Tire wear, what's not to understand.

[Cruzen]

With some degree of amusement, I have been reading about tire wear problems on this and other  boards.  I average about 11K miles per set of tires on my 1999 Valkyrie Interstate which is used mostly for road trips.  Depending on usage, I average 12-14K on my 2001 Magna which is used around town and on short road trips.  I run dyna beads in the tires which maintain good balancing throughout the wear of the tire unlike metal wheel weights which give reasonable balancing for 1000 miles or so after which your tires are out of balance which increases tire wear.  Yes, when removed, my used tires are slightly below the warning strip but I figure since I paid for the entire tire I should use the entire tire.

Based on 40 plus years of conservative riding doing between 10 and 20k miles per year, I think most of the tire problems are caused by riders over loading their machines.  (Please note the Honda recommended increase in tire pressure when riding at or near the weight limit.) My Valkyrie Interstate load rating is 415 lbs.  (Not sure how that compares to a Valk Tourer or Standard)  That load rating includes rider ( who usually understimates his weight ), passenger (who always lies about her weight), luggage and here’s where most riders go wrong, it also includes all that chrome, added lighting, fender guards, luggage racks, luggage guards, foot boards, cup holders, CD player, dash toys, ride and club plaques and other essential and non essential garbage that some riders add.  Yea, it’s nice to get that stuff for Christmas and birthdays but it all adds to the sprung load the bike and tires must carry ALL THE TIME.

I weigh 195 to 200lbs give or take a burger.  My lady weighs 130 or less( Honestly).  However in riding gear such as my heavy leathers, boots and with helmet (only used when the law requires) my total weight is 225-230 as measured on my digital scale.  Hers is about 150 ( no, I did not ask her to get on a scale.  I’m not that stupid. ) for a total of  375-380lbs.  On the road trips, we carry about 35-40 lbs in luggage for a total of 415-420lbs which puts us right at the limit.  Our Valkyrie has one set of out rigger foot pegs which weigh about 6 lbs.  The rear shocks are set on number 5.  We ride conservatively meaning we seldom take curves at more than 10mph over the posted speed limit and no metal parts are ever dragging on the pavement.  We live in Arizona so we’re almost always on very hot pavement and there are a lot of twisties. 

Now I have seen some hefty bubba’s and bubbetts on Valkyries, Goldwings and other large bikes out here and I’m sure the same is true in other parts of the country.  Together, rider and passenger, probably have a combined weight somewhere just shy of a corn fed calf.  Add to that whatever they have in the luggage compartments and all that purdy chrome stuff that’s been added and they breeze past that 415 load limit by at least 200 lbs or more.  Add to that the dynamics which significantly increase the weight on a tire when cornerning hard and it’s no wonder they experience premature and uneven tire wear.  Overloading a garbage truck by 50% would cause suspension failure and premature tire wear and it usually does not corner hard.

Next time your wondering about tire wear take an HONEST assessment of what you are carrying, it’s distribution on the bike and your riding habits.  In addition, if you ride that puppy like you stole it then you should expect the same tire wear that the sport bike riders get which is around 5-7K from a set of tires. 

The trip is short,
enjoy the ride,
Denny

[Black Pearl's Captain]

Edited for those with can't handle more then one opinion.

Yea what he said, don't overload your Valk or modify it.

Ride safe all.

I guess they also missed this line in the oringinal version:

This is all for your amusment so don't take it personal, just my experiences. YMMV

Raymond

[Sharkey]

I guess I need to get a new bike. I am 6 foot 5 ant tip the scales at 300 ish. My 2xl tall jacket cosists of a cow hide, 13 eee boots, size 40/36 levis, 2xl full face helmet, I am probably at a easy 350 in riding gear. That doesnt leave much for the wife, luggage and tools 

[Big Rig]

I am amused...just picturing someone all geared up on the scale...my scale would run and hide if I did that...

good reading late at night...

here is a question...where do you all set your shocks when you ride solo?? and for those that are dragging parts...where are yours set????

Next I may ask about oil, sea foam and maybe tire choices...love the site and the reading...

I will not make any mention of elected officials...

