Help with Military Base Rules

[F6RDR]

I need a little information. I'm going down to see my Daughter, Son Inlaw and Grand kids at Eglin AFB in FL.

Yeah, I know, I'll be missing IZ-9 but it can't be helped, I'll be there next year!

My daughter sais they wont let me on the base with shorts, sneakers, sleeveless shirt, and helmet. So if anyone can help me with what "Safety Equiptment" I need it will be appreciated.

PS, I just got a safety vest with a removable game bag and shell loops, so I should be ok there. 

TIA,
Steve

[3fan4life]

My son (ex Air Force):

Says that he doesn't think that as a civilian that you will be required to wear the safety vest.

He does think that you will be required to wear long pants, closed shoes and a helmet.

He said that he'll call one of his buddies there to check on the rules and call me later.


I know from personal experience that you'll need your regisrtation and proof of insurance.

[F-106]

D.O.D rules you will wear the following:
DOT approved helmet
gloves covering the fingers
long pants
boots that cover the ankles
bright color jacket or orange vest. { wally world $1.99}
insurance card and paperwork for the bike.

hope this helps.

[Chrisj CMA]

I live in the Eglin AFB area, I retired from there.

You will need: helmet w/eye protection, full fingered gloves, long sleeves, boots, long sturdy pants and a reflective vest if you dont have a white, orange, red yellow (bright) shirt on that is  not covered up in any way like with a biker vest.  I just wear the reflective vest so theres no bickering at the gate

give me a call when youre in town, we can get coffee if you have time
(850) 865-5378

[F6RDR]

Thanks Guys, That helps allot!  I'll have to remember to bring a long sleeved shirt. I'm set on everything else.


Chrisj, I'll be down there from the 24th through the 28th i think, I'll give you a call some time in there.

Steve

[SgtBunny]

Ditto on what ChrisJ said.  I have ridden on military bases before and the ones that are still open require civilians to wear the same as military.

[BF]

I road to work on Eglin yesterday and road home from work about 2300 last night.  

You'll need a DOT helmet, either a face shield or a set of safety glasses.  Ones that wrap around your eyes are best because you might get in a pissin' contest witht the gate guard.  Wrap-around sunglasses are OK.....you'll get on with those.     However, if you'll be on at night, you'll need clear lenses to get on the base.  

You'll need long pants.  

Boots or over the ankel footwear is advised, but NOT nessessary.  You CAN wear sneakers as long as they are leather and not fabric.  

You HAVE to have long sleeves.  

If you're a civilian, You DON'T have to have (you do if you're military) a safety vest just so long as long sleeved shirt is worn but it has to be a primary and solid color of white, red, yellow, orange.  However, like ChrisJ said, it's best just to go ahead and wear a bright orange safety vest anyway.  However, even with the long sleaves, you'll need the vest.  

You HAVE to have full fingered gloves.  Fingerless gloves are NOT permitted.  

You'll need driver's license, proof of insurance and a military ID to get on (unless your daughter has excort privilages and can sign you on...she'll have to come to the gate to get you).  It's my understanding that civilians don't need an MSF card for access, but military does.  



I have the base's policy letter somewhere on my computer at work (if I can find it again).  If you want, I can forward it to you (that is, if I can still find it).  It'll be Friday morning before I can send it though.  

[Black Pearl's Captain]

Hmm, better be sure on the MSF card. I could never get on McConell base housing to the kids house here in Wichita because of no MSF proof.

Raymond

[BF]

After a recent incident here with a dozen or so young airman that got caught going about 140 mph (sustained for a while too) on Interstate 10 a while back, there was a letter that re-stated policy.  In it, I think it stated that military members are required to carry and be prepared to show an MSF card.....but civilians weren't.  I could be wrong about that, but I'll try and look it up when I go back to work Thursday night. 

It still doesn't change the fact that you are required to take an MSF course in order to get your motorcycle license indorsmenet in this state...it's just that a civilian isn't required to show an MSF card to gain access to Egllin.  You are however, required to have that indorsment on your license. 

[RedValk]

ditto for the most part what the last few posts have said (from the folks at Eglin). I work on Maxwell/Gunter AFB. I ride almost daily.....yep....road to toady.....took Sherry's Rune this time.

you do NOT have to have a base sticker anymore, and as such, it is possible to come on base...as a Civilian....with ZERO MSF or course training (not so for Military of course!). They are NOT going to check you for paperwork (course paperwork, insurance, etc.) at the gate.  YOU WILL ....need proper ID to get on. Either you're going to have a CAC card or retired military ID....or....someone is going to sign you in to get on the base. There is a 100% ID check for each vehicle (for the driver ALL the time, even sometimes for the passenger when exercises are going on, etc.) THEY WILL.....usually....look at what you are wearing. that said, i did sneak on just last week...with fingerless gloves....even though that is a no-no....but, it was a "rent a cop" at the gate and here on Gunter they are not quite as up to date on the requirements as the Military Police (SPs) are.

