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hotglue #43
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« on: January 22, 2013, 06:48:46 PM » |
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Well.. went in to do regular maint. on the rear end and found the pinion and shaft in VERY bad shape....
Full of dusty rust and the splines are almost not there.... one good twist of the throttle.. and it would be slip city...
I have checked them on a regular basis, 10,000 miles.... and they were always in good shape. What I found this time when I pulled the pumpkin from the swingarm was: oil in the swingarm housing, and the pinion cup was bone dry....
After tearing everything apart, it seems the oil seal under the pinion lock ring..( the one under the pinion cup) was leaking and not allowing the oil in the hub to reach the pinion cup intake holes. The hole to lube the pinion cup were clear, it just seems the oil could not reach them . At least that is the best sense I can make of it. The oil seal on the drive shaft appeared worn and dry...
I will be replacing the pinion cup, and the oil seal and o-ring under it... and the drive shaft and oil seal on it.
I really think the oil seal under the pinion cup is what caused the problem. I think it lowered the level of lube in the hub enough to not let it oil the pinion cup. It leaked into the swingarm housing... but did not leak out and onto the ground.... I would have found that...
Ordered parts tonight, will put it back together when they come in.
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 blue=3 times green=at least 4 times When they are all 'green'.. I'll stop counting. |
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BonS
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« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2013, 07:05:29 PM » |
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So, do you think that if you had checked the lube level in the pumpkin that it would have been low enough to raise the alarm? I have to admit I never check it between changes. I'd always thought that I'd see lube dripping or being slung if there was a leak.
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hotglue #43
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« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2013, 07:21:22 PM » |
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I would have thought I'd see a leak if I was losing fluid.... but not so in this case. there was a good amount of oil in the swingarm housing. I wish it had leaked... there is not a gasket between the swingarm and the housing.
Good news is... $130 in parts with shipping, and I'll be back on the road.
Can't believe the pinion and shaft went bad that fast.
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« Last Edit: January 22, 2013, 07:27:38 PM by hotglue #43 »
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blue=3 times green=at least 4 times When they are all 'green'.. I'll stop counting. |
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BonS
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« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2013, 08:44:41 PM » |
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Not to question the wisdom of Mother Honda but perhaps a small weep hole at the bottom of the swing arm at the flange would let this problem be visible before so much damage was done. Sorry about your bad luck but thanks for making it public. I know that I'll be checking my oil level way more often now.
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longrider
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« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2013, 09:40:47 AM » |
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when I remove the pumpkin i always apply a mixture of half grease half moly the same as the rear drive oil can still get there but it should never go dry
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sandy
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« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2013, 10:43:00 AM » |
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HG: What type and how much grease do you put on the drive shaft? I lube the shaft and pinion cup as if no drive fluid gets in there. After 132K, I still have no wear showing on any splines.
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hotglue #43
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« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2013, 02:38:14 PM » |
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I used a moly lube on the shaft and pinion cup. Just a nice coating on each... not globbed in there. when trying to pull the shaft from the cup, it was full of rust dust.
I'm really thinking the oil seal under the cup had failed. There was oil in the swingarm, and none in the cup.... the holes were open...
It may have lowered the level enough for the cup not to pickup the oil....
At any rate, new parts are ordered, including both oil seals and the o-ring under the pinion retainer ring.
Hopefully this will fix the problem.
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blue=3 times green=at least 4 times When they are all 'green'.. I'll stop counting. |
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Valker
Member
Posts: 3011
Wahoo!!!!
Texas Panhandle
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« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2013, 05:17:14 PM » |
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Mark, every single time I used the 60% moly stuff, I ended up with rust and wear. I switched to non-moly grease (I use Amsoil Race 2000-YMMV) and have no issues with dryness or rust since. That is MY experience, not trying to start a contest here.  |
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I ride a motorcycle because nothing transports me as quickly from where I am to who I am.
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whitestroke
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« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2013, 07:26:44 PM » |
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When your saying the seal UNDER the pinion, do you mean the seal that goes around the pinion.? Part number please if handy.
