Gettysburg Bikeweek

[Bob E.]

For those that went on the blue-grey ride, I thought this might be interesting.  A friend of mine who grew up in Gettysburg just sent me this link to a newspaper article about a Gettysburg Bikeweek this coming weekend.  I had no idea they even had a bikeweek.

http://www.gettysburgtimes.com/articles/2009/07/07/news/local/doc4a53206419763867397081.txt

The really sad part is the comments posted by readers at the bottom.  Seems the biggest complaint is about the noise.  When will some people learn that loud pipes do not save lives, but actually hurt our hobby/sport/passtime? ???  I like good sounding performance pipes as much as anyone.  But those straight pipes that are loud just for the sake of being loud are just plain annoying.

Also, it turns out that I'll actually be heading back out there next week (after bikeweek).  My wife couldn't go on the b/g ride, but has always wanted to go to Gettysburg.  After I came home and told her about everything I saw and showed her my pictures and everything, she got all excited about going.  Well, this weekend, my mother-in-law offered to take the kids for a few days so me and my wife could get away.  So...off to Gettysburg we go.  I even convinced her that we should take the bike!!  All it cost me was a nice hotel room (versus camping)...LOL!!   Should be fun!

[Willow]

Based on the tone of the article and the responses, it sounds like a place I don't really want to be.  I'm not really crazy about being in a crowd of 14,000 motorcycles in a tiny burgh anyway.

I for one am totally convinced that loud pipes do save lives.  I know it can be overdone.  There's no doubt about that, but the sight of people's heads snapping in the direction of the bike as it passes convinces me that sound makes a difference in the awareness of the driving public.

People who don't like motorcycles simply don't like motorcycles.  If you give up what they claim to dislike they'll just come up with one more item and one more and one more.

When you arrive at solving the noise issue, you may be surprised to find that what you think is loud and what someone else thinks is loud are three different things.

They can keep their Gettysburg bike week.  I'll go when there are only a hundred twenty or so Valkyries roaming the streets. 

[3W-lonerider]

gettysburg bikeweek is not that bad..not even close to thunder in the valley as far as size or congestion. the wife and i volenteer over there parking bikes every year..the rally itself is not held in gettysburg as far as closing streets down..most of the rally is held 5 miles out of town at the gettyburg conference center. and some venders are set up at battlefield harley. and willow..i hate to disagree with you on the loud pipe subject. but to tell you the truth..i read a report one day put out by abate of pa. and it said..insurance statistics compiled over a 10 year period on motorcycle accidents. that bikes with loud pipes were in more accidents than non loud pipes..wish i could find that article..but i need to do more searching for it. i personaly like a nice sounding set of pipes..but there is a big difference between loud and just plain obnoxious noise. when the rider of a bike wears earplugs because he does'nt want to listen to his pipes screaming. what makes him think anybody else wants to hear it.

[Willow]

and willow..i hate to disagree with you on the loud pipe subject. but to tell you the truth..i read a report one day put out by abate of pa. and it said..insurance statistics compiled over a 10 year period on motorcycle accidents. that bikes with loud pipes were in more accidents than non loud pipes ... but there is a big difference between loud and just plain obnoxious noise. when the rider of a bike wears earplugs because he does'nt want to listen to his pipes screaming. what makes him think anybody else wants to hear it.

It's okay to disagree with me.  I'm a bit opinionated.

Statistics are mathematical science.  The interpretation of statistics is highly subjective.  People tend to see what they want to see in the numbers.  In this particular study I suspect that the definition of loud differs from one to another.  I'm not sure that stat is even collected properly at accident scenes.  I know that no one asked me if my pipes were load (they weren't).  My pipes were not OEM.  That, in most stats makes them "modified" which the right statistician will interpret to mean "loud".

I agree with the difference between pleasingly toned and obnoxious.  The problem with that is whether we use your scale, mine, or Grandma Eunice's.   They simply are not the same.

I wear earplugs much of the time.  People who don't ride in the wind ignorantly assume that a rider wears plugs to protect himself from the sound of his pipes.  I honestly can't hear my pipes on the flyway with or without earplugs, but the noise of the wind will deafen me.