You only have to wear REFLECTIVE....at times of low visibility....ie ....darkness....etc. You are required to wear long sleeves (i've been stopped numerous times trying to LEAVE the base in my short sleeves....they know me by name!). And the outer garment must be....per the reg....of "contrasting colors". Ie, i HAVE BEEN STOPPED....coming in on a cold morning....with my BLACK LEATHER JACKET ON. granted, only once....most gate guards let me come through with the black leather jacket....but ONCE i was stopped by a Military SP who knew the exact wording of the reg...and said "IT MUST BE CONTRASTING COLORS....a black leather jacket doesn't cut it". he saw i had a red shirt on underneath the jacket. he asked me if the red shirt underneath was long sleeves. i replied YES. he then said, take off the leather jacket....wear the red long sleeved shirt...and you ARE GOOD TO GO.

So let me get this straight, i'm more "safe"...riding in on this cold day.....with a flimsy dress shirt.....than my leather jacket that not only keeps me warm and avoids me suffering possible hypothermia...and gives me GREAT protection should i fall off. you'd rather me JUST wear the flimsy dress shirt and be cold and risk more injury? YEP.

Bottom line, sometimes in their "zeal to enforce the rules"....common sense sometimes flies out the window!

i deal with it DAILY. i try to ride EVERY day. I'm also a member of the Green Knights (the military Motorcycle CLUB....yes, we're an "MC"). We get briefed by the AF safety office EVERY MONTH at our meetings....so....i'm UNFORTUNATLEY...well versed on the current AF/DoD requirements!

did you know, the military guys....per the regs....must actually TECHNICALLY wear all that stuff 24/7....even OFF DUTY? Yep. Now, many of them don't...when they are off base/off duty. But technically, if they went down...they could do a "line of duty" determination...and....they could be screwed out of any hospital bills...at the very least! We went round and round about this very fact in our local chapter (chapter 10 of the Green Knights) bylaws. WOULD WE ENFORCE.............the rules.........that the military MUST wear all the gear...even off duty/off base? IE...if a military member shows up for a club ride on Saturday....off base....MUST THEY WEAR....ALL THE GEAR? Would we turn them away....say....if a military member shows up in short sleeves for a ride off base on Saturday?

The safety guys made them put that in the bylaws. So the military guys...when we ride to the local bike night in the dark....they HAVE TO WEAR the reflective vest, full fingered gloves....ALL OF IT....  I'm glad i'm retired military and us civilians "live by a different" set of rules/standards.

I don't even own a reflective vest. Never have. i JUST RECENTLY bought a Tourmaster jacket, which does have reflective material on it. But before that, i just made sure i had long sleeves, full fingered gloves, and NEVER CAME ON BASE at times of darkness. thus, no reflective vest required...

They also have EXACT rules on eye protection...ie....having a windshield and sunglasses, etc. IE, you CAN come on with a windshield of proper height and JUST sun glasses. you CAN NOT ....technically...come on with JUST sunglasses...unless they meet the more exacting standards others have mentioned above (wrap around, goggles, face shields, etc.). I just wear normal prescripton NON WRAP AROUND sunglasses....BEHIND my windshield...and that's ok.

Just be thankful you don't have to have a dang sticker anymore!!!!!!!!

[RedValk]

here is the EXACT verbage of the AFI (Air Force Instruction) on brightly colored/outer garment requirement:

Below is what AFI 91-207 requires as brightly colored outer garment. We are seeing a lot of military personnel wearing just their BDU/ABUs which does not meet the requirements.

 

3.4.2.4.5. Garment and Motorcycle Visibility. Motorcycle riders will wear a brightly colored outer upper garment during the day and a reflective upper garment during the night. Outer upper garment shall be visible and not covered. Wearing a backpack is authorized if it has brightly colored/reflective properties.

 Brightly Colored—Sufficiently vivid in color/reflectivity to ensure visibility from a distance.

[RedValk]

here is WHO it applies to....when....

PROGRAM DESCRIPTION
1.1. Applicability.
1.1.1. This instruction applies to the following:
1.1.1.1. All AF military personnel at any time, on or off an AF installation.
1.1.1.2. All AF civilian personnel, on an AF installation at any time, or in a duty status when off
an AF installation.
1.1.1.3. All persons in or on an AF-owned or AF-leased/rented motor vehicle.
1.1.1.4. All persons at any time on an AF installation. Includes all leased, owned, or privatized
property, including housing areas.

