Exhaust studs: anti-seize or Loctite?

[Kunkies]

Hello fellow Valk' addicts!

I'm new to the forum and continue to be impressed with the level of information and advice here.  This is my first real post, here goes and thank you in advance. . . .

I'm in the process of modifying my 2000 GL1500CT exhaust.  When I removed the exhaust from the headers, two of my exhaust studs sheered off.  Since, I've drilled them out and in one case I could not get a new stud in [that sounds kinda strange  ].  I used a tap and some WD40 to rethread successfully, however the new stud, jiggles a bit until it's fully seated.  I planned on using anti-seize on all the new studs I needed to replace, yet now debating whether or not I should use Loctite Red in the newly taped 8mm thread to avoid it coming loose.

Thoughts?

Also, any advice on re-installing my exhaust for now I have 4" truck stacks with Grumpy's tips to contend with versus the stock mufflers, covers and tips on the muffler mounts.

Looking forward to your insights.

Sincerely & respectfully,

-Bob
2000 Honda Valkyrie Tourer- GL1500CT

[Denny47]

I do not use loc tite on exhaust bolts. They seem to have a tendency to sieze up in the heads and weaken with heat causing them to twist off. Have had this happen on vehicles in the past and they are a pain to drill & tap. I also do not use WD40 for lube when cutting new treads, not enough lubricity. A person should use cutting oil but I never seem to have any on hand when needed and use motor oil. Just my opinion.

[hubcapsc]

The few times I've had some exhaust studs out, they didn't break. I put anti-seize on them
when I put them back in.

I thought that usually, when an exhaust stud would break, they'd break leaving a little
sticking out that you could grab onto and get the broken part out... yours broke flush? ugh.

-Mike

[Ricky-D]

The few times I've had some exhaust studs out, they didn't break. I put anti-seize on them
when I put them back in.

I thought that usually, when an exhaust stud would break, they'd break leaving a little
sticking out that you could grab onto and get the broken part out... yours broke flush? ugh.

-Mike

You're correct, for sure!  Probably the stock studs were changed out sometime in the past with an aftermarket replacement that was supposed to be an upgrade modification. Most likely to accommodate the aftermarket exhaust pipes.

Honda foresaw the problem and that's why they designed the stud with the reduced diameter on the exterior end of the stud.

All modifications are not equal. Equal to OEM that is. In the above case the upgrade was in effect a downgrade.

***

[John Schmidt]

One thing to keep in mind....this should be the last time you ever have to remove the exhaust, barring an accident. They don't need to be pulled to change/service the rear drive. I would use anti seize, especially on the outer threads. As for the one feeling a little loose, you may have used the wrong size drill bit or tap to go with the new stud. If you were simply cleaning up threads as opposed to cutting new ones, using a normal tap for cleaning threads will do that. There are two different tools used for that, one set is used to clean threads and won't enlarge or change the old threads. The other set is a regular tap used for cutting new threads. Most people don't realize there is a different set for each application and just use a regular tap to clean threads. That often makes a bolt/stud fit loose.

[BonS]

I use anti-seize. Thread locker is just going to soften when exposed to exhaust header temperatures and not lock anything.

[Joevalk]

On the bolt that feels loose,i would redo it with a heli- coil. If it's loose it isn't rite,no matter if its a valk or not

[Kunkies]

Thanks for the feedback.

A couple of things:
-I read that tapping oil versus WD40 was not necessary since I was simply rethreading into aluminum.
-Used a 8mm tap with a goal of rethreading and NOT cutting.

[Mean Cat]

On a Harley you locktite everything. On a Honda you anti-seize it.

[John Schmidt]

When you say "rethreading" do you mean you're just wanting to clean up the existing threads(called thread chasing)? If so, then using a tap is not what you want to use so I stand by my original statement. If you use something that is meant to cut new threads and run it into existing thread to recondition(chase) them, you do change the size and usually the pitch of those existing threads. The bolt will now feel loose. To just clean/recondition threads if you don't have a set of the "cleaner" taps, you're better off using a bolt of the same size with the end cut off square. Since a "thread chasing" set is rather pricey, I try to keep an assortment of the more popular size hardened bolts around for just that purpose. I cut them off square and from time to time will use the grinder to keep the end as square as possible.

This is all not meant as criticism, just information. You'd be surprised as to how many people aren't aware of the difference in use and application of such tools. A good thread chaser set can run near $200, not my cup of tea for something I seldom use.

What it boil down to is this; a thread tap used to chase(clean or recondition) threads will make the same size bolt/stud fit loose.

[da prez]

 Another trick I have used is to take a hammer and flatten the threads on the stud a little  before installing the stud. This will get you by , but if it comes out again , then you may have to heli-coil or keen-sert the thread. Just my two cents (b-4 taxes)
                          da prez

[Ricky-D]

I've a cheapo set of dies and taps - Chinese made and they are great for chasing threads

not much good for cutting threads cause they're poorly made and not sharp, but they are good steel

And straighten threads out fine with no visible cutting.

***

[Kunkies]

Thanks Stuffy, I never take any advice on this forum as criticism, for all come with good intent.

I tested the other 8mm stud threads and replaced the stud into them and they jiggle a bit too, I didn't touch them.  When they are fully seated, they are rock solid.  I'm going to go with what I have before I install a helicoil or equiv'.  Question is:

How does one torque down the 8mm end of the stud into the aluminum block when the other side of the bolt stud is a 6mm thread (for the exhaust caps)?  Hand tighten only?

[Ricky-D]

If you say they are sloppy when loose but tighten up solid when they are at the bottom of the threaded hole I suggest to leave them just like that without trying to torque them.

If you try to torque the studs you chance stripping them out for sure. They might do that anyways when you tighten the 10mm nuts down on the header bracket.

I'd suggest to go very easy on those 10mm nuts also and just be sure they have pulled the bracket up evenly and all the nuts have an equal amount of force applied to them with a small wrench.

I suggest to not try and torque them down either. The application of a torque wrench due to the torque wrench's allowable variation (error) and loss of calibration can do more harm than good.

You have to remember that this motor has almost no vibration and as a reward of this smoothness you lose practically no hardware from the bike. Nothing loosens up and falls off.

The only necessary thing to practice would be to keep an eye on the nuts and if one seems to be coming loose, well simple just tighten it up some. That's all there is to it!

***

[Madmike]

I would not use thread locker on  the studs.  If the threads are that loose you may want to look for a thread restoration product (Loctite makes some) but not sure what heat ranges they will withstand.  Theoretically the 8 MM end will withstand a lot more torque that the 6MM end.  If you decide to use an anti-seize material be aware that because the threads are lubricated (assuming you are doing the 6mm end) when you assemble them you will likely be getting more stretch at a lower torque and so it will likely be easier to break the studs off.

My torque wrenches test out at within 4% of scale when they are new, they are sent for calibration from time to time to verify that they remain accurate.  You can get different results by varying how you pull on the wrench and varying your hand positions.

[franco6]

the torque is 7 ft pound for the exhaust nuts, in case anyone forgot
never used anything, no problems.

[Kunkies]

Great advice ALL!

I have a 1/4" torque wrench and will use the proper torque...ultimately.  7ft pound isn't much anyway.  After a few rides (i.e., cold, hot, cold, hot, etc.) I'll have enough experience with the exhaust to know if they are consistently coming loose, and/or leaking.