[Dogg]

everyone is entitled to his or her opinion. What cruzen had said has some validity. Overloading a bike can cause premature tire failure. Each person's personal experiences may prove different depending on their own personal driving habits.
  My standard, went 4 k miles before I had to replace the rear tire. I ride it like I stole it all the time. My superX, went 15k miles before I had to replace the rear tire. I was reserved in riding a bike where parts are hard to find. My HD went 10k miles before I had to change the rear tire. It wouldnt get out of its own way so, yes, conservative riding habits:D
  I ve seen wingers ride their wings like I ride my valk, hard on it. hard braking, hard cornering, dragging stuff. cool! Thats their choice.  Just because one person makes a statement about something, tires, seafoam, whatever, doesnt mean its ok for everyone else to rip into him or make fun of his opinions. personally, I think a ct is absolutely stupid on a mc but, who am I to question? I listen to people talk about it, see them in action and guess what? MAYBE, I might try it someday. My mind is open to suggestions because I want to LEARN what is best for me and my bike. My opinion of one thing isnt someone else's and I wouldn't force it on anyone.
 I had a great time at the b/g ride, met some fantastic people and I have to wonder why the forums are a bashing ground for a few. Life is short enough and should be enjoyed completely-sharing information and or opinion may be something one might think about. If load capacity is 415 and one is packing 600 lbs on their bike, maybe tire wear and driveline wear is diminished because of the extra almost 200 lbs. maybe. maybe, the weight limit is set way too low by honda to save someones life....

  My friend has a streetglide, he sold out, gave up his metric cruiser for it, decided to join HOGS, the whole story. anyway, went to myrtle beach on the bike. Had no idea of what overloading a bike was, packed on almost 1000 lbs worth of crap for a 10 day trip for he and his wife. he is around 250, wife is shy of 200. plus the luggage he added and tons of chrome...you get the picture.  He said bike wobbled at 65, couldnt figure what was wrong with it, ws bitching about it and screaming  at the HD dealer in myrtle beach. when they showed the service guy the bike loaded. He ran them out of the store. he was pushing 1200 lbs over limit.

  Im not saying anyone here is doing that. just saying that it was a lesson learned for him. It scared him. I didnt know the weight limit on my valk but, after reading this, I went and looked. I learned something. Maybe, it would be a good idea if people would try tro be less opinionated and more open minded about postings that may(or may not) save someones life.

 Sorry about the rant. but I wish people would just be a little more grown up and open about some things. 

[thumper]

This subject is a real sore spot for me right now.  I have a set of Avon Cobras on my '03 Standard and the rear tire is shot at less than 8,000 miles!

I check my tire pressure religiously and am never more than 2 lbs. away from my target of 42 lbs.

I never ride two up, avoid jack rabbitt starts, weigh less than 185 lbs., and never overload the bike.

I do, however, ride almost exclusively in the twisties and have been known to drag a peg or two.

I am devasted that this is all I can expect from the Avons.  I've heard the Dunlop Elite 3 is a much harder compound tire which should wear better.....but I don't know.

Any suggestions short of going to the darkside would be appreciated.

Paul

[Black Pearl's Captain]

everyone is entitled to his or her opinion. What cruzen had said has some validity. Overloading a bike can cause premature tire failure. Each person's personal experiences may prove different depending on their own personal driving habits.
  My standard, went 4 k miles before I had to replace the rear tire. I ride it like I stole it all the time. My superX, went 15k miles before I had to replace the rear tire. I was reserved in riding a bike where parts are hard to find. My HD went 10k miles before I had to change the rear tire. It wouldnt get out of its own way so, yes, conservative riding habits:D
  I ve seen wingers ride their wings like I ride my valk, hard on it. hard braking, hard cornering, dragging stuff. cool! Thats their choice.  Just because one person makes a statement about something, tires, seafoam, whatever, doesnt mean its ok for everyone else to rip into him or make fun of his opinions. personally, I think a ct is absolutely stupid on a mc but, who am I to question? I listen to people talk about it, see them in action and guess what? MAYBE, I might try it someday. My mind is open to suggestions because I want to LEARN what is best for me and my bike. My opinion of one thing isnt someone else's and I wouldn't force it on anyone.
 I had a great time at the b/g ride, met some fantastic people and I have to wonder why the forums are a bashing ground for a few. Life is short enough and should be enjoyed completely-sharing information and or opinion may be something one might think about. If load capacity is 415 and one is packing 600 lbs on their bike, maybe tire wear and driveline wear is diminished because of the extra almost 200 lbs. maybe. maybe, the weight limit is set way too low by honda to save someones life....

