Carb sync

[Gavin_Sons]

When I got my bike it had sat for several years. The carbs were all gunked up. I took it to a local guy that builds high hp pulling truck motors to see if he could fix it. He pulled the carbs and cleaned everything with an ultra sonic cleaner and put back together. It runs good but im thinking it could use a carb sync since he didnt do that at the time he cleaned them. Where can I find a set of gauges to do this? Would be great if someone near me had I set.

[Grandpot]

There's a lot of info on this in the archieves.  Some guys use a single gage, some use six at once.  I built a manometer with six riser tubes and a common reservoir.  I filled it with red automatic transmission fluid.  The transmission fluid is safer to use than colored water in the event you have a high vaccuum and pull some into the carbs.  This is a very accurate gage and is cheap to build.

Search the archieves and go with whatever trips your trigger.

[Gavin_Sons]

Id rather use 6 so I get a more accurate sync. I may end up building one like your talking about.

[Patrick]

I'm in the single gauge camp. One gauge, tubing, forceps, screwdriver, and a plastic '  T ' and you're good to go. Honda wants all to be within 1.6 in/hg , thats still a big variation. A needle width on a gauge is about .5 in/hg.

[mmurffy03]

I use the Hondaline 4 gauge sync tool that the dealers use or this one

[Thunderbolt]

sync tools are like noses.  Everyone has one but they are all different.  I like the Twin Max.  I just did mine today.  Takes about 10-30 seconds per cylinder.
http://www.adventuremotorcyclegear.com/twinmax-p-28.html

[pancho]

There's a lot of info on this in the archieves.  Some guys use a single gage, some use six at once.  I built a manometer with six riser tubes and a common reservoir.

I'd like to see some pictures of that rig... 

[Gavin_Sons]

Found a set of 4 gauges on ebay for 70 bucks. Says they are for honda, maybe ill buy them just so I have a set when I need them.

[fudgie]

I use a single and takes less then 10 min and all are set perfect with each other.

[Gavin_Sons]

Well jusr head on down this way and show me the ropes.

[fordmano]

Just the flavor I liked, your mileage may vary.

	powered by Aeva

There ya go for what it's worth.

[AZdougness]

I am using a very similar setup to fordmano as well. One thing to note, is you need to get a mighty-vac and test each gauge for proper readings, and make notes if they are slightly off (you can see his in red under each gauge.) This is one of the downsides to using 6 gauges, unlike a manometer that will all read the same unless the lines are not bending or changing diameter. The other downside is the cost of buying 6 vacuum gauges, I recommend mcmaster carr.

[fudgie]

Well jusr head on down this way and show me the ropes.

Wish I could.  I got training till July and along with work, its screwing up my ride time. 

[97Valk_CT_Euless]

I built the multi-tube manometer too.  One suggestion, try Marvel mystery oil in the tubes.  The tubes I used are on the smallish side, but the marvel is alittle thinner and works better in cold weather.  First time around I had tranny fluid in it and it wirked fine, but it was 90 deg out.  A couple of weeks ago was a bit chilly and the tranny fluid that was in it didn't want to move alot...  Swapped it out and it worked fine.

[PSUbag]

I use a single and takes less then 10 min and all are set perfect with each other.

Anyone have a link on how to do it with 1 gauge. I've got around 115,000 miles and my carbs have never been touched    

[Patrick]

I don't know if there is a link to using the single gauge,but, its been brought up many times.
I just use a single gauge connected to #3. In that vacuum line I stick in a ' T ' . Tubing is connected to every intake [marked/numbered] and run to the rear and plugged with golf tee's. Whichever cylinder you start with, connect it to the ' T '. Clip Forceps on that line and read #3. Clip off #3 and read/adjust the other cylinder to match #3. Continue with all cylinders. If fan comes on, wait till it stops before adjusting. Keep engine speed the same thru out this procedure as it may pick up doing this. Blip the throttle after each adjustment. I go thru them a couple times. It took longer to write this than to do it. Just try to make sure that the correct line is clipped off and that only one line is being read at a time. It can be easy to forget and read both lines or the wrong line.
Good vacuum gauges will have a damper, if not, you will need to restrict/pinch the line to it until the needle just barely oscillates. I don't like to restrict until the needle stops, I like it always moving just a bit.

