Lithium Battery question

[GJS]

Has anyone installed one of these in a Valk?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/271206268389?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

It appears that it may be 5/64" to wide/deep.

Anyone know if the battery compartment could take it anyway?

I am wanting to get the battery because my existing battery is only a year old and does not seem to hold a charge well at all. I have been forced to jump start twice recently. The battery would turn the engine over, but there was just not enough uuumfff to the spark to set things in motion.

I installed an upgraded 85amp alternator two years ago and since then the battery does not charge well at idle. My hope is that the expanded capacity would carry me through the low rpm city riding to the later higher rpm riding.

With a fully charged battery the phat girl starts almost immediately every time. With a battery only slightly down she turns over, then I jump start her. When I do jump start, it is like I just woke the Dragon, she is ready to rock. No issue with spark then.

Thanks,


GJS

[Michvalk]

Have you checked the alt. output? Even new ones go bad.

[gordonv]

+1, check your alt output first.

Then check this out.


web, prices. http://www.shoraipower.com/c-1-batteries.aspx

sizes, http://www.shoraipower.com/downloads/lfxspecs.pdf

Find one that fits in your bike, with the CCA you want. It will be smaller than OEM.

[GJS]

I assume by 'Check your output first', that you mean the output voltage.

My battery with the bike off is 12.8v

Bike just started with full choke @ 2500-2600 RPM, reads 13.8v.
Bike warmed up 2 minutes with full choke @ 2600-2700, reads 13.6v.

Bike idling at 850rpm, reads 12.6 and fading.
Bike @ 1100-1200 RPM reads steady 13.2v.

With my GPS on and my fog lamps on (2x45W) the battery voltage drops to less than 12v after a couple of minutes idling. In a rush hour situation I can have 20-30 minutes waiting at various lights.
As long as the bike stays running I'm fine, but if it stops I'll need to jump start it.

I'm hoping a high capacity battery could carry me through the slow times with all my lights on, that's when I want them the most.

Gordon,

Thanks for the links.
I am hoping to install a battery of the capacity in the first message.
I'd like to get a 28AH (Amp/Hour) battery, the Shorai battery is a 21AH battery.
A 21AH battery may be my only choice though. the 28AH battery is tiny bit too wide and the polarity is backwards. We need the Neg terminal on the right, not the left in my example of the 28AH battery.
The other difference is 500 Cold Cranking Amps vs. 315.

Having said all that the standard AGM battery our bikes use is 12AH and 200CCA.
So the Shorai would be a definite step up, fro sure.

Thanks,

GJS

[Farther]

In a rush hour situation I can have 20-30 minutes waiting at various lights.

Maybe it's time to vary your route or your comute start time or move to Horse Fly, BC.  ???

[GJS]

Yeah, that is real pretty country.
http://www.horsefly.bc.ca

But since I like it here so much, I think I'll try and solve my charging issue before considering moving 

I may have to go back to my stock alternator. Maybe just replace the brushes and clean it up.
It was fine when I upgraded to the bigger unit.

I am wanting to do more cold weather riding this fall. I have invested in full heated clothing, Pants, Gloves, insoles and jacket liner. My wife (if she comes) will be also warmed with gloves and Jacket liner. I don't want to be out in the cold with a cooked alternator.

In addition to the heated clothing I have stock Interstate fog lamps, a Garmin 550 GPS wired in, the CB and about 200 blue LEDs that I like to have on in the rain and at night. As well, I have an additional 50 red LEDs and 50 Amber LEDs in the Radiator pods that come on with my turn signals and brakes.

I may need to install a 'rush hour' switch to quickly disconnect the additional circuits (heating, fog lamps & LEDs) in addition to switching them all individually.

Still workin on it.....

GJS

[Sparky51]

I would not sweat the LED's but certainly heated clothing and extra lights could be an issue.  Of course you could pretend to be a Harley rider and goose the throttle at the lights! 

[gordonv]

In a rush hour situation I can have 20-30 minutes waiting at various lights.
As long as the bike stays running I'm fine, but if it stops I'll need to jump start it.
GJS

Come on Glenn, traffic jams in little old Nanaimo? You don't live in Vancouver, but you do come here sometimes. 

With how light these batteries are, how about moving one to each saddle bag?? With all that gear and accessories you want on your bike, ya, you need something a little more if you'll be idling like you think. How about also raise the idle rpm a little higher, might be just what you need for those waits (run it up to just over that 1100 13.6v range).