1.1.1.4 is US....

here are the PPE (personal protective equipment) rules. NOTE...SOME OF THEM....are not "shall"...but rather STRONGLY RECOMMENDED....there IS a DIFFERENCE!

3.4.2. Requirements for Motorcycle and ATV Operation. The following requirements apply to all persons
as listed in paragraph 1.1.1. while operating or riding as a passenger on a motorcycle or ATV.
When military mission tactics, techniques and procedures conflict with these requirements, an Operational
Risk Management analysis will be used to determine the most appropriate balance of mission
and safety. When non-compliance is found necessary due to military mission, these actions will be
documented and approved by the center, wing, installation, or equivalent commander.
3.4.2.1. Headlights. Headlights will be turned on while motorcycles and ATVs (those equipped
with headlights) are being operated.
12 AFI91-207 22 MAY 2007
3.4.2.2. Rear View Mirrors. Motorcycles will have both left and right rear view mirrors mounted
on the handlebar or fairing (not required for tactical or off-road motorcycles not operated in a traffic
environment).
3.4.2.3. Passengers. Passengers are not authorized on government owned motorcycles and ATVs
unless they are specifically designed (as determined by the manufacturer) to carry a passenger and
there is a valid operational need for the passenger to ride with the operator.
3.4.2.4. Personal Protection Equipment:
3.4.2.4.1. Head Protection. A helmet designed to meet or exceed Department of Transportation
(DOT) standards, shall be worn and properly fastened under the chin. Host nation equivalent
is acceptable if it meets or exceeds the DOT standard. Commanders may authorize use of
tactical helmets in appropriate off-road training or operating environments after completing an
ORM evaluation.
3.4.2.4.2. Eye Protection. Goggles, wrap around glasses, or a full-face shield (properly
attached to helmet) designed to meet or exceed American National Standards Institute (ANSI)
Standard Z87.1 for impact and shatter resistance will be worn. A windshield does not constitute
proper eye protection. Host nation equivalent is acceptable if it meets or exceeds ANSI
Standard Z87.1 for impact and shatter resistance.
3.4.2.4.3. Protective Clothing. Wear of long sleeved shirt or jacket, long trousers, and full-fingered
gloves are required. Gloves should be sturdy, non-slip type to permit a firm grip on the
controls. Wear of a motorcycle jacket and pants constructed of abrasion resistant materials
such as leather, Kevlar®, and/or Cordura® containing impact absorbing padding are strongly
encouraged.
3.4.2.4.4. Foot Protection. Riders will wear sturdy over the ankle footwear that affords protection
for the feet and ankles (durable athletic shoes that cover the ankles may be worn). Sandals,
low quarter sneakers, and similar footwear will not be used.
3.4.2.4.5. Garment and Motorcycle Visibility. Motorcycle riders will wear a brightly colored
outer upper garment during the day and a reflective upper garment during the night. Outer
upper garment shall be visible and not covered. Wearing a backpack is authorized if it has
brightly colored/reflective properties.
3.4.2.4.6. All on-duty riders of motorcycles and ATVs during off-road operations should also
wear knee, shin guards and padded full-fingered gloves. Security patrol requirements may dictate
limited compliance.

[3fan4life]

   MAN!  I sure am glad that all of those regs weren't in place in the early 80's when I was @ Ft. Lewis, WA.   

[RedValk]

  MAN!  I sure am glad that all of those regs weren't in place in the early 80's when I was @ Ft. Lewis, WA.   

my thoughts EXACTLY. i spent 20+ years in the AF...and....there were enough BS rules in place...to include saftey. BUT...NOT THIS MUCH! and, while you had to wear your helmet off duty too...i always wanted to anyway. But they didn't have specific rules about wearing a reflective vest OFF BASE....OFF DUTY....etc. I would have HATED that!!!!!!!!!!!  Actually....honestly.....eh.....i probably would have done what quite a few of them DO TODAY. take a chance.............and hope i don't crash............and wear what i want to off base.......

I still see young NCOs ride with me off base off duty....and wearing what i wear...sometimes...like my avatar picture on this post. but, IF they ever crashed and got caught...........

It's bad enough coming on base and living with the rules as a contractor/retired guy like i am now. But...better to be a retired DoD contractor...than be military...with THESE rules!

[Mo Lee]

Here at Ft Leonard Wood everyone on 2 or 3 wheels must have all PPE as well as MSF Safety course. Typically Air Force rules are stricter  than the other branches, maybe not in this case. You might want to check with post in advance. 