[Ricky-D]

Six are so much easier and more accurate I think.



***

[Gavin_Sons]

I bought a set of 4 gauges

[whitestroke]

Here's my H.F. setup in action.  Gauges on sale $10. each & drip water system valves 10 for $12.

http://www.youtube.com/embed/1imfVbe9V7w

[Gavin_Sons]

I like that bike, dont see many white ones. Mine was white with purple flake once upon a time.

[Grandpot]

Here's a link to a photo of a six tube manometer.  If the link doesn't work, go to the Old Tech Archieve and search for "sync".  This should be one of the first that shows up.  This is not mine, but it is the one I used as a model when I made mine.  Like the song says, "She's ugly, but she sure can cook."

http://www.valkyrieforum.com/forum/tech_archive.cgi?read=1414944

The big advantage this style has is you get to see all six carbs at the same time and you don't have to worry about a gage being out of calibration, just make all the levels as close to the same as you can.

[Gavin_Sons]

Im going to order 2 more gauges so I have a set of 6.  Im going to test them all on #3 carb to see how close they are.

[matt]

Ricky  what kind of gauges are those?  I like that set up went to parts store for gauges they wanted rediculous money.  And where did you get them?  Thanks Matt

[fudgie]

I use a single and takes less then 10 min and all are set perfect with each other.

Anyone have a link on how to do it with 1 gauge. I've got around 115,000 miles and my carbs have never been touched    

I just hook it up to #3 and take the reading and then go around to each carb. Sometimes I check them again. I do have a small needle valve inline to keep the gauge needle from bouncing so much.

[Gavin_Sons]

The ones I ordered comes with needle valves and 5 mm tubing and several different adaptors. Is it just as easy as  taking the vacuum caps off and putting the gauges on and adjusting the screw? I know you wait for the fan to be off but is it really that simple?

[pancho]

Here's a link to a photo of a six tube manometer.  If the link doesn't work, go to the Old Tech Archieve and search for "sync".  This should be one of the first that shows up.  This is not mine, but it is the one I used as a model when I made mine.  Like the song says, "She's ugly, but she sure can cook."

http://www.valkyrieforum.com/forum/tech_archive.cgi?read=1414944

The big advantage this style has is you get to see all six carbs at the same time and you don't have to worry about a gage being out of calibration, just make all the levels as close to the same as you can.


Now that is what I am talking about,,,, pure, home made and as accurate as you can get!!  I wonder if that is a good height for using ATF... 48 inches or so??  I don't quite get how that pipe resivour works in the one in the picture,, but I get the idea.

[fudgie]

The ones I ordered comes with needle valves and 5 mm tubing and several different adaptors. Is it just as easy as  taking the vacuum caps off and putting the gauges on and adjusting the screw? I know you wait for the fan to be off but is it really that simple?

Yea its simple.  I was surprised how simple it really is once your in there. Have you adjusted the pilot screws yet?

[Ricky-D]

You can hook all six gauges up to a common manifold to be able to compare each one to all the the others.

Took me ten gauges to come up with six all pretty close to each other.

***

[Brian]

I use the Hondaline 4 gauge sync tool that the dealers use or this one

Hey guys,
Notice the Honda gauges have a range of 0 to 30 in.Hg.  I have always heard that your are better off if what you are looking to read is as close as possible to the mid range of your gauge. Here the Honda gauges will give a more accurate reading verses a gauge with a wider range.  I too am a fan of using the single gauge. Every gauge has its own mechanical inaccuracy and buying cheap you get what you pay for. I built my test rig on the same principle as the one in the shoptalk section using one gauge. The mechanical inaccuracy is not an issue using the same gauge. The Honda gauges here are all reading zero. The ones below them are not, so there is already a reading issue. The better gauges can be adjusted mechanically verses pulling the needle off the shaft and the pressing it back on or you have to remember that it is off zero. I would use the manometer method with the common fluid holding tank before using the multiple gauges.

