Changed out my camshafts

[Chillerman]

I posted awhile ago about possibly changing out my California cams for the 49 state cams. Well I went ahead and did it. I ordered new camshafts from HDL and they were at my house in about 10 days.

 They gave me the part numbers for the 49 state cams as I didn't know which was which.


I started out by removing the timing belt cover.


And marking the cam pulleys. I got a chance to use my fingernail polish 


Then I used my universal pulley holder PN 07725-0030000 and loosened the driven pulley bolts on each side.

 
I only did one side at a time and started on the right.


I removed the cam end cover and the valve cover.


Then I removed the camshaft holder. The cam came out with the holder and oil seals on the right side. I was more careful on the left.


I couldn't physically tell the difference between the cams but the CA cam said R2 and the 49 state cam said R1.


Lubed up the new cam with a mixture of moly grease and engine oil and packed the front oil seal with grease. Used ThreeBond 1521 where the manual required.


Reinstalled everything in reverse order and then did the left side. After making sure everything was in alignment and buttoning up, I started her up for the first time. The idle was a bit lower than usual and the exhaust note was a little throatier. I didn't get a chance to ride it much, just around the block but it seems very responsive compared to what I was used to. I hope it runs like the non-Cali 1999 I used to have. I will get back with a better review when I have a chance to ride 

[fudgie]

What kinda price for those? Any other engine mods done on the bike?

[Chillerman]

What kinda price for those? Any other engine mods done on the bike?

$222.10 each from HDL  http://www.hdlparts.com/fiche_section_detail.asp?section=2552026&category=Motorcycles&make=Honda&year=1998&fveh=132668. I've also desmogged, ect mod, replaced the Cali carburetors with 49 state and added Interstate  carb springs. If I had known in advance I would not have bought a California bike.

[dago mooserider]

Ya, keep us posted what your butt dyno says. I may do this as well

[fudgie]

So the cali models have diff cams then a reg valk?

[pancho]

Good post,,, looking to hear the final evaluation.

[Chillerman]

So the cali models have diff cams then a reg valk?

Yes, and different carbs. My California carbs sitting on my bench have 6 extra ports for emissions. I don't know what else could be different. The horsepower of the California bikes is said to be around 10 HP less than the 49 state bikes. I hope to gain that back. I plan on going for a good ride today before the snow falls again, hopefully I will see a difference.

[Hoser]

Ya, keep us posted what your butt dyno says. I may do this as well

Better yet, run it on a dyno and show us.  This is my best dyno run on my 49 state tourer with the other mods you did and a restrictor tip from Grumpy on my truck stacks.   Hoser

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[Chillerman]

Ya, keep us posted what your butt dyno says. I may do this as well

Went for a short 30 mile ride today. Wow! The old girl runs like she hasn't before (she runs like my '99 did) especially in 1st and 2nd gears pulling from lower RPM's. I started twisting the throttle a bit more than I am used to because the difference was so noticeable. I don't know if I gained 10hp but I sure gained some low end torque  .

Unfortunately another storm front is coming in and I probably won't be able to ride again until next weekend. The prognosis looks good though and I think it was worth the money spent. As Hoser says the true test would be from a real dyno.

[Patrick]

The shop manual shows a big difference in the timing which actually can be somewhat seen in your pictures. I'm not sure if there much of difference in lift, but, that can be easily checked.

[98valk]

tech manual states no difference in cam lift just the timing of the lobes.

all US carbs are the same bore size, jetting, etc. no difference btwn 49 state and ca. as it is known the I/S carbs are the same except for the slide springs.

[Chillerman]

tech manual states no difference in cam lift just the timing of the lobes.

all US carbs are the same bore size, jetting, etc. no difference btwn 49 state and ca. as it is known the I/S carbs are the same except for the slide springs.

I've seen you repeat this over and over that there is no difference in the carbs. I can tell you for a fact that there is a physical difference with the extra 6 ports on the outside for emissions. Whether there is any difference with the float or the float orifice or anything else on the inside I do not know. I know the jet sizes were the same.

[Chiefy]

Ya, keep us posted what your butt dyno says. I may do this as well

Went for a short 30 mile ride today. Wow! The old girl runs like she hasn't before (she runs like my '99 did) especially in 1st and 2nd gears pulling from lower RPM's. I started twisting the throttle a bit more than I am used to because the difference was so noticeable. I don't know if I gained 10hp but I sure gained some low end torque  .

Unfortunately another storm front is coming in and I probably won't be able to ride again until next weekend. The prognosis looks good though and I think it was worth the money spent. As Hoser says the true test would be from a real dyno.

Good for you.   

[Patrick]

Needles are different on the '97s.

[98valk]

tech manual states no difference in cam lift just the timing of the lobes.

all US carbs are the same bore size, jetting, etc. no difference btwn 49 state and ca. as it is known the I/S carbs are the same except for the slide springs.

I've seen you repeat this over and over that there is no difference in the carbs. I can tell you for a fact that there is a physical difference with the extra 6 ports on the outside for emissions. Whether there is any difference with the float or the float orifice or anything else on the inside I do not know. I know the jet sizes were the same.

the extra vacuum ports would not affect performance.