Forty miles per hour, seventy-two year old lady, small Ford, not highly insulated.  It's only my guess, but I think that possibly had I been riding the bike with the louder pipes in the moment before she turned, though she hadn't seen me she may have become aware of my presence from the sound.



Everyone's entitled to an opinion.  I like mine and I'm not particularly offended or even bothered if some else doesn't.    

[Tundra]

+1 for ear plugs, all the time  (for two reasons)

[Bob E.]

...but the sight of people's heads snapping in the direction of the bike as it passes convinces me that sound makes a difference in the awareness of the driving public.

I think this is exactly where the theory of "loud pipes save lives" is flawed.  When a bike is approaching, the sound isn't all that loud.  But when the bike is going away...after having passed the car...this is when the noise is loudest.  In an accident avoidance/prevention situation, it would be too late for the pipes to have had an effect.

I do agree with you on the statement about statistics could be skewed, and your statement about differences of opinion as to what is loud, though.  I have neighbors complain about the noise from my ATV when I ride it in the field behind my house, and it has the original muffler on it.  I don't think it is loud at all...sure you can hear it, but it isn't loud.  In the case of 3W's stat of bikes with loud pipes being over-represented in accidents, if you think about it, HD's and V-twin Clones make up probably the largest percentage of bikes on the road.  These are also probably the largest percentage of bikes with modified, loud, straight pipes, with sport bikes making up a close 2nd with some of their aftermarket race pipes.  In the cruiser and sport bike world, aftermarket pipes are one of the first modifications that people make.  So it makes perfect sense that these bikes would be over-represented.

[Big IV]

"statistics lie, and liars use statistics." -Mark Twain.

Don't know why but I felt like I had to throw that in.

I was once a loud piper...but then I fell in love with the sweet whisper of my stock valk pipes.

As we walk down the streets of this summer town loud bikes roar by and I can't hear what my wife is saying over the rumble. She gets annoyed. I find it funny, because I've yet to hear a bike as loud as my CB750 that used to set off car alarms and could be heard a mile away.

Thanks for the post about Gettysburg Bike week. Had wanted to go, but my inlaws are coming into town. So I'll be playing nice around Indiana PA this weekend.

[fudgie]

I agree with Willow. Your gonna be heard before your scene. Sit in your car, windows up. Which are you gonna 'see' or 'hear', a wing or a bike with straight pipes in your blind spot? Those that say, 'the noise comes out the back so you cant be heard till your passed' is nonsence. I can listen outside and hear pipes 3 miles down the road. I know when I move over in my truck, I look and listen to be sure no one is around. No one says anything about muscle car exhaust.
As far as people hating the bikes, Sturgis is the same way. Residents want the rally closed. But when we dump millions of dollars in 4 counties its a different cry. Having 400,000+ bikes visiting a city of 6,000 can get hectic. Were gonna be hated no matter if we run quiet exhaust or not.
At the B/G ride last month i pulled into the Italian village for supper. Parked and started to walk in. A guy in his 80's stopped me and ask 'why does your bikes have to be so loud?' Huh? I thought he was kidding but he wasn't. I said 'their not'. 'try standing on your front porch and have a normal conversation!'. I said 'these are hondas!' He walked away and his wife smiled and patted me on the shoulder.  ???

[solo1]

I respectfully somewhat disagree with both Carl and Fudgie.  The loud pipe sound is behind the motorcycle.  As far as distance, sure sound travels in circles like ripples in a pond and you will hear sound at a distance.  If it were true that sound can somehow change directions from where it is pointed, then sirens on emergency vehicles could be pointed to the rear too with equal results, they aren't.
At the Sound conference that I attended in Columbus, the loud pipes theory was presented by a person with a big chip on his shoulder.  A Honda rep, a down to earth guy, told the presenter something like this "Bullsh$$!!!, You just want to make yourself out as a bada$$ while pissing a lot of people off in the process"   My feelings exactly!

