way wide as the bent valve hits the seat and holds the valve open |
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« Last Edit: November 26, 2012, 12:06:30 PM by Madmike »
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melloyellow
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« Reply #23 on: November 26, 2012, 04:29:50 PM » |
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I do appreciate all your help. I truly did not intend to cause problems or insult in any way and
I apologize for that. I will take your advice when I am able to get back to the bike. I will keep you posted. Thanks again.
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You can have just about anything, you just can't have everything!
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Jeff K
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« Reply #24 on: December 29, 2012, 08:29:05 PM » |
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Just to put an end to this thread... he did bend valves due to spinning the motor with the belts off. And he is having the heads repaired by someone from the naked Goldwing board.
Case closed.
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john
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« Reply #25 on: December 30, 2012, 05:55:31 PM » |
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 " I laid her down in September." aren't ya gonna tell us about that ? 
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vrcc # 19002
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Jeff K
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« Reply #26 on: December 30, 2012, 06:13:12 PM » |
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I don't think he's coming back. He is posting on the NGW board. I just thought I'd put a end result on here so the thread would be complete. I hate reading a thread that doesn't have an end result.
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« Last Edit: December 30, 2012, 06:14:53 PM by Jeff K »
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Brian
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« Reply #27 on: December 30, 2012, 06:40:41 PM » |
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WOW, what's with all the hostility here? There is a lot a talent here. Give them a break.
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