  My friend has a streetglide, he sold out, gave up his metric cruiser for it, decided to join HOGS, the whole story. anyway, went to myrtle beach on the bike. Had no idea of what overloading a bike was, packed on almost 1000 lbs worth of crap for a 10 day trip for he and his wife. he is around 250, wife is shy of 200. plus the luggage he added and tons of chrome...you get the picture.  He said bike wobbled at 65, couldnt figure what was wrong with it, ws bitching about it and screaming  at the HD dealer in myrtle beach. when they showed the service guy the bike loaded. He ran them out of the store. he was pushing 1200 lbs over limit.

  Im not saying anyone here is doing that. just saying that it was a lesson learned for him. It scared him. I didnt know the weight limit on my valk but, after reading this, I went and looked. I learned something. Maybe, it would be a good idea if people would try tro be less opinionated and more open minded about postings that may(or may not) save someones life.

 Sorry about the rant. but I wish people would just be a little more grown up and open about some things. 

Dogg can a guy call BS here anymore? If so I'd like for you to explain how you can load enough stuff on a little Harley street glide to be


"1200 lbs over limit" That would be like 1600 pounds of load on his bike. Did he have a GEO tied on the rear rack or what?

Please explaing what he could have had on the bike?

Raymond

[Willow]

I'm with Raymond.  My experience is a long ways from the "experts".  I tend to get closer to 20K from a rear tire and never less than 20K from a front, but then I've been known to be pretty irresponsible.

I think it has very little to do with overloading and a lot to do with the kind of road surface on which the tires are normally ridden.

YMMV.

[Dogg]

he had 9 bags, 2 coolers, coats rain gear, tool box(tool box, 3 drawer tote box. musta wieghed 100 lbs buy itself.lol) it was stacked up on top of the luggage 3 high, on top on both bags 3 high, tank bag full of crap, bar bag full and the wife carried her "personal" bag in her lap. Plus they arent small.lol maybe with the wieght of both of them it was that much. His wife had told me, it was 1000 lbs worth of crap she took off. and IF I remember correctly, she had said they were about that overwieght. at 65mph, the bike wobbled so bad he had to slow down. I can make it at a normal pace to myrtle beach in 8 hours. It took them 12. so, how bad was the wobble and how overloaded were they? maybe she exagerated a little. but I did get a good laugh out of it.

[Black Pearl's Captain]

Dogg what I hate is people that get on here and flame someone for having their own opinion, I even stated it was all my opinion, then someone gets on here and flame their A$$ for making an opinion then posting a bunch of unbeleieveable stuff like you post.

BS, no way there were 9 bags with 100 pounds each on a harley with a tollbox and 2 ice chest and and and..

BS!

flame on,

Did we ever get to see that dyno sheet that says you have the most powerful Valk ever rode yet? I'm calling BS on that too.

Raymond

[B]

Is 42psig what Avon recommends? I've never had Avons. 
I don't have a Honda Manual but I know Clymer claims 33-36psig is the norm.

I typically run low 30s (psig) in my Elite3s on my 99 Valk Interstate; I previously ran E3s on my Shadow, also.  I'm 225 and often ride 2; I've put 13k+ on the rear tires and probably could have pushed it a little farther if I wanted to. I've heard some claim the front tires will go twice as long ... still waiting to see.

I've heard some guys don't like Dunlaps ...but  I'm reluctant to change.
I do know a couple of guys that have gone to the "dark side" & swear by car tires in the back.

My2cents
B

[Dogg]

I never attacked you, nor did I insinuate anything. And I wasnt flaming at all. It seems, you just took everything the wrong way. What I said was not directed at you in any way shape or form...Just a general statement of what goes on here....and a story that someone told me is exactly that...a story. It was told to me the  way I told it because I was not having a good day and her story did make me laugh so, she accomplished what she set out to do. Is that a bad thing? You cant see the humor in it?

 I dont care what you think of my bike. I dont care what you believe is true or not. I told a story that was along the same lines as the topic subject. You take it anyway you want. I laughed about it...maybe you should try it once ina while.....