Having stated my opinion, I will say that stock pipes leave me somewhat cold too.  There is a nice medium such as my son's Viking's pipes and other "mellow" pipes. I especially like fiberglass packed mufflers. 

 I guess where I have a problem is with riders that install straight pipes, no baffling or packing whatsoever.  The attitude seems to be "Up yours" with no regard for the noise pollution that people object to. I have mentioned this before but I'll say it again.  When my wife was a month away from dying, it was hard for her to sleep.  Generally, she would finally doze off at 6AM which was the same time that the ARSEHOLE down the street would roar past with his straight piped Harley. 

Sorry I got carried away but to me this is very personal!  That's why I've never joined the Patriot Riders even though they ride for a very good cause.  Too much noise(read that STRAIGHT pipes) always brings bad memories for me.

[Willow]

I respectfully somewhat disagree with both Carl and Fudgie.  The loud pipe sound is behind the motorcycle.  As far as distance, sure sound travels in circles like ripples in a pond and you will hear sound at a distance.  If it were true that sound can somehow change directions from where it is pointed, then sirens on emergency vehicles could be pointed to the rear too with equal results, they aren't.

Wayne, I respect you far too much to allow you to remain in a misconception.  Whereas sound is somewhat directional, it bounces off too many surfaces to remain that.

Your example actually contradicts your premise.  If the siren pointed to the front of an emergency vehicle were only heard from the front, you would never hear a siren as the vehicle travels away from you.   

Incidentally, I don't think my TBR pipes are all that loud.  Some do.  Loud is such a subjective term.   

[Scott in Ok]

Incidentally, I don't think my TBR pipes are all that loud.  Some do.  Loud is such a subjective term.  

They ARE loud.

-Scott

[Willow]

Incidentally, I don't think my TBR pipes are all that loud.  Some do.  Loud is such a subjective term.  

They ARE loud.

I'm sorry, I couldn't quite hear you.  I've been having some trouble with my ears, but I'm wearing earplugs now and I'm sure they will get much better.

 

Incidentally, this observation may support my position as Scott almost ALWAYS rides in front of me.   

(My sincere apologies to Bob for having hijacked his thread.)

[solo1]

I can see your point, Carl.  I wasn't quite thinking correctly.  I should know better since I spent 24 years working with sound in environmental testing.  I guess that I'd better get a little more technical in saying that if you were to measure the sound coming from a straight exhaust , the decibel reading would be much higher at the rear of the motorcycle than at the front, probably on the order of 12 db.  Every 3db doubles or halves the sound. Also at twice the distance the sound drops by 4.

Llmits on sound in db on the A weighted scale for dirt bikes in formal competition is  96 db measured 20 inches from the exhaust tip.  It is a good compromise and is enforced because of a requirement for this activity.

Limits on new road machines, Fed regs Title 40 chapter I , is 80db measured under controlled conditions second gear acceleration at 50 feet (EPA F76A Passby test).  It remains 80 db after sale.   This is impossible to enforce as is obvious.
So communities demand ordinances like "If the officer is able to hear the sound at 100 feet"  which is absolutely unfair and depends on the LEO.  Our city has such an ordinance but it's just window dressing

Since I've never ridden a bike with straight pipes I don't know how loud that is to the rider. I do know that I wear earplugs under my helmet because of the low frequency noise of the wind passing by the helmet. However, I also know that I have a hearing loss anyway.

I also know that hearing aids are expensive (1500-2500 bucks each) and they don't replace your hearing that you were born with, i know because I have a set.  Those 24 years of testing didn't help me AND I wore hearing protection. 

Makes me kinda wonder if there will be a lot of former riders of bikes with straight/loud pipes saying "huh? What did you say" when they get old and feeble like me, but I digress.

I'll not bore any one with any more talk on this subject.  I know when to quit.

[Bob E.]

(My sincere apologies to Bob for having hijacked his thread.)

No problem...hi-jack away!  This is actually probably one of the longer running threads I've created.

Also, Solo1 is right on the money.  We do noise impact studies for roadway construction where I work.