Carb Clean/Hydrolock Questions

[rugguy]

2000 I/S
22k

Took it to Colorado and it sat in a cold garage for 6 weeks without riding (I know, I know...but I had no choice). Bike would start but fuel leaked from a couple of carb overflows. Trailered the bike back to Atlanta and now it won't start at all.

I have read the threads and watched D-Ray's videos on cleaning the carbs. I plan to tear them down this weekend. But I have seen multiple horror stories about hydrolock and have a couple of questions. 1) If the floats stuck open in any of the carbs and I tried to start the bike would that necessarily damage the engine? 2) How can you tell if you have hydrolocked cylinders? I have read about broken "this" and stripped out "that". What's done is done, but how do you know?

The bike will turn over but will not start. And I hear the faint sound of, what I can only describe as a dead cylinder and a strong smell of fuel. BTW... I have never heard the dreaded "clank" that others describe when hydrolocked.

Open for suggestions and comments from anyone who has experienced this problem. Thanks.

[Wewaman]

I would pull the spark plugs and tap the starter button and see if any gas flys out of any spark plug holes

[IamGCW]

Tap starter with plugs out and holes covered, expect gas but don't be surprised if there is none. 

Replace the plugs.

The overflow was likely from the floats sticking open.  Tapping the carbs with a plastic hammer or screwdriver handle may release them.

Charge the battery.  A low battery can make it hard to start.  Enricher on full.  Try to start it.

[salty1]

Kill button? Did you foul your plugs? Check for spark?

[R J]

It is too late now, but if you ever have to trailer the bike, TURN OFF THE GAS.

Those floats bouncing up and down will let gas leak into the carbs and then they can and will overflow into the cylinder.

Follow the advice above.

Pull plugs and turn her over, keep your eyes back away from the plug holes.   It can and will shoot gas as high as your ceiling.

Take battery and charge it to it's fullest.    Put the plugs back in and FULL choke, hit the starter, HANDS off the firkin throttle, OK?

Or, you could just roll your vehicle up to the bike, turn the vehicle engine off and get it a whirl.   If it starts the battery is weak.

I'd pull the battery and take it to a parts store for a load test.    Most stores will do this for free.

[gordonv]

The bike will turn over but will not start. And I hear the faint sound of, what I can only describe as a dead cylinder and a strong smell of fuel. BTW... I have never heard the dreaded "clank" that others describe when hydrolocked.

You say it turns, but won't start. Smell of fuel. Sounds like all is well, but you need more power to turn the starter AND energize the coils, so the spark plugs get a spark, and the bike fire up.

Like all have mentioned already, charge or jump from a know working vehicle (none running), you battery. Press the start button. If/when you smell fuel again, turn chock off and after turning the engine over a while and it doesn't start, try the throttle a little. I used to have to do this with my 99' IS.

You do know how far you need to press the chock (enricher) before you are actually fully engage it?

[rugguy]

Thanks to all who replied. Here are my responses to your suggestions:

Kill switch ON (or bike wouldn't turn over)
Fuel valve off when trailered
Battery full charge and only one year old. I will try to jump from my truck though.
I will pull plugs and "tap" carbs to see if I can loosen floats. Always ran Techron so I hope that helped.
If not, I am pulling carb bank Saturday and cleaning the whole thing. If carb cleaning and new plugs don't work I will do what Io always do.....whine about carbureted engines.

Seems like I am always either riding my bike or trying to fix it......

Thanks again for the help. I will post back the results.

[Patrick]

I would be surprised if the carburetors really need to be removed.  I agree with what the fellas say. Clear the cylinders, start it with a good battery.

[R J]

If it would make you feel any better, tap each carb bowl with the handle of a screwdriver.     If there happens to be a speck of dirt in one of the carbs, 99% of the time that will knock it loose.

Clear the cylinders and start it off of a truck/car (NOT RUNNING) battery.

Ya should be good to go.

[rugguy]

Thanks for the suggestions. Here is what I did and still won't start:

First steps to clear carbs of any excess fuel:
removed spark plugs
tapped all carb bowls with handle-end of screwdriver to try and dislodge any stuck floats
covered spark plug openings
connected jumper cables to truck(not started) and fully-charged bike battery
fuel off
fire extinguisher at the ready
used starter to turn motor over

Results:
bike will turn over fine with no grinding or clanking
no fuel ejected from cylinders

Second Steps:
replaced spark plugs
removed one at a time and checked for good spark at the plugs
secured all plugs in motor
turned fuel on
still connected to jumpers
applied choke (embarrassed to say that I thought  choke lever went up....now realize it goes down)
used starter to turn motor over

Results:
will turn over but not fire
makes very minor thumping sound from left exhaust like there is one dead cylinder...but it should still fire
pulled a plug...smelled of gas but was not wet

Thirds Steps:
Post whinny, "my-bike-won't-start" post on this message board
Pray for magic bullet that will provide miraculous repair
Make alternate plans to take up fly fishing
I'd push it off a cliff but I can't get it to one...

Thanks for any experienced suggestions....

[Patrick]

When you mentioned you thought the choke went up, not down. And now you pushed the choke lever down, I have a feeling you didn't push it down far enough. Push down until you feel resistance, then push about 1/2 inch more, then the choke is actually engaged.

[Oldfishguy]

Yup, push that choke lever ALL the way down.  You will find resistance about half way down, continue to push it and that is the portion of the choke that actually is engaging. It took me a bit to actually realize this myself.

Good Luck

David

[rugguy]

Thanks guys, I made sure to push that sucker all the way down. Concerned about standing on the starter too much and burning it out. Guess I'll have to tear down the Beast....what a drag.

[R J]

How old is the gas in the tank?

[rugguy]

RJ....half tank is from October...half is from December. Added Stabil after top off.

[whitestroke]

Definitely try fresh gas before taking anything apart.
Put a vacuum on petcock and open bowl drains to circulate fresh gas.

[R J]

I'm wondering if stail fuel might not be your problem.

Do you know how to drain the carb bowls?

Get astraddle of the bike, both feet planted on the floor and shake the old girl from side to side.

Drain the carbs.

Whoops, got ahead of myself.