 Each of us here have a wide range of experience so like what was said before, to each their own.

Just my two cents.

[Gavin_Sons]

No, have not adjusted pilot screws yet.

[Gavin_Sons]

Just ordered the tool from red eye

[Gavin_Sons]

Whats the best way to adjust the pilot screws? Sngu them down then back them off 2 1/4 turns? Im assuming it has stock jets. And how do you know they are set right?

[O-B-1]

There's a lot of info on this in the archieves.  Some guys use a single gage, some use six at once.  I built a manometer with six riser tubes and a common reservoir.  I filled it with red automatic transmission fluid.  The transmission fluid is safer to use than colored water in the event you have a high vaccuum and pull some into the carbs.  This is a very accurate gage and is cheap to build.

Search the archieves and go with whatever trips your trigger.

I am going this route myself. I made one for my Shadow... Each end of a 6' tall loop hanging down tacked to a 1x4 board went to a carburetor w/Stabil fluid in it. When the fluid was even in both sides, sync was achieved. Checked it through the RPM range and averaged out any differences as the throttle opened and closed. Stabil being lighter than mercury would probably be more sensitive, therefore more accurate, I would think, no?

Since #3 is the reference carburetor, I guess I could tie #3 vacuum port to one end of each of the five other tubes as a common reference using tees, and the other end of each loop ties to the 1, 2, 4, 5 & 6 carb ports.

Theoretically this should work I would think....

[fudgie]

Whats the best way to adjust the pilot screws? Sngu them down then back them off 2 1/4 turns? Im assuming it has stock jets. And how do you know they are set right?

Yup do it as you just said. I made marks on my pilot tool so I can count my turns. Do it before your carb sync.

[Patrick]

Pilot screws ? It depends on your meaning of 'snug'. Barely seat them then back off 2.25 turns. Do not tighten them much as you will damage them.

[Patrick]

A little addition. I remove the pilot screws, cut a screwdriver slot in them and add a dab of never-seize to the threads and install them. Then adjust the carburetors.

[Grandpot]

For those of you that are thinking of building the six tube manometer here's some points to be aware of:

1. The PVC reservoir is the only common connection between the tubes.  Do not "T" any tubes together.

2. Using a light weight fluid will cause the levels to jump up and down a lot.  Mercron ATF dampens the jumping and seems to work best.

3.  All six tubes must be connected before starting the engine; otherwise air will be sucked into the tubes that are not connected and cause the ATF to get sucked right into the carbs that are connected.  Makes a great insect fogger. :-)

4. When you adjust one carb, you will immediately seen an effect on the others.  Keep tweeking until they are almost all the same.  An inch or two difference is plenty accurate.  Remember, you are doing this at idle.  When you are riding above 2,000 RPM it won't make that much difference.

5.  When doing this procedure, run a window fan in front of the radiator.

[fordmano]

You can hook all six gauges up to a common manifold to be able to compare each one to all the the others.

Took me ten gauges to come up with six all pretty close to each other.

***

This is exactly why I purchased 7 guages got lucky they were all very close, definatly close enough for this task.
I think I only gave in the $4 range per guage then I used brass air shut off valves (so they would stand up to any fuel or fuel vapor and heat) from fish tanks to act as my dampning source for each line I think I gave about $1.50 each for those. Found my guages and valves online gauges from EVIL-Bay and valves were from a fish tank suppy store (Aquacave.com I think).



With 6 guages there is no guess or estimating or remembering what you saw on the last carb. I ain't the sharpest tool in the shed so I needed any way possible to make it easy.

Like another said to each to there own, whatever works best for you is the way too go.

Too test the guages and the valves I made up a little manifold with brass "T's" and attached everything together then applied a constant vacuum with my mightyy vac and left it over night when I came back there was ZERO vacuum loss and I was able to note down each gauge as to what the readings difference was and they were all .5 or less different from one and another.

[Gavin_Sons]

Is it best to sync at idle or 3000 rpm? I have read both

[mmurffy03]

curious to see what most bikes read on there gauges at idle ?