questions for Dark Siders

[Valkorado]

I am thinking about a car tire for the rear, mainly because I am poor and very tempted by the mileage potential.  I am concerned about reports of bad handling, especially at slow speeds and maneuvering parking lots, etc. I understand cornering takes some getting used to as well.  Admittedly, I am accustomed to the smooth feel of a quality motorcycle tire, and am apprehensive about the transition especially since I do ride with my lady pretty often.  Does riding darkside ever become second nature, or must a rider always be conscious of the car tire?  In other words, does it become instinctive?

[F6BANGER]

I dont even realize I have a car tire anymore. I got used to it in the first 20 miles. If you do your own work, you need to pull wheel off every 10k miles or so and do maintenance.

[Gryphon Rider]

Most of it becomes instinctive.  You DO have to pay attention when riding on rutted pavement, or any place where there is a difference in pavement height between the left side and right side of your tire, as it will move the bike sideways towards the low side.  Also, if you ride through a compressive bump, like a dip, while leaned in a corner, it will tend to stand the bike up, moving the bike out slightly in the corner.  This is not usually an issue, but IS something to be aware of while riding hard.

[old2soon]

Most of it becomes instinctive.  You DO have to pay attention when riding on rutted pavement, or any place where there is a difference in pavement height between the left side and right side of your tire, as it will move the bike sideways towards the low side.  Also, if you ride through a compressive bump, like a dip, while leaned in a corner, it will tend to stand the bike up, moving the bike out slightly in the corner.  This is not usually an issue, but IS something to be aware of while riding hard.

   What he said + if you have any experience at all it doesn't take a lot of time for the transition. I was comfortable in 15-20 miles. YOUR results on the other hand WILL vary. On my second D/S and a little over 27000 miles on D/S. I live in an area where i have some really nice twistys available to me and as of this moment i forget it's a car tire. What standa out the most-for me anyway is the better/extra/confident feeling i get in a strong cross wind. She seems to be better planted to the road. If you do go D/S try to run 1500 2000 miles on it. Then after running on your normal roads-then make an INFORMED decision. Their is no inbetween for some folks on this subject. Some love it others hate it.  RIDE SAFE.

[mustang071965]

put one on my 99 valkyrie interstate last year, rode to grand canyon then yellow stone and back. best thing i ever done. mind now not all c/t are to be used on the rear. go to the darkside chart on the web and pick one of the ones that are tryed and true there. mine is the general altimax hp 205-60-16 the tread is very simulare to a motorcycle tire. i run 40 psi but you should start out around 36psi and find what feels best for you. the tire has 12000 miles on it now and still looks new. slow speeds are no trouble in parking lot. when im under 5mph i put out my landing gear for balance any way. curvers well i can scrap the pegs off if i want to with no fear of losing grip. if you do put a c/t on remove the cage nut holder on the fender this tends to stick out and rub tire, with it removed no proublem. and like the others have said it will take less then 25 miles to get tuned to riding with a c/t on the rear.

[Jess from VA]

Aside from some occasional hickups, bumps and wobbles from irregular surfaces and a little counter steering in long sweepers any experienced rider can master the tire in a short time.  It is different and will intermittently remind you it is there for a month or two of weekend riding, but soon enough you ignore it completely.  I can out-turn and out-maneuver inside short spaces better than most all of my riding buddies on lighter bikes with bike tires......... its the rider, not the tire.  High speed mountain twisties are no problem either.  The tire gets better (and so do you) at 5K miles or so, andbetter yet at 10K.

My first experience was not good.... the installer put in 25lbs, not the 40 I asked for.  When I made it 40, all was good, and I stay at 40 (Goodyear TT).  I believe the General Ultamax (and some others) are more bike-tire-like in ride than the Goodyear....... just don't go 40K miles. And of course you cannot let the rear end go unserviced for 40K.

And the added stability and braking in all conditions (like rain, and freeway travel) is remarkably better.