 

  I believe everyone is who they are by choice. I always take the good with the bad and balance it myself, finding the better side of people to relate to instead of nitpicking crap to death. I dont know  you, dont care why you thought I was flaming you originally, maybe you have some guilt somewhere...about something...I dunno. Maybe, you just arent ina good mood tonite. It doesnt bother me at all. What bothers me is, bringing something into a thread which is unrelated and down right mean...You bash me because I never posted my dyno results?? Like it really matters?? bring your best...Im still faster....I dont care what you believe.lol


 My apologies to anyone who may have thought I was flaming. I wasnt. sorry for the misunderstanding. I was trying to express MY OPINION and relay a cute story someone had told me that was related to the topic of this thread. No worries. It wont happen again...

[Black Pearl's Captain]

bring your best...Im still faster....I dont care what you believe.lol

I'll take you up on that any anytime. We start at 5 am and ride until midnight. You don't have a chance. I'll be hundreds of mile farther than you by noon.
Raymond

[humshark]

I think it has very little to do with overloading and a lot to do with the kind of road surface on which the tires are normally ridden.

Willow, I'm with you!
I have ridden thousands of miles now in both WI pre-move and now down here in TN.  I replaced my tires here and after 4k my front tire is showing SERIOUS signs of wear.  I am running AVON's and I am hoping to get 8k from the front ..... maybe.

Pre move - I would ride Wisconsin and the Upper Peninsula area and got nearly 20k from an Avon front.  Roughly 12k on the rear.

The difference?  While WI roads are far from smooth - the pavement with which the "bumps" are made from is smooth, and the numbers of curves are few in comparison to TN. ( unless you count swerving for potholes! )  The U.P. has wonderful roads as long as you stay off the logging trails! ( long story )

Here in TN, I ride a LOT of back roads.  I have noticed that the pavement is very rough and I am always leaning through a curve one way or another.  Overall I am riding slower, and riding solo, but am still seeing an incredible increase in the front tire wear.  The 40 grit surface here is taking quite a bite as opposed to the 200 grit of my previous stomping grounds!  It HAS to be the pavement! 

[Normandog]

This subject is a real sore spot for me right now.  I have a set of Avon Cobras on my '03 Standard and the rear tire is shot at less than 8,000 miles!

I check my tire pressure religiously and am never more than 2 lbs. away from my target of 42 lbs.

I never ride two up, avoid jack rabbitt starts, weigh less than 185 lbs., and never overload the bike.

I do, however, ride almost exclusively in the twisties and have been known to drag a peg or two.

I am devasted that this is all I can expect from the Avons.  I've heard the Dunlop Elite 3 is a much harder compound tire which should wear better.....but I don't know.

Any suggestions short of going to the darkside would be appreciated.

Paul

I wish I could get 8000 out of a rear tire Paul. If I get 5 or a little over I've done good.    I am beginning to believe the road surface thing. Particularily after reading Humsharks post above. My I/S had an elite 3 on it when I bought it and if the previous owner was right about when he put it on, it was shot at about 4300. If it is the road surface, I'm gonna have to live with it cause I aint leaving God's country. 

[solo1]

You guys take all the fun out of it!

  Almost everyone that I've seen on a Valk is not too worried about weight limits.  If they were, and if the Valk couldn't take being somewhat overweight, there would be a lot less Valk riders.

I personally look at it from a slightly different perspective.  Power to weight ratio, the more weight the more power that must be used to overcome the weight and the less power and effective brake power to do what you want.

 Since I installed the sidecar, I have been satisfied with not having to hold up the Valk with my bad knees.  I am not satisfied with the reduced performance because of the 400 pounds of extra weight both in acceleration and braking.  More and more, I'm thinking that putting a sidecar on a Valk is like hooking up a beer wagon to a race horse.

  All of the comments here have good points.  The only comment made in this thread that I was uneasy with is using all of the tire's tread "since I paid for it"  I personally have more regard for my arse that trying to get the last mile out of a tire.  Rain combined with almost bald tires could put your arse on the line..

[hubcapsc]

I'm with Raymond.  My experience is a long ways from the "experts".  I tend to get closer to 20K from a rear tire and never less than 20K from a front, but then I've been known to be pretty irresponsible.

I think it has very little to do with overloading and a lot to do with the kind of road surface on which the tires are normally ridden.

YMMV.