[98valk]

http://www.rattlebars.com/valkfaq/#ELECTRICS

ALTERNATOR: OUTPUT: 546 WATTS & 14.2 VOLTS @ 3500 RPM
The Valkyrie is equipped with an honest to goodness alternator located under the plastic chrome cover (which says "HONDA") on the left side below the petcock. Born of the notoriously over lighted and accessorized Gold Wing and driven by a gear directly off the crankshaft, it has an output of 546 Watts and 14.2 volts at 3500rpm. Unlike many motorcycles, once started your bike will run off the alternator alone without the battery in the circuit, but it's not a good idea to do so as the voltage drops at idle. This alternator is a strong beast (like the Valkyrie) so turning on your high wattage headlight, running lights, spotlights, custom lights, radio, CB, heated clothing and your cappuccino machine will probably do nothing more than make it proud of itself.

For the curious, here's what I run off the stock alternator:
100/90 headlamp
twin 35 watt spots
twin 55 watt Lazer Stars
two 1157's up front (TS & running)
two 1157's on rear (ditto)
two 1156 for custom under lights
two 192's in the instruments
EIGHTEEN 192's for lighting the engine
FOUR 4" strobe lights
one NEON under the swing arm
one 1157 tail light (run and stop)
one (forget the number, but it's a high watt courtesy light from a car) to light the license plate
another one of those as a second brake light
one 4" Signal Dynamics LED for another extra brake light
two 192's to light the side of the tail light under the Highway Hawk cover
one 192 under the bar clamp to light the clock
SIX license plate bullets in various places
Heated gloves
Heated Jacket liner
Heated socks

[GJS]

Victoria is where I live Gordon.

My problem would only be worse if I lived in Vancouver.

I'm considering replacing my fog lamps with Cree LEDs, very bright at 1/2 the power of the Halogen H3 lights.

I checked with the vendor and confirmed the 16 cell battery I want does not come with the Negative terminal on the right, only the left.

Cheers,

[GJS]

Thanks for the list and link CA.

That must be getting very close to the capacity of the alternator.
I'm close to that with the extras I have, including an additional Std rear brake light. (All with higher power 1157s). My rear signals are also running lights.

I could maybe go to Cree LEDs for all my 1157s,that would about 1/2 the consumption.
The problem may still arise with two heated Clothing sets though.

Thanks,

GJS

[John Schmidt]

First, you shouldn't have to use the choke that much....if at all. Unless it's near freezing temps, these bikes will start without it, and even then only limited use at best. As for the fog lights, I don't use my extra driving lights unless I'm moving at a good clip. Changing over to all LED's is a good plan, cuts the power usage waaay down, and most LED's available now will far outshine that 1157 hands down. Everything on my Valk is LED except the headlight and driving lights...which are 35w sold by Adjure and are as bright as most 50w. This is with the brake on, but while moving most riders that follow me think I'm riding the brake because they're so bright. My feelings are....if you have a so-called "high output" alternator installed and that's all it will do, you got screwed.

[John Schmidt]

Radiantz.

[GJS]

UPDATE:

So I went ahead and purchased a 16 Cell, 500CCA, 28AH Lithium Ion battery.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/271206268389?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649
Bit pricey, but I had another use for it if it did not fit/work.

I had to install the battery with the posts at the back of the box and create two 2" extension cables to bring the posts forward. This was not a problem as the new battery is 1/4" shorter and not as wide. I dropped the extension cable down and beside the new battery. The cables emerge right where I can bolt them to the existing cables. I used a 4 gauge stranded copper and solder on lugs to make the cables.
The new battery is not as wide or tall but just slightly deeper, it fits snuggly into the battery box as a result.
 
Anyway....

Now when I am at a stop light my headlights and fog lights don't dim while I idle for a few minutes.
And WOW does she ever start with enthusiasm! Once press of the start button and she is instantly running.
I used to have to turn her over a few time before she took, now she starts instantly, even cold.

I plan on a few longer fall/winter rides this year and I am now comfortable that the electrical system is capable of all the extra load. (both my wife and I will be in full heated liners (Jacket, Pants, Insoles and gloves), in addition to all the higher powered headlights/fog lights, 1157s and 100+LEDs)

Cheers,

GJS

[salty1]

GJS what is the voltage output with your new battery in place? As was pointed out in an earlier post, you should be getting readings in excess of 14 volts above 3000rpm.

[Cosy]

When in town I have to turn the driving lights off.
Specially in hot weather the cooling fan draws a lot of juice from the battery. So if the battery is not in pristine condition you need to conserve as much power as possible in slow start-stop traffic.