[olddog1946]

I'm running a Federal 535 205/55/16 and currently have about 20K on it. Just starting to show some wear.  It certainly felt squirrely at first but nothing unmanagable. I found that for most of the riding I do it wasn't too bad at all, then when I hit about 8K it was like someone flicked a switch and it no longer requires counter steer in the sweeper, or is affected by tar snakes. The only place that I really notice it now is in the ruts on high travelled roads (Seattle, Spokane).
When I switch bikes to the BMW and back I can tell the difference, but the feel only lasts for a few miles.

[SANDMAN5]

I have about 50,000 Darkside miles, 31,000 on my current tire, GYTT.
The ONLY way I would consider switching back to mc tire is if I had a
flat and only mc tires were available. People mention being careful on
a rutted road or pavement changes....well, you should do that no matter
what tire you have. It's been said here dozens of times...the handling is
not better or worse, just different. Highways, long sweepers, inclement
weather, hard braking, mileage, etc, the Darkside MURDERS mc tires. IF
you ride only hard twisties you might be better of with mc tires. Otherwise
you should give it a try, IMHO. A lot of people try it, few go back. YMMV.

[CASABROKER]

I'll never go back.  No mods required for the tire I am riding now.  Once used to it I can't even tell now.  Lean it over, stops great etc.  200 more rpm at 75 MPH

http://www.onlinetires.com/products/vehicle/tires/dunlop/195%252F60-16+dunlop+sp+sport+5000+symmetrical+89h+bsw.html

[Challenger]

I have over 30,000 on a GY-TT on the I/S. It's 99% two up and loaded and could only get about 8,000 out of any MC tire. The Good Year rides smoother, handles great and last longer. I have a MC tire on my STD and go back and forth with out giving it a thought as to which one I'm riding. Like others have stated, I can scrape pegs and do quite often without worry. Stopping at lights on potholed crappy streets will give you a pucker once in a while, but other than that I aint going back to MC tire on the I/S. Not trying to sway your in any direction. If you like it, you like and if you don't you don't, but you have to try it to find out. Anyone close that will let you ride their darksider?

[Valhalla]

I dont even realize I have a car tire anymore. I got used to it in the first 100 miles. If you do your own work, you need to pull wheel off every 10k miles or so and do maintenance.

I thought this was to provide longer mileage between tire maint...if you have to pull it off every 10K anyway...where is the gain?  Not arguing, just asking...

[SANDMAN5]

No, it's to prove longer mileage between tire REPLACEMENT. I've not
noticed anyone saying you shouldn't do regular spline maint.

[Tropic traveler]

Gave a Mich HydroEdge 205-65-16 a try being as it was on the '99 when I bought it. Since we have two other Valks {w/MC tires} it was very easy to compare the differences. I don't care what anyone else claims, there is a HUGE difference in low speed, parking lot handling & effort. If anyone tells you otherwise they are not being totally truthful. A ride on the CT equipped '99 followed by a ride on my MC tire equipped nearly made me throw the '97 down at the first low speed turn!  
That being said there are several distinct advantages to a CT on a Valk. Rear braking is noticeably improved along with better wet road traction. The following ruts & tar snakes thing is not that much worse than a MC tire. After getting up to speed I was hard pressed to tell any difference between the two.
Overall I prefer the MC tire due in part to my desire to have all 3 of our Valks handle the same {they do now} as we swap rides occasionally & I don't want Kim to have to deal with the differences.
I'm sure that the Mich tire I had on the back was one of the worst choices for a CT on a Valk. I had to drop it down to 28 psi just to get the low speed handling somewhat acceptable. I am paying very close attention to all those who have the Austone Taxi tire on their Valks, Bert & Grumpy are close by & have them on their Valks. Seems like the best of both worlds + a 200 rpm reduction at speed to boot.
My 2 cents.

[Jess from VA]

I dont even realize I have a car tire anymore. I got used to it in the first 100 miles. If you do your own work, you need to pull wheel off every 10k miles or so and do maintenance.

I thought this was to provide longer mileage between tire maint...if you have to pull it off every 10K anyway...where is the gain?  Not arguing, just asking...