I think Willow must be right. I'm not a hot-dog, and I keep a fair check on 40front and 42back. I get 8000-9000 max on a rear
tire... I've had to change a Metzler at 6000, and a Venom near that... Cobra seems better for me...  my roads just must be more abrasive than Willow's... a half
mile (1/4 out, 1/4 in) on a dirt/gravel road every time I leave the house...

YMWV.

-Mike

[Cruzen]

You guys take all the fun out of it!
 
  All of the comments here have good points.  The only comment made in this thread that I was uneasy with is using all of the tire's tread "since I paid for it"  I personally have more regard for my arse that trying to get the last mile out of a tire.  Rain combined with almost bald tires could put your arse on the line..

What's rain???  This is Arizona  lots of sun, very little rain.

There's more rubber on that tire than you think and more safety built into it than the manufactures will acknowledge.  I don't ride the tires to the cords but I don't leave enough so the tire can be resold either.  

I did not know that I was going to start a feud. This is just my personal observations and those of several shop managers who keep some of the worst tires to show as examples of such.  Anyone can take them or leave them.  My beliefs in not overloading the bike gives me the mileage I get on the roads I ride and if you're not getting what I get then in my opinion, it's not the tire but you.  Plain and simple.  Some people have a problem with the fact that they might be the problem.  They want to blame it on a defective this or that.  Overloading the bike and agressive riding are two of the factors I know will lead to excessive tire wear and it doesn't matter what bike you are riding or whose tire you are using.  

When I sold my previous Magna to a guy he came back and told me he only got 2000 miles out of the rear tire before he had to replace it.  I did a mental calc of how many miles were on the tire when I sold the bike and figured he had gotten around 6k on the rear which was about half of what I was getting on that bike.  He then told me I was right that it would smoke any Harley off the line and he could keep up with some of the sports bikes in the twisties.  After hearing that I knew why he only got 6K out of that rear tire.  Ride like that and you will spend a lot of time in shops watching them change your tires.

The trip is short,
enjoy the ride,
Denny

[Tundra]

I notice that I get much better milage being unemployed, bike tires cost nearly as much as replacing four truck tires! I just push them farther than I once would have. Don't have a choice.

[Dogg]

I'll take you up on that any anytime. We start at 5 am and ride until midnight. You don't have a chance. I'll be hundreds of mile farther than you by noon.
Raymond


You have long distance under your belt. I had stated earlier ( a while ago) that I have never gone any great distance on any bike other than the around town 300 mile kind. I will say this, I aint shy and once i get an IS, I will be turning out the miles with the best of them. Not on my bike, I cant ride more than 40 or 50 miles without getting off it to let the blood back in my butt.....unfortuantely, I didnt do what I did to my bike to go to mississippi, I did it to "show" it...next valk will be a rider and once I get it the way I want it,(seat config, footpeg placement, beverage holder location) I bet I can hang with the best...

 If I can drive a little 71 toyota celica across the country, I can ride a bike across the country. that car was uncomfortable and I made it to greeley colorado in 22 hours. straight.

I just wanna do it on 2 wheels.

 As far as tire wear, I have about 2500 miles on my front tire and its shot.lol that big tire pushes it so hard it wears it out on the sides. I still have a brand new dunlop 206 on my stock valk wheel in the garage. Thinking maybe someday Ill have a spare for the IS Ima gonna buy...

[asfltdncr]

I've put about 40k miles on my 99 I/S (not much next to many of you).I started using Dunlops because that is what was on the bike when purchased.I was lucky to get 5k out the rear and even then had cupping issues and the front would have quite a "turn in" problem when I had plenty of tread left.Installed Elite II's with about the same mileage results without the turn in and cupping.A good amount of SoCal Valkyrie Riders were running Venoms so I switched to those with completely different results front one time to the next.Basically, it seems as though very conservative riders will get pretty good service and mileage out of either of the above tires.For those of us that like to twist the throttle a little more,it becomes apparent that the quality and/or the quality control and therefore, the safety of Avon has become questionable for the application.This is why I went to a CT and am going to try the D404 rear tire up front.I also want to see 20k on my tires without changing my riding style.
The only negative I've seen with the CT is when you hit a wrinkle in the asphalt-stay off of that, it gets exciting fast.
Whatever argument against the use of car tires seems to be offset by all the failures of motorcycle tires I read about in this forum.