WOW!!
Your reply is lucid, thought out and you almost didn't call anyone names.
And some of your oppinion on this matter makes sense.
Ya know, it's guys like ricoman, of "rubber ducky" creativity, that permit me to charge the large day rates that I do. You see, guys like ricoman base their views, policies, and decisions, on how they would like reality to be, not how it actually is. Then, when their business project gets completely f*cked up, they hire me, a person who does have a clear vision of reality, to clean up the mess they left by trying to implement something in a pretend reality.
The problem here is that you denigrate others in an attempt to make your point.
You point out your superiority (in your mind) and blatantly state that only you understand what reality is.
This is not the way to get others to listen to what you have to say.
This is about economics. Americans want cheap labor. Mexicans want to feed their families. When your chicken McSandwich hits 6 bux because Americans are killing the chickens, no more sandwiches sold and no more Americans employed. So, the Mexicans fill a major economic need... cheap labor that Americans won't do... same stuff here is Singapore... the Chinese hire Tamil Indians for the sh*t work.
Yes it is about economics.
But, those who paint a picture that would lead all to believe that our economy would collapse without the labor of illegal immigrants are wrong.
I suggest that it is the companies who employ cheap, illegal labor who benefit the most from this line of thinking.
And have the most to gain from seeing that it is promoted as the only solution.
This is also about another reality. The other reality is that no matter how hard you try you cannot remove the illegal aliens from this country. You could turn this place into a virtual police state, with traffic and highway stops, and unannounced knocks on the door at midnight and still not empty this country of illegal aliens.
I completely disagree with this point.
Using this same logic you could say:
We can't stop everyone from speeding so we shouldn't have speed limits (anywhere).
or
People will always commit murders so murder shouldn't be against the law.
We can and should find, capture, prosecute and deport those who are in our country illegally.
So, there are two facts:
a) Illegals are fulfilling a low cost service in the economy which Americans clearly won't fill or the employers would be hiring Americans, not illegals.
b) You cannot remove all the illegals from this country.
It's not that Americans won't do the work.
Americans won't do the work for less than minimum wage, illegals will.
And once again you assert that it is impossible to remove all the illegals, so we shouldn't try.
I say that this line of thinking is flawed.
But the fact is, an amnesty piece is an essential part of immigration reform. We have to do something about the illegal immigrant population to integrate them because we cannot ship them out... logistically and budget wise impossible. A qualified path to citizenship is a must.
Again, the premise is that since we can't eliminate illegals we should just embrace them.
And once again, I say that this line of thinking is flawed.
There are ways to make it easy for someone that has proven themselves to be a good steward to present themselves for consideration for a work visa.
This can be accomplished without a "blanket" amnesty.
Flip side: The pro immigration die hards that insist there can be no 'second class' people in the US. Another distorted view of reality. Fact: If we are going to solve the problem, then we need foreign work permits. Doesn't give you the right to permanently live in the US. Doesn't give you the right to have US branded children. Does give you the right to work for a specific employer. Does give you the right to have a drivers license and buy insurance. Does give the government the right to expel you if you lose your job and jail you if you refuse to go.
This is the closest to agreeing on something that you and I will probably ever get.
I've been saying for years that part of the solution is to have a policy that liberally allows the issuance of work visas.
Of course the person would still have to qualify, I.E. proof of employment and not have a criminal record.
Logic says that if it were easy to come here to work legally then most people would choose that route.
This also provides documentation of who is here and gives us a means to expell those who break our laws once they are here.
Point three: If we have foreign work permits, employers have got to pay the price if they hire workers without permits. Key to controlling illegal immigration is getting a legal flow. And stopping the illegal flow means coming down on the people who employ them. In Singapore, you get a $50,000 fine and years in jail if you are caught with an illegal employee.
Another point that makes sense and on which we can agree.
Point four: Physical border protection is a joke. It doesn't work, we can't afford it. What's the point if the cure costs more than the disease, and fer sure, trying to create a watertight wall between the US and Mexico would cost far more than it saved us.
Maybe a physical "wall" isn't the answer.
But, we have to do something about our borders.
Hundreds of thousands of people are spilling over our southern borders monthly.
These people are undocumented and from all walks of life.
Some are just looking for work and a piece of the "pie".
Others are criminals looking to apply their trade here.
And an even worse potential:
Have you ever noticed how much people from mexico, central and south america look like people from the middle east?
How many terrorist are using the southern borders to sneak into our country?
The answer is, we don't know.
Illegal immigration stops when several things happen.
a) There is a legal path.
b) Employers get whacked for illegals
c) Incentives are provided to keep people in Mexico. The US government would be far better off creating jobs in Mexico instead of building a wall if you want the government to spend money on this.
Agree with all except point C.
This is what NAFTA was susposed to do.
It is time for our political leaders to admit that NAFTA is a failure.
Once again logic comes in to play here,
If NAFTA was working then why are more people than ever comming here illegally to work?