[BF]

RedValk......

Maxwell apparently isn't Eglin.  You'd NEVER be allowed on base with only a black leather jacket on.  You ride up to the gate with a black leather jacket on and you'd better have a vest on over it or you ain't gettin' on, civilian, military, DOD contractor.....it don't matter......you'd better have that vest on.  

Also....base commanders have the power to tweak regulations and make their own policy for their base.  Eglin's policies arn't quite what they are at Maxwell.  

I'll try to post Eglin's policies sometime Friday morning so F6RDR is clear what the policies are on Eglin...since that's where he's going.  

[F6RDR]

Thanks RedValk, Wow, I didn't know what I was getting into.

BF. Thanks,  Those rules/regs will help if you can find them, I won't be down there till next Thurs. or Fri. so this Fri. is fine.  I got a vest, have to find some full fingered summer riding gloves, WM used to have unlined shooting gloves but they only have the lined ones up here now.

This may or may not be so much fun I'm only riding 758.3mi from Cascade VA to get there that morning and it may be warm. Can I change cloths at or near the gate, I can always throw my chaps on over my shorts and put on the vest & gloves - only takes a min or 2  and can I take the MSF Corse rite away on base? I always wanted to do that any way but I'm always riding so, no time. I’m a civilian & no military ID, would a pistol permit from NY help?  Or maybe a motel will be easier and cheaper.

Daughter called yesterday and said "you can always come in the car", I told her "It's kind of hard to go on a MS trip and Visit & Ride with Friends, Aunts & Cousins without a Motorcycle, It's summer my car has 2 wheels".

I hope they dont say anything about the darkside tire on the back... 

[BF]

Darkside tire ok.....they won't care about your tires.  

Don't know about a pistol permit, but weapons are NOT permitted.  It's rare, but they do have dogs at the gate from time to time and they are looking for weapons/drugs.  I wouldn't advise trying to bring a weapon on base.  It ain't worth the risk.  They take that kind of thing veeeery seriously.  

There are two different gates that you can approach/enter.  The West Gate is proabably the easiest to find and get to.  It's on the south/west side of the base.  The other gate is the East Gate.  It's on the north/east side of the base.  You can google earth and/or yahoo maps to see/find it.  If you don't already have google earth on your computer, you can download it for free.  You can then zoom down all the way to here and you can zoom onto the Eglin's gates and you can see for yourself what I'm talking about.  

If you have no ID, then the best thing for you to do when you get here is just pull up to the gate and go to the out building to the right of the gate.  You'll see it as you approach the gate....it's on the right.  There's one at both gates.  It's a visitor center for lack of a better term.  You can pull into it just prior to either gate.  Again, they are to the right as you approach the gate.  There, you can tell them who you are, what you're doing there and that you need to have your daughter and/or son inlaw come and get you so that they can sign you on to the base.  They'll be your escort.  They will HAVE to have a military ID to escort you.  Nobody else can....at least not without being on an approved escort list.  Trust me, they'll check.  

At these little visitor centers, since you haven't actually gained access to the base as yet, you can ride up to them dressed in shorts or whatever else you normally wear.  You can change into your approved gear there in the parking lot.  I think they have rest rooms there if needed.  

As a precaution,  they normally have these barricade, pole thingys sticking out of the road bed as you approach the gate.....you have to zig zag as you approach the entrance of the gate where the guards are standing.  Be careful that you don't hit one of those things.  Just go slow and look for the visitor building at the right. 

The MSF course isn't available to you on the base....only to military, civilian government employees and DOD contractors.  There is a course on base (or...there used to be...not totally sure right now), but it's not available to the general public.  

You can however, take it at the local college, but you have to sign up (sometimes months) in advance.  It's 200 bucks.  Here's a link if your interested in taking it while your here.......

http://okaloosaridesafe.com/

However....I really don't think that you, being civilian, have to have the MSF card to gain access.  I do know that it's a requirement if your military, but I'm pretty sure it's not a requirement of the non-military (me).  It is a requirement to have that endorsment on you driver's license if you're a resident of the state.  I've been riding on Eglin for years and they have yet to ask me for an MSF card.  They have, however, checked my D/L and insurance before and had the dog inspect my bike at the gate.  

http://maps.yahoo.com/#mvt=m&lat=30.45031&lon=-86.528961&zoom=13

[BF]

Okay F6RDR........

This is a cut & paste straight from the policy letter in it's entirety.........