[98valk]

Needles are different on the '97s.

only the stock #s are different, the tapers are the same.

[Blackduck]

The taper maybe the same but the needles are about .0005" thinner, that is slightly richer than the later needles.

[98valk]

The taper maybe the same but the needles are about .0005" thinner, that is slightly richer than the later needles.

is that US spec or aussie spec?

how are u measuring that small, are u a machinist?
is your digital caliper calibrated by a certified lab to be accurate to that small amount?

parts dept info in '00 showed only a stock # change and no difference in the part. same for carb #s, tech manual shows no difference in carbs, bore size, jetting etc.

I have dyna jet, cobra and viking needles in the shop, they are exactly the same, factory pro needles are different and what I use.
haven't come across a set on '97 needles to check for any difference.
I have a set of unmolested '97 exhaust pipes, the head pipes (I.D.)are exactly the same as my '98 pipes.

[Blackduck]

No Caliper, would be too hard to get consistent readings.
Used a Dial indicator with a jig to hold and position the needles to take readings at the same point reference from the clip
Checked 6JKG (97) and 6JKB (later), beleiuve there is also a different needle number for Switzerland.
Checked Factory Pro and Cobra's, Cobra's being the richer. These were checked with the clip at the top, bottom and middle setting.
Fiddly work and checked each several times to ensure the readings were consistent.

[Red Diamond]

Chillerman, I picked up an 03 California bike, that has been desmogged and had to replace the left side cam because it was broken at the front near the pulley. I have a set of used 49 state cams, but am hesitant to used them, they came out of a blown engine that was overheated. I was told that maybe I should change the carbs also, but see no need to do that if they are the same, except for the additional vac tubes that would normally go to the canister. The bike only has 15K miles and I'm no hustler, so I probably would not be able to tell the difference between the 03 and my 2K Tourer.
I am also going to reinstall the smog system with reed valves and tubing for the 49 state bikes. The upper lines on the carbs will remain capped.

[ValkFlyer]

Chillerman, I picked up an 03 California bike, that has been desmogged and had to replace the left side cam because it was broken at the front near the pulley. I have a set of used 49 state cams, but am hesitant to used them, they came out of a blown engine that was overheated. I was told that maybe I should change the carbs also, but see no need to do that if they are the same, except for the additional vac tubes that would normally go to the canister. The bike only has 15K miles and I'm no hustler, so I probably would not be able to tell the difference between the 03 and my 2K Tourer.
I am also going to reinstall the smog system with reed valves and tubing for the 49 state bikes. The upper lines on the carbs will remain capped.

Red Diamond, just wondering why you are reinstalling smog system?

[Chillerman]

Chillerman, I picked up an 03 California bike, that has been desmogged and had to replace the left side cam because it was broken at the front near the pulley. I have a set of used 49 state cams, but am hesitant to used them, they came out of a blown engine that was overheated. I was told that maybe I should change the carbs also, but see no need to do that if they are the same, except for the additional vac tubes that would normally go to the canister. The bike only has 15K miles and I'm no hustler, so I probably would not be able to tell the difference between the 03 and my 2K Tourer.
I am also going to reinstall the smog system with reed valves and tubing for the 49 state bikes. The upper lines on the carbs will remain capped.

Red, you are welcome to my old cams. They are in good shape and only have 16k on them (I know I don't ride nearly enough). I have no use for them and I'm not sure anyone would buy Cali cams on purpose  . PM me if you are interested.

Also, I've been told by several members that their California bike didn't run as well after desmog and changing the carbs fixed the problem. For what it is worth.

Sean

[Red Diamond]

Thanks Chiller, very kind of you to offer them. I ordered a cam little over a week ago from HDL, I'm not sure if I could even cancel that order now.
When I get it all back together, I'll see how she runs, if not good, the carberator change will be in order. I do have a set on another rescue bike I'm working on.

Thanks again for the offer.

[Red Diamond]

I sent you a PM on the cams.

[98valk]

any updates,  mpg difference, any dyno #s etc.,
thanks

[indybobm]

Needles are different on the '97s.

Also, the parts list shows a different part number for the 97 Vacuum Piston. Any idea why that is?
What is the difference?

[Patrick]

Needles are different on the '97s.

Also, the parts list shows a different part number for the 97 Vacuum Piston. Any idea why that is?
What is the difference?

I don't know, but, would like to.

The part numbers between the '97 and later carburetors are different and the only difference I knew of were the needles. That would lead to the different part numbers.
It would make sense that the pistons could also be different and I would like to compare them.
Guess I should buy an unmolested '96 or '97.
Its common to supersede part numbers all the time and I think this has happened with our carburetors as well. The same goes for our camshafts, I believe. Its been reported that the '97 shafts were different from '98 and later units, but, they are no longer available and the number has been superseded. I've wanted to measure them for the last 15 or 16 years.
There just aren't many Valkyries in this area, which suits me fine. But, most folks still have no idea what they're looking at when they see one.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Needles are different on the '97s.

Also, the parts list shows a different part number for the 97 Vacuum Piston. Any idea why that is?
What is the difference?

There just aren't many Valkyries in this area, which suits me fine.

?