Clutch Problems

[valkmc]

On a trip from Detroit Michigan to Ocala Florida my clutch acted up. I had difficulty finding neutral unless I shut the bike off (as sson as the bike is off it shifts into neutral)and the clutch lever has to be pulled all the way to the bar. The clutch does not slip although the bike shifts hard. I changed the fluid just before I left, the gut at the store talked me into using, the dot 5 synthetic brakle fluid. Has anyone had problems using dot 5? Anyone got Ideas on the clutch, the bike is a 98 standard and has 65,000 miles. I put everyone of the miles on myself and I am fairly easy on the bike. Thanks

[Valker]

First, DOT 5 is NOT AT ALL compatible with DOT 3 or 4. 5.1 is, but it is not worth dealing with. I would immediately change out the lines (they are that incompatible) or flush them well with DOT 3 or 4. If the problem doesn't go away, it will either be the clutch "bushing" needing replaced or, worse case, the dampener plate rivets going away requiring a clutch replacement.

An escerpt: "On the practical side, beware that glycol and silicone brake fluids are hugely incompatible with each other. Mixing even small amounts will create a sludge that looks amazingly like Italian salad dressing and is about as effective as a brake fluid -- meaning, not. Of further consideration is that, in some cases, the hardware designed for one fluid will not accept the other. Brake caliper and master cylinder seals, hoses, and other parts won't always work correctly when the type of fluid is changed."

From this page: http://www.motorcycleproject.com/motorcycle/text/cows-brakefluid.html

[greggh]

The Clutch lever bushings might be going out.
Do you have any up and down movement within the clutch lever?

Check ou this post.

http://valkyrie-owners.com/SMFORUM/index.php?topic=8124.0

[Ricky-D]

That's a real shame.   

The correct fluid is indicated on the top covers on the handlebars.

Probably changed to some chrome bling without noting the information supplied.

[valkmc]

Thanks for the help, I looked at the clutch lever bushing, it seems fine, it fits tight around the pin. I also went back and looked at the container of brake fluid I used, it is synthetic DOT 3 & 4 fluid not 5. I will most likely try changing it and using normal DOT 4 fluid. I think I am headed to a clutch replacement, if so I am disappointed, seems like a clutch in this bike should go father than 65,000. My last bike was an 84 Honda Shadow which I got rid of with over 80,000 and had no clutch problems.

[DeathWishBikerDude]

Any chance you have chrome levers?
Chrome levers have known problems chewing up the clutch master cylinder.

[Robert]

This really doesn't sound like the kind of problem that requires the replacement of the clutch usually when they go you will get a solid stop half way down on the lever or inconsistency with the release or engagement. I would agree that a flush and good bleed are in order then check to see whats up. It really sounds like there is air in the system. keep us posted

[sandy]

There's nothing wrong with mixing synthetic DOT 4 with conventional fluids. Ya can't mix DOT 5 silicone with any others. There are 2 bushings in the clutch handle. The one that wears out is the one that pushes on the master cyl rod. It's a $4 part at a Suzuki dealer. All metric hydraulic clutch bikes use the same bushing. Change the bushing and reflush the fluid. I'd guess your problem goes away.

[Ferris Leets]

I second the idea of rebleeding.  Sounds like air in the system, your clutchis not disengaging when the lever is pulled.  Could be a bad master or slave but the first thing to do is rebleed the system.

[valkmc]

No, luck so far. I replaced the fluid with DOT Synthetic fluid (Valvoline) which is compatable with DOT 3 & 4. I bled it until I was sure the air is gone, actually I went way past what I needed to to make sure there is no air. Now as I shift I notice the handle stops a short distance from the handle bar. Still hard to find nuetral and shifting requires more force then normal for this bike. I am puzzled because if I can't find neutral all I have to do is shut off the bike, wait a few seconds , turn the key on w/o starting and she slips right into neutral. I looked at the bushing in the handle and it looks fine, there is a little play up and down but not much, I also inspected the push bar on the end of the handle and it also looks fine. Anyway to test the clutch itself without taking it (bike) apart?
The clutch does not slip well I am riding.

[six2go #152]

I had the same symptoms earlier this Spring. I did the "bleed the system" thing too with no relief. I took it in to my trusted dealer because I'm not a wrench & don't want to be. They contacted the Honda Tech Line & it was suggested that the basket had grooves worn in it & was causing the lever stoppage & the clutch not engaging smoothly. It would also engage within 1/8 inch of releasing the lever. When they tore it down they found sheared rivets & the afore mentioned basket damage. I told the Service Dept. to "make it new again", So I got an entirely new clutch & all is well.

[valkmc]

Sixtogo, what did the repair cost you? I do not trust my local dealer at all. The were recently bought out by a very large company and they do not impress me at all.

[six2go #152]

The bill for my new clutch, including 4qts of oil & filter came to just a bit over $1000. I feel badly for our members who don't have trustworthy dealerships to fall back on when needed. I can handle most of the usual maint. chores but this clutch thing was beyond my desires to tear into, mostly cause I have a tough time crawling around on the garage floor anymore. My dealer is a family owned business in a small town & just celebrated 40 yrs. in business. . This was the 1st money that I have spent on REPAIRS on my Valk since I bought it from them in July of '98. Maint. yes, but no repairs to this point.