DEPARTMENT OF THE AIR FORCE

HEADQUARTERS 96TH AIR BASE WING (AFMC)

EGLIN AIR FORCE BASE, FLORIDA

 

APR 19, 2007

 

MEMORANDUM FOR DISTRIBUTION A, B AND C

 

FROM: 96 ABW/CC

 

SUBJECT: Motorcycle Rider Safety Requirements

 

1. Due to increased concern for the safety of Eglin motorcycle riders, I am directing these rider

visibility and safety requirements. This is an interim measure until the AAC Supplement to AFI

91-207 is revised and published. These requirements are applicable to all operators and

passengers of motorcycles, mopeds and motorized scooters while operating  on the Eglin AFB

Installation and Reservation. The operator will not place the vehicle in motion until the

requirements below have been met.

 

a. Rider visibility and garment requirements:

 

    (1) Long sleeve upper garment:  Front torso and back side of the outer upper garment must

be bright colors. These bright colors must cover a minimum surface area of 144 square inches of

the front and back torso. Acceptable colors are bright orange, red, yellow, lime green and white;

no other colors are allowed. The brightly colored upper, outer garment may be one of these

colors in either a solid pattern or mixed pattern.

 

    (2) During night hours, 30 minutes prior to dusk thru 30 minutes after dawn, twilight

and/or periods of reduced light due to inclement weather (fog, rain, hail or overcast), operators

and passengers must additionally wear reflective or retro-reflective material. This material will

be attached or sewn to the upper, outer garment by horizontal, vertical and/or diagonal stripes of

brightly colored (colors listed above) reflective or retro-reflective material at least I-inch wide.

Regardless of the direction of the stripes, there must be a minimum of 24 linear inches of

reflective or retro-reflective material on front and back (e.g. three 8-inch stripes I-inch wide or

six 4-inch stripes I-inch wide).

 

    (3) If the operator and/or passenger are wearing a backpack, the outer-most back side of the

backpack must meet the above requirements. For example, put a reflective vest that meets the

requirements over the backpack to make the rider visible from front and backside with brightly

colored and reflective or retro-reflective material.

 

    (4) Full-fingered motorcycle gloves or mittens.

 

    (5) Long trousers.

 

    (6) Sturdy footwear will be worn. The minimum standard for Eglin AFB is leather tennis

shoes. They must be snugly secure and completely cover the feet. No sandals of any sort that

exposes the feet or toes are allowed (The Motorcycle Safety Foundation recommends Leather boots

or over-the-ankle shoes to protect against a variety of riding hazards with rubber soles to grip the pavement).    

 

b. Riders must still comply with all other current motorcycle training and personal protective

equipment ( PPE) requirements of DODI 6055.4 and API 91-207. Here are the following PPE requirements:

 

    (1) Helmet: A properly fastened (under the chin) protective helmet. As a minimum,

helmets must meet Department of Transportation standards.

 

    (2) Eye protection: to protect eyes against dust, debris and insects, operators and

Passengers will wear a face shield or impact resistant goggles/glasses.  Windshields do not meet

the standard required for eye protection and will not supplement a face shield or impact resistant

goggles/glasses.  Operators will not wear tinted face shields, goggles/glasses during hours of

darkness.

 

    (3) Lights: motorcycles, mopeds and three or four wheeled ATVs will be operated with the

headlight on at all times.

 

2.  Questions regarding this policy may be directed to AAC/SEG, MSgt Sandy Rief, at 882-7356.

 

 

DEAN R. CLEMONS, Co!, USAF

Commander




Okay........from my experiences, even if you have on a long sleave and one of the approved colored shirts making you legal during day-light hours, they'll still take a looooong hard look at you....twice.  I've even had one guard tell me that I had to put my vest on even though I had a long sleave all white shirt on anyway.  Short version.....where the vest...the guards expect it.  

I use the one that they sell on the MSF web site.  I think it's about 19 bucks or so.....very bright, very visible and light weight breathable mesh.  

MSF card.......I couldn't find anything directing the use or non-use of the card.  However, I'm still pretty sure that you won't need one...being civilian.  There was an incident recently where a bunch of young & stupid airman where heading west on Interstate 10 going to a bike rally that got caught doing 140 sustained on sport bikes....and had been doing at least that for a while.  After that, there was an email, or letter (don't remember which) that re-stated policy regarding rider training and certification for airman.  In that letter, I'm pretty sure that it said that civilian and contractors are not required to carry an MSF certification card....and that the gate guards would be spot checking the airman.  

I wouldn't worry about it.  You'll get on just fine with out it.  

Good luck.  

 

[Chrisj CMA]

Nice ridin with ya F6RDR........QD and I met F6RDR on Eglin and dragged him up to our little bike nite in Crestview.  Thats about as exciting as it gets for a Monday night round these parts.......