[GJS]

Salty:
Yes, the voltage is 14.3 @ 3000rpm, before and after the battery upgrade.

Cosy:
That is really why I went for the upgrade.
I was finding that my Fog lamps and headlights drew down the battery while I idled @ 850-900 rpm to the extent that I would have trouble starting the bike later, unless I got in a good highway run to bring it back up.

I just got in from a short evening ride and could really notice the difference at stop lights.
With my old battery the headlights and fog lights would noticeably dim at idle.
I could pulse them by revving the engine a little up and down.
Now I just have a steady beam, unless I really rev it up. It still gets brighter if I go over 2000 rpm.

And......
I'm really liking the instant start thing. One push of the start button and she runs!
Having a strong spark to start off with really helps. I wasn't expecting that, but it makes sense.

Cheers,

GJS

[MarkT]

I didn't check the capacity of my battery, but having read through this thread I didn't see much about your battery having sufficient capacity for that alternator.  I upgraded my alternator to a Compufire 90 amp about 10 years ago and found right away the battery needs to be larger too.  I ruined 2 standard sized Yuasa batteries right away until I went to a big Gold Wing battery.  I had to modify the battery tray with a Dremel, and aligned the battery North-South as it would never fit East-West. No more problem.

http://www.horseapple.com/Valkyrie/Tech_Tips/Compufire/compufire.html

[Daddie O]

I am a big fan of using a Battery Tender Jr. even if I am riding often (which I do).  Keeps the battery at full charge, and the batteries last many years like that (7 yrs or more).

[Sam Shlitz]

GJS,
I'd like to install a battery you did, however, would I need to replace my alternator as well?
Or you think a stock alternator will be able to handle this battery?

[GJS]

Stock alternator should be fine.

I'm very happy with the new battery.
We Just came off a 12 day road trip with no surprises.

Like I mentioned earlier, I love the way she starts with enthusiasm now!

You will need to make 2" cable extensions.

Good luck .

GJS

[Sam Shlitz]

Thank you GJS for the info.
Would it be too much to ask if you can take some pictures of the extension cables you did?
I purchased the same battery and do not want to reinvent the wheel since you already invented it.
Thanks again.
Sam

[iliveforcurves]

GJS, there are a couple of things you need to know about lithium batteries.  First, they don't have good cranking ability when they are cold.  You have to turn your lights on to cause some drain on the battery to get some heat into it before it will have enough juice to crank.  The other thing is they require a different kind of trickle charger than lead acid batteries.
I had a Shorai in my Yamaha FJR 1300 and it would hold me up on cold mornings when it wouldn't crank right up.  I never had any need for a battery charger because the bike was ridden often, even in the winter.

[gordonv]

That is nice to know about the cold cranking might be a problem, never heard that before.

Also about a different charger, but that doesn't make sense, since you aren't changing the alternator also, that also is a charger.

With only a 1% per month discharge, you shouldn't need a charger anyways over the winter. For me, I live in a townhouse, with a No Repair Work on your vehicle, and no place to plug in the charger, and need to remove the battery into the house to place it on a charger, this long life in storage is what was selling me on buying this battery.

I'd like to know more if others have the same problem.

[Rocketman]

I'm thinking your problem really resulted from the low voltage at idle.  Someone above suggested tweaking up the idle a bit.  It might not have taken even 100 rpms to bring it up to charge.  I think I'd still look at that, just for peace of mind on long idles, to make sure you're not draining the battery.

Mark

[GJS]

Thank you GJS for the info.
Would it be too much to ask if you can take some pictures of the extension cables you did?
I purchased the same battery and do not want to reinvent the wheel since you already invented it.
Thanks again.
Sam

Hi Sam,

Sorry for the delay in getting back to you.

I am not near the bike right now so pictures can't happen just now.

But simply put....
The battery is not as wide as stock nor as tall, but is a hair thicker.
It fits snugly in the battery box with room to drop the two inch extension down and along the sides.
I used braided copper cable the same size as the stock battery harness uses, and soldered lugs of the correct size to the cable ends and then shrink wrapped them.
I bolted and wrapped old terminal ends to the extensions and thats it.

All is good so far.

I don't regret the upgrade at all.

This battery carries the load while wonderfully while at low rpm and charges quickly when I get to higher a rpm.

I'll post some pics once I get back.

It will be interesting to see how the battery performs once November hits (as mentioned above).
It does get close to freezing overnight here in November. After November, she goes inside and it does't matter till February/March again.

Cheers,

GJS

[Sam Shlitz]

Thank you GJS. I've got the idea. Wish me luck.
Thanks agin