[Tropic traveler]

Valkmc, I would take a deeper look at the bushing in the handle. I had nearly the same symptoms on my '97 & upon taking the handle apart inspecting the bushing closely it was SHOT. The push rod coming out of the clutch m/c had nearly eaten all the way through the brass bushing, severly limiting the pull of the clutch handle. $25 worth of parts & 30 minutes of labor and it was good as new. That was at 85,000 miles or so.
I replaced the handle, bushing, & pivot bolt. I hear you on the local Honda shop. I go to Leesburg {Champions} or HDL when I need anything other than easy stuff!
I see you are in Ocala. Give me a shout if you want!  
[/quote]

[valkmc]

Thanks, just for the heck of it I am going to replace the bushing and push rod before I start any huge tear down. The local Ocala dealer will not have it and will charge shipping if I buy it from them, the last time I needed something I asked them why I would drive over to their store order something and pay shipping when I can do the same thing without getting out of my chair.  I use Champions in Leeburg they have alot more in stock, I also go to Cyrstal River Honda they have more in stock also!!

[99valk]

ValkMC,
I just went through the exact same thing with my 99 std.  I have 40K mile mostly city driving and I am not very gentle.  I like to ride it hard.
Anyway, the clutch started acting weird, but not slipping.  It would not pull all the way in and sometimes it would stall the bike when I would stop.  After bleeding an checking electronics to see if something else was killing the engine I took the cover off the clutch and found rivit heads.  Three of the wave springs actually were loose inside the housing.  I ended up ordering all the plates and new inner clutch since mine was chewed up by the loose springs.  Total costs of parts was about $450 from the local dealer.  Next time I will just order over the net and save more money since they had to order everthing anyway.
Work was not real bad.  If you have a service manual it gives each step.  If you have an impact wrench you do not need any special tools to remove the inner clutch.  Just one pull of the trigger and the center nut spins right off.  I did not have a press so I took the inner clutch to a dealer to remove the circlip that holds the whole thing together. $20 dollars for them to do five minutes of work was worth it to me.  I paid $20 more for them to press the clip back in.  One thing to make sure you do before you press the circlip back in is to dry fit the inner clutch in the bike to get all the tabs aligned.  Much easier to do little adjustments on the tabs after the circlip is on then major adjustments.
Bike runs fine now.  I guess that since most of my miles are stop and go traffic and not long highway trips it is much harder on the clutch.  I have had the bike for 10 years and this is the first major repair.  I consider that great.

[valkmc]

99VALK,

Thanks for the info, I was going to order the Honda Clutch tool that the dealership said I needed to complete the work. I think I'll take her apart first. I have an impact wrench so I should be alright.

Did you take a look at the Barnett Kevlar clutch plates before you ordered the OEMs, I am considering them but would like to hear from someone who has tried them before I buy.

I bought my bike in 98 new, I do not ride hard at all and I am a little disappointed the clutch is out at 65,000. I have had one other major repair, it was electrical and went out at biketoberfest a few years ago. I was stuck so the dealer repaired it and it cost me $400. The connection at the end of the wiring harness cracked and allowed two wires to come in contact, the result was if melted the whole assembly. It is actually attached to the harness so at first they wanted to put a whole new harness on. I went of to borrow a trialer to get her home and the lead mechanic decided he could fix it by attaching each wire seperatley, he did a great job and allowed me to watch. the fix has been there four years and is great.

[99valk]

I looked at the Barrett clutches, but a few people talked me out of them saying they were really designed for racing and not normal everyday driving.  As others have stated, I just went with the OEM since they seem to hold up for most drivers. 
I talked to the dealer about the rivits and he said that they would see that problem with the police bikes that they maintained.  Seems if you do a lot of hard city driving it takes the toll on the rivits.
Eleven years and 40k miles of Valkyrie fun is worth $450 to me.

[valkmc]

Tear down in progress, I removed the clutch pack and the 3rd plate with the rivets is shot. After I took the pack out I took it to a local performance shop and they used their press to remove the snap ring, only charged me $5.

I ordered eveything I need from HDL. including new dampers (rear wheel)and inserts for them also. Hope it doesn't take to long the bike is on the lift. I tried going through a local dealership but the price difference was way out of line. For the 3rd plate alone HDL price $47.00 local dealer $75 and I had to drive 20 miles to order from them.

Should I worry about metal anywhere else, New oil and filter will be going on and I cleaned the area inside the clutch cover?   

[Jeff K]

Be sure there isn't any heavy grooves cut in the basket.
Clean the sump screen

[99valk]

Like Jeff said wipe out all the oil and pull the little plastic oil screen to make sure everything is clean.  The rivit heads are too large to fit through the screen.  If your wave springs were banging around inside like mine you need to make sure the inner clutch is not damaged.  If the outer is marker up the manual says you can clean any rough areas with an oil stone.
Good luck.  The tear down is the hard part.
Make sure you lube all the new plates with clean oil as you are putting it back together to prevent parts from sticking.