Let's see, aside from the fact the car tire works better at many things than a bike tire......... my 1st GTT cost $112 delivered and went 45K miles, and my 180 steel belt Metz rears cost $180 to over $200 and got only 8-9K miles (over and over).  I think the GTT is up to about $135 now.

1  Goodyear for 45K miles cost $112 (plus one mount)
5  Metzlers for 40-45K miles cost over $900 (plus five mounts)

I can do the rear end maintenance myself, but I do not attempt to mount tires.

Another point is this........... there is nothing like taking off on a long trip across many states and having the piece of mind that your rear tire is nearly bulletproof for any miles in any weather.

And we all know that rears get punctured/flats way more often than fronts, but how many rear car tires have you read about getting flats (even thou the contact patch is way bigger)?  I'm sure there must be some, but not many.  The car tire carcass is way tougher than bike tires.  And should a puncture/flat happen, I will happily ride another 25K on that plugged car tire, but would not be so happy to continue on a plugged bike tire.

[Valkorado]

Thanks for the good information, guys.  Seems like the overall consensus is pretty good, and I am really leaning toward a CT.  I don't want to have to mod bike for a trial run, but I also don't want any scraping, rubbing or puckering!  I do have Two Brothers 6-into-6 pipes, and wonder if they might in the way of anything.  I am interested in this Austone Taxi tire, especially if it has the wear of a CT with good handling characteristics.  I found it reviewed by a Valk rider who seems to really like it

http://www.goldwingfacts.com/forums/5-general-motorcycle-discussion-forum/378140-pictures-austone-taxi-tire-valkyrie.html

and I think that could be the tire that rolls me over to the Dark Side.

I am no mechanic, but had a (very cool) offer from a regional VRCC member (this forum ROCKS)   to check and grease my bike's splines and throw on a new rear tire this coming spring.  I just bought my Tourer with 14,400 miles in August and  had it to almost 20K when I winterized it in mid November, so it is high time to check and service them thar splines!  Anyway, would installing this tire be any more difficult for him to do than a bike tire?

[Jess from VA]

Nope. 

Except, the 6 X 6 Cobras and TwoBros are a bit harder to work around than the OE style cans in the back..... so I have been told (no personal experience)

[fudgie]

I was disappointed when I first took mine out. I could tell no differance tween it and my 200 metz. Took awhile to find the 'flaws'. Slow speed is far better. Uneven pavement can be bad but your in control.

[97Valk_CT_Euless]

Had the cobra 6-6's since I bought it (my only valk) and yes, they're a "B" to work around pulling / replacing the rear wheel (m/c tire). Dont have to remove them but you do have to loosen them up and swing them away from the bike as much as you can.  I'm sure it's rough on the exhaust gaskets but I was able to get it backtogether without leaks. No idea about the two-bros. Not sure that helps but hey... Gotta try, this boards been good to me!

[Tropic traveler]

I had a nail in the rear CT. Rather than plug it I went ahead & converted back to an Avon 180/70. I did, despite the CT flat, feel more confident in the CT durability over the long haul. It's just the low speed ill-handling issue was too much for me.
I sometimes wonder why some of you guys are getting such bad mileage from your MC tires. Kim's Valk has 17,000 miles on a set of Avon Cobras & they look like they could go another 10,000. I routinely get 17,000 miles from Avon front but rarely get a chance to wear out a rear due to nails.  If I get a flat, I replace it as soon as possible.
I'm totally neutral on the CT/MC tire issue. Run what you feel comfortable with, just know there are differences. 

[Jess from VA]

I've always been hard on tires......... cars too.

At 16 my nickname at the Mobil station where I pumped gas was Parnelli........... and I don't think it was a compliment.  I certainly don't look Italian, not that there's anything wrong with that.   

[cutter]

99' I/S with 205-60-16 Yokahoma Avid ENVigor and Cobra pipes. Luv the CT and never have to do a thing with the pipes. I have a lift and block under the front tire if I need to and use a bottle jack to raise and lower swing arm to remove axle. 

[vanagon40]

I dont even realize I have a car tire anymore. I got used to it in the first 100 miles. If you do your own work, you need to pull wheel off every 10k miles or so and do maintenance.

