Clutch problems...please help!

[big poppa pump]

Completely bled and changed the clutch fluid over the weekend. Clutch engages fine when I shift and take off from a complete stop. However if I am in gear with the clutch pulled in, eventually the clutch starts losing pressure and starts inching forward and then it dies.

I've never dealt with a hydraulic clutch before (all my old bikes had a clutch cable) and I am not sure WTH is going on over here. I don't mind doing the work myself if somebody can point me in the right direction and tell me if something needs to be checked/rebuilt. I would like to avoid taking it to the mechanic unless it's the last resort.

It's a '98 Tourer with about 20k miles on it.

PLEASE HELP ME!!!!!  

Thanks...BPP.

[blackpearlghost]

I'm gonna have to go with it's about time to do clutch servicing, namely changing the clutch friction  plates.  You may or may not want to reuse the steel rings that separate the friction plates.

My bike did the same.  I purposely rode it until they gave completely out (actually got quite a bit of mileage by "babying" the shifting).  I was lucky - it happened just about 7 minutes down the freeway so it wasn't a big deal, but when they go, you don't! LOL

[sandy]

You don't mention mileage on your bike. I have 136K on my '98 Tourer. Have had no clutch problems. Your problem sounds like the master cylinder needs rebuilding.

[Dorkman]

Was the clutch acting the same (losing pressure and causing creep) before you changed the fluid and bled it?  If so, then likely you need to rebuild the master.  If not, you may still have air in the lines and need to bleed again.  You will find several posts re getting air out of the lines.

[Bigun]

At 20k miles I dont think it would be the plates these girls have some heavy duty components and the clutch is one of them. Try bleading it out again my guess is a air bubble.

[big poppa pump]

Was the clutch acting the same (losing pressure and causing creep) before you changed the fluid and bled it?  If so, then likely you need to rebuild the master.  If not, you may still have air in the lines and need to bleed again.  You will find several posts re getting air out of the lines.

Yes.

[big poppa pump]

I really hope its a stupid air bubble. Really don't want to be dealing with either damper plates or rivets.

[Dorkman]

Try the simple stuff first.  Bleed, bleed, bleed.  Here's a good link:

http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,58234.msg557669/topicseen.html#msg557669

[blackpearlghost]

My apologies, I missed the 20k miles only on the bike!  The guys are right - simple first.

Bleeding the clutch - yes.  For both the brake and clutch, I use that trick of placing a block of wood (maybe 3/4 to 1 inch thick) between the clutch lever and the handgrip, then squeezing the lever against the block and bungeeing it off; I remove the clutch reservoir cover and let it sit overnight which allows the air to bleed out by itself.  I am always so amazed at how well it works!

[big poppa pump]

Thanks for all your advice. Another couple of things I've noticed:
1) Almost impossible to find neutral when I come to a complete stop.
2) Shifting feels hard, like I have to almost stomp on the clutch pedal to switch gears.

[Christbiker]

Clutch pedal???

[Hook#3287]

Think he meant shifter pedal.

Do the bleeding or the "hold the clutch lever in overnight" and if that doesn't solve it you probably need to rebuild the clutch, not really a big deal.

The hardest parts are removing the clutch basket 22 mil nut and lining up the plates on reinstall.  A impact wrench is very helpful. 

Pretty easy for a novice mech, real easy for a pro.

[Patrick]

Your responses are confusing. Well, to me they are. But, I'm easily confused.
Is the clutch acting the same way as before the fluid change ? If so, I agree one of the cylinders may need attention. If not, its got air in the system. Either way bleed it again. And again.
Just a reminder. to bleed; Squeeze, hold, open, close, release. Repeat, repeat, etc. Don't let the cylinder reservoir go dry.
If that doesn't fix it, then either of the cylinders are bleeding/leaking down. However, I find to be rare.

[Hoser]

Thanks for all your advice. Another couple of things I've noticed:
1) Almost impossible to find neutral when I come to a complete stop.
2) Shifting feels hard, like I have to almost stomp on the clutch pedal to switch gears.

The trick to finding neutral is to slip it into neutral while you are still moving.  Hoser 

[big poppa pump]

Thanks for all your advice. Another couple of things I've noticed:
1) Almost impossible to find neutral when I come to a complete stop.
2) Shifting feels hard, like I have to almost stomp on the clutch pedal to switch gears.

The trick to finding neutral is to slip it into neutral while you are still moving.  Hoser 

Able to do that without any problems. I can slip into neutral every time before coming to a stop without fail.