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Minibike
Honda S90
Yamaha YL100
Bultaco 250 Matador
Bultaco 250 Pursang
Yamaha 250 YZ
Triumph 650 Bonni
Honda ATC 200
2 Kids 25 year break.
Suzuki GS 500
2003 VTX 1300S,
1998 Valk standard
2008 Goldwing
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hotglue #43
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« Reply #9 on: January 24, 2013, 09:15:48 AM » |
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« Last Edit: January 24, 2013, 09:18:07 AM by hotglue #43 »
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blue=3 times green=at least 4 times When they are all 'green'.. I'll stop counting. |
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hotglue #43
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« Reply #10 on: January 24, 2013, 01:39:56 PM » |
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Mark, every single time I used the 60% moly stuff, I ended up with rust and wear. I switched to non-moly grease (I use Amsoil Race 2000-YMMV) and have no issues with dryness or rust since. That is MY experience, not trying to start a contest here. I use a Bel Rey moly grease. not the honda paste. |
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blue=3 times green=at least 4 times When they are all 'green'.. I'll stop counting. |
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whitestroke
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« Reply #11 on: January 24, 2013, 05:04:00 PM » |
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Did you measure the amount of fluid in the final drive? there should be 150ml in the final drive. If it's low I would agree with your failure analysis.
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Minibike
Honda S90
Yamaha YL100
Bultaco 250 Matador
Bultaco 250 Pursang
Yamaha 250 YZ
Triumph 650 Bonni
Honda ATC 200
2 Kids 25 year break.
Suzuki GS 500
2003 VTX 1300S,
1998 Valk standard
2008 Goldwing
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hotglue #43
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« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2013, 05:31:32 PM » |
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Did you measure the amount of fluid in the final drive? there should be 150ml in the final drive. If it's low I would agree with your failure analysis.
It was measured... it got low when it leaked past the oil seal into the swingarm. |
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blue=3 times green=at least 4 times When they are all 'green'.. I'll stop counting. |
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97Valk_CT_Euless
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« Reply #13 on: January 25, 2013, 05:44:38 AM » |
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If I remember right, Honda says Moly GREASE in the pinion cup, and MOLY PASTE on the final drive splines. ???
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BonS
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« Reply #14 on: January 25, 2013, 06:17:29 AM » |
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If I remember right, Honda says Moly GREASE in the pinion cup, and MOLY PASTE on the final drive splines. ???
The other way around. |
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97Valk_CT_Euless
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« Reply #15 on: January 25, 2013, 06:31:36 AM » |
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Scared me when you responded with that, because I thought I'd been pretty paranoid about following the manual exactly when I rebuilt the final drive. Just went back and checked. It's calling for Moly Paste (Grease gun symbol with "MP" on it) for the final drive to driven flange splines, and Moly grease (a grease gun with "M" on it) for the pinion cup. Just sayin....
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BonS
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« Reply #16 on: January 25, 2013, 06:52:12 AM » |
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I shouldn't post before my coffee in the morning, sorry.
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97Valk_CT_Euless
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« Reply #17 on: January 25, 2013, 06:55:24 AM » |
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Lol... Woke ME up! Thought I was about to have to tear it down again!  |
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quexpress
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« Reply #18 on: January 27, 2013, 06:45:51 AM » |
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If I remember right, Honda says Moly GREASE in the pinion cup, and MOLY PASTE on the final drive splines. ???
Yes! Many have screwed up the pinion cup by using paste in that location. |
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I still have a full deck.
I just shuffle slower ...
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hubcapsc
Member
Posts: 16788
upstate
South Carolina
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« Reply #19 on: January 27, 2013, 06:50:02 AM » |
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If I remember right, Honda says Moly GREASE in the pinion cup, and MOLY PASTE on the final drive splines. ???
Yes! Many have screwed up the pinion cup by using paste in that location. One of the first few times I did the maintenance, I used moly paste in the pinion cup... The next time I looked in there:  -Mike |
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sandy
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« Reply #20 on: January 28, 2013, 04:58:43 PM » |
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If I remember right, Honda says Moly GREASE in the pinion cup, and MOLY PASTE on the final drive splines. ???
This is correct. I use Valvoline Durablend Moly grease. It has a 3% moly content. That goes on the drive shaft (both ends). Wheel splines I used Bel Ray waterproof grease. Recently (20K ago) switched to Lucas EP #2 on the wheel as a test. BTW: I and other pro mechanics in my area don't believe the theory about gear oil moving up into the splines to lube it. Lube the pinion splines as if that's the only stuff in there. In 132K miles, I've never seen any gear oil in my pinion and the original shaft and cup are still in the bike. |
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