I thought this was to provide longer mileage between tire maint...if you have to pull it off every 10K anyway...where is the gain?  Not arguing, just asking...

Uhm, with a car tire, I pull my wheel off at 10K, check and/or replace the O-rings, lube the splines, and put the wheel back on for a total cost of about $10 plus maintenance, and I do the same thing again at 20,000 miles, and I do the same thing again at 30,000 miles, except now I have to spend another $100 and have the tire mounted and balanced;

OR

I pull my wheel off at 10K, check and/or replace the O-rings, lube the splines, buy a new tire and have my tire mounted and balanced, and put the wheel back on for a total cost of about $180 plus maintenance, and I do the same thing again at 20,000 miles for a cost again of about $180 plus maintenance, and I do the same thing again at 30,000 miles, for a cost again of about $180 plus maintenance.

Even though I'm pulling the wheel off every 10,000 miles, seeem like I'm still saving a lot of time, effort,and money.

[97Valk_CT_Euless]

Cutter, I guess I'm going to have to get a lesson on how to push/pull the wheel w/o messing with the pipes.  Totally eluded me how to do it.

[PhredValk]

Raise the bike, remove the shocks, lower the bike and remove the axle above the pipes. Raise the bike and remove the wheel. No problem.

I have a Falken Ziex ZE-512 205/65R-16 on back, and love it. Changed it out before riding after winter two years ago, so I would have to get used to riding anyways.
New...

At 17K miles last summer...

I expect to get 40K miles on this tire. At just over $100 delivered and $31 to install it's going to replace four MC rear tires at $280 each.

two days riding in the rain north of Lake Superior told me I will never go back to a MC tire, ever.
Fred.

[Novavalker]

I'm on my third General Tire HP Altimax 205/R60- 16 and get about 33,000 KM or 20,000 miles. My advice is to start at a higher pressure maybe 35 psi for the first 500 miles and then decrease it to find the sweet spot. For me that's 32 psi. I run a Avon Cobra on the front at 42 psi. I find the cobra and Altimax is a very good combination for handling. My friends (one on a Valk and the other on a an ST1300) have both switched to car tires.
Picking the right tire and maintaining your tire pressures is critical.

Lots of good info here:
http://forums.delphiforums.com/DarkSiding/messages/?msg=2805.1

[Hook#3287]

I've only got about 50 miles on my first Taxi tire and I've got nothing but positive feelings so far.

I installed it myself, as I have all my tires except the first way back in 2000, and it went on pretty easily, no issues.

I went with the Austone mainly because I didn't want to do the "nut cage mod", in case I didn't like the CT.

I got a D404 for the front, but haven't installed it yet.

Pretty sure I'll be going Double Darkside, from now on, as I need new tires.

[Grumpy]

Thanks for the good information, guys.  Seems like the overall consensus is pretty good, and I am really leaning toward a CT.  I don't want to have to mod bike for a trial run, but I also don't want any scraping, rubbing or puckering!  I do have Two Brothers 6-into-6 pipes, and wonder if they might in the way of anything.  I am interested in this Austone Taxi tire, especially if it has the wear of a CT with good handling characteristics.  I found it reviewed by a Valk rider who seems to really like it

http://www.goldwingfacts.com/forums/5-general-motorcycle-discussion-forum/378140-pictures-austone-taxi-tire-valkyrie.html

and I think that could be the tire that rolls me over to the Dark Side.

I am no mechanic, but had a (very cool) offer from a regional VRCC member (this forum ROCKS)   to check and grease my bike's splines and throw on a new rear tire this coming spring.  I just bought my Tourer with 14,400 miles in August and  had it to almost 20K when I winterized it in mid November, so it is high time to check and service them thar splines!  Anyway, would installing this tire be any more difficult for him to do than a bike tire?

I  have been running an Austone Taxi tire for a little over 6,000 miles. It does not have the bad handling most car tires have. No following ridges and tar snakes etc. To me I cannot tell much difference from a motorcycle tire. I have run, goodyears, and several other dark side tires, did not like the extra steering effort etc, this tire has none of that.