[pancho]

Hey big poppa,,, I don't believe you have a clutch problem, it is just not disengaging completely. Since the problem proceeded your changing the fluid, I have to go along with those that have suggested that one of your cylinders is leaking down or that you still have air in the system. I would try all the bleeding tricks to insure that the system has no air, and if you still have the problem, one of the cylinders needs to be rebuilt,,,, I would start with the master.

[big poppa pump]

Anybody got a link as to where I can buy the master and slave cylinder rebuild kits? I can probably do this myself. Would prefer someone other than HDL so I can get it shipped faster.

Thanks.

[silver337]

Just to make sure it is the master cylinder, if you disconnect the clutch line from the master cylinder, put a bolt in it, if it builds pressure and stops it's not the master cylinder. If it bleeds down it is the master cylinder. You can also go to the other end of the clutch line that connects to the slave cylinder put a bolt in there and it should pump up. My clutch did the same thing, I could not get it to bleed after rebuilding the master cylinder, put with a bolt in the slave cylinder end it still wouldn't bleed. It turned out to be an aneurysm in the clutch line under the gas tank, in the rubber part of the line. It drove me nuts trying to figure it out.

[R J]

You don't mention mileage on your bike. I have 136K on my '98 Tourer. Have had no clutch problems. Your problem sounds like the master cylinder needs rebuilding.

Read the next to last line in his original post.

It says about 20K.

[silver337]

Mine did the same thing with 27000, it started with it inching forward.

[pancho]

Anybody got a link as to where I can buy the master and slave cylinder rebuild kits? I can probably do this myself. Would prefer someone other than HDL so I can get it shipped faster.

Thanks.

Partzilla.com   their prices are just a hair better too.

[big poppa pump]

Rebuild kits ordered. Should get them tomorrow and will work on it this weekend.

[Patrick]

Very seldom does a cylinder go bad. I'd AGAIN recommend changing the fluid and bleeding, bleeding bleeding it.

[Thunderbolt]

Along with tying the lever down overnight to remove the air that might still be trapped in the line I would check the brass bushing where the clutch pivots and make sure it is not worn.  If it is worn it might not be allowing the master cylinder to operate the slave all the way.

[big poppa pump]

I checked the brass bushing and it looks good. No signs of wear except for some slight discoloration on the push rod. With regards to tying down the clutch lever overnight, do I just need to tie it in or is there something additional I need to do? Do I need to keep the cylinder open or do anything to the bleed screw?

Thanks.

P.S. Is the push rod supposed to be tight fit in the bushing or is it supposed to rotate in there?

[Thunderbolt]

Depress it all the way to the bar and tie it with rope or tyrap or whatever you have handy and leave it overnight, not really necessary to take off covers etc.  It worked recently for someone else although their issue was a little different.  Won't hurt anything if it doesn't fix your problem.  As far as whether the plunger should spin, don't remember if I have checked for that.  So no help on that issue.  Try the easy stuff first.

[big poppa pump]

Leaving the clutch tied overnight didn't work. Going to rebuild both master and slave cylinders and see if that works. Already had the kits delivered by USPS this morning.

[Mildew]

Y'all don't mess around. I think over over mechanicing and panicking is the biggest issues with these bikes. 

[big poppa pump]

Woohoo! I can ride again. Rebuilt both master and slave cylinders. And damn there was a lot of crud at the slave cylinder!! Bled the clutch and everything is back to normal.
Thanks for all your inputs.

BPP!

[The emperor has no clothes]

Woohoo! I can ride again. Rebuilt both master and slave cylinders. And damn there was a lot of crud at the slave cylinder!! Bled the clutch and everything is back to normal.
Thanks for all your inputs.

BPP!

AWESOME!!

[HayHauler]

Glad you for it figured out BPP!

Hay
Jimmyt

[Pjm98valk]

I've worked on everything from CAT crawlers, JD combines and KW truck tractors to mini bikes. I thought the trick to tie the clutch lever overnight was just air. Since I was having so much trouble getting the air out of my line I decided out of anger and desperation to once and for all prove that wrong and I now humbly say, IT WORKS! Thank you for the amazing tip! It is starting to get cold here but you got me back on the fat lady for a few more miles before we start getting snow and ice here in NE Oregon. THANK YOU for the great tip!

[pancho]

Yeah,,,, that saying old dogs can't learn new tricks is BUNK.........