[Hoser]

I had a nail in the rear CT. Rather than plug it I went ahead & converted back to an Avon 180/70. I did, despite the CT flat, feel more confident in the CT durability over the long haul. It's just the low speed ill-handling issue was too much for me.
I sometimes wonder why some of you guys are getting such bad mileage from your MC tires. Kim's Valk has 17,000 miles on a set of Avon Cobras & they look like they could go another 10,000. I routinely get 17,000 miles from Avon front but rarely get a chance to wear out a rear due to nails.  If I get a flat, I replace it as soon as possible.
I'm totally neutral on the CT/MC tire issue. Run what you feel comfortable with, just know there are differences. 

+1  Hoser 

[deadwood]

The only way to find out for yourself is to do it.
I did and won't go back.

[Tropic traveler]

 I run a Hydro Edge 16 205 65 and would never go back to a motorcycle tire, it has a few issues you need to get used to on certain type grades and so forth but other than that the tire is all benefits. I believe it even looks alot better, One of my complaints about The Valkyrie is 5th is to low and the 65 cured it about 50 % but a 70 would cure it totally.

          Is there anyway to mount a bigger tire than a 65 or get more run out out of 5th ?

See Grumpy's post for the taller tire that may do the trick. 

Here is a pic of a HydroEdge 205/65 next to a 180/70 Avon tire.


Glad you like the HydroEdge on your bike. I did not. 

[Grumpy]

 I run a Hydro Edge 16 205 65 and would never go back to a motorcycle tire, it has a few issues you need to get used to on certain type grades and so forth but other than that the tire is all benefits. I believe it even looks alot better, One of my complaints about The Valkyrie is 5th is to low and the 65 cured it about 50 % but a 70 would cure it totally.

          Is there anyway to mount a bigger tire than a 65 or get more run out out of 5th ?

With the Austone. 3000 rpm, 70 mph by the GPS

[PhredValk]

What size Austone taxi tire are you guys using? I'm interested but need a tire that is taller than stock...
Fred.

[JaysGone]

Ive been Darksiding for over 30 years.
Whatever bike Ive owned with the exception on my Heritage.
The time a new rear was needed.
A CT.
It does indeed become instictual.
Ive had no negatives in many many miles.
Some say its not so great in ruts.
I dont have anyplace I ride that has ruts, so I cant say.
Average tire life on most bikes. 25-30K.
Add a rear on the front and go double dark, even better.

[Tropic traveler]

 What did you not like about it, I am 320 so that may have something to do with it. I can see if you do not have alot of a ss these tires could be a issue.

What I did not like about it was how the squared off profile of the HydroEdge handled at low speed. I found that 28 psi worked the best to minimize the bad low speed handling. It required considerably more leaning effort to get the bike to turn in parking lots or low speed. I'm 248 lbs & plenty strong enough to make it happen but I just found it annoying enough to not want to deal with it anymore. I had it on for over 5,000 miles so I gave it a fair trial but the other positive attributes of the CT were not enough to sway me. Some have told me that there are other CTs that lessen the low speed turning effort but since I was already very happy & familiar with the handling & longevity of Avon MC tires that's where I went. I agree that the 205 CT looked totally awesome on the back of a Valk but I love the Valk more for it's riding comfort & power than my desire to look cool. Compared to all the V-Twin fine Americans out there the Valkyrie is cursed impressive looking all on it's own!
Looking at Bert's & Grumpy's Austone tires on their Valks it's hard to tell it's a CT but as a Valk rider I can see that it is a taller tire than stock. Unless Grumpy or someone else on this board I trust have some deal breaking problem with their Austones, I'll go that route when it is time to replace the Avons.  I agree that the Valk could use a little gear ratio reduction & a taller tire is about the only practical way to achieve that.

[Tropic traveler]

   That is the thing about the Valk frather than fix the obvious flaws Honda killed it, they are becoming rare on Ebay so if you want another you better get it.

      What parts should I buy for back up and how long does a clutch last?

I have three Valks so I'm set for life.
115,000 miles on the OE clutch & no problems at all on the '97. Honda "killed it" because it wasn't selling. The "gotta have a Harley" or one of it's many clones craze hit & that was the end of the Valk. People can be fine Americans sometimes. 
Have a look at the F6B that is coming soon, a step in the right direction I hope.
You have to realize the Valkyrie is essentially late 1980's early 1990's technology rolled into a bike that was aimed at the touring AND cruiser market. It was markedly different {& superior IMO} than what was offered at the time. Still holds up well present day despite it's age. Other than the Triumph T-bird & R3 I don't see anything out there that interests me at all.
Honda still has parts available for 4 banger 'Wings & even early 80's bikes. I wouldn't worry too much about that. 

[Valkorado]

I  have been running an Austone Taxi tire for a little over 6,000 miles. It does not have the bad handling most car tires have. No following ridges and tar snakes etc. To me I cannot tell much difference from a motorcycle tire. I have run, goodyears, and several other dark side tires, did not like the extra steering effort etc, this tire has none of that.
[/quote]

I think you've got me 99.9% convinced that the Austone is the one to try, Grumpy. I ride two up about half the time or less, and was noticing in those situations that even with 70 lbs. in the Progressive 416s I'd sometimes scrape the kickstand or even the inside right pipe tip, especially if cornering tightly uphill.  Hopefully the taller tire will help.  I like the idea of not winding the engine up quite so high on the highway.  I'm 6'2" and my lady is 5'11" so the extra height will probably be appreciated.

Have you (or anyone) ridden the Austone two up, and is the handling and stability still good?  Any concerns about the sidewalls when riding two up?  Also, is there plenty of clearance under the fender?  Have you noticed any scraping whatsoever?  I was reading in a Goldwing forum where some of the guys were having some rubbing (melting plastic) issues, haven't seen that reported for the Valk. 

I am guessing new bearings would also be needed.  Just the standard All-Balls Valkyrie kit or something? Other than that, no modifications required?  It sounds almost too good to be true.  Anything else I'd need to know before just ordering the cursed thing?

[Tropic traveler]

115,000 miles on a clutch? a mechanic told me that the f 6 was a car motor in a bike and that it would pull a 2500 pound car without issues. I guess your clutch mileage may atest to that.

There are many folks on this board that have gone well past my 115,000 on the stock clutch & others that have replaced the clutch sooner.

Valkorado, if Bill {Grumpy} says something is so... it's so. 

[Tropic traveler]

115,000 miles on a clutch? a mechanic told me that the f 6 was a car motor in a bike and that it would pull a 2500 pound car without issues. I guess your clutch mileage may atest to that.

There are many folks on this board that have gone well past my 115,000 on the stock clutch & others that have replaced the clutch sooner.

Valkorado, if Bill {Grumpy} says something is so... it's so.  

         Your in Ocala ? I'm in Gainesville, you should come up here and we can go to the University
and do a little stock'en  

Gainesville huh. Until 1/9 I worked in Gainesville, traveled up there at least 5 days a week. I quit my job there & start another tomorrow in Leesburg. Way more familiar than I ever wanted to be with G'ville.  ???
I actually live south of Silver Springs. When I rode the bikes to work I came in from the east thru Cross Creek on 325 to 20 then on to Main St. where I worked. Nice ride once I got out of G'ville.
I'm sure we'll cross paths soon. Check the Florida board for lunch rides that we put on many times a year. Went to one Saturday in Welaka, a good time was had by all!

[Tropic traveler]

I worked at Gainesville Ford Lincoln Hyundai for about a year. I agree there isn't much to like about Gainesville the city & the lib nonsense seems to be standard among college towns.
I like Ocala much better as a town to live in but since the dealership in Ocala I worked at for 17 years was sold in 2010 I've had to go out of town for better paying employment.
Can't tell you much about the present day Ocala women as I caught my Ocala girl 25 years ago. 


We'll see you out there!

[ipmedic]

Been dark for a year. GYTT. Run 38psi. After 20 miles, don't even know it's there unless someone comments! Over 20,000 on it now and shows almost no wear. I will never go back!! Best Choice I made for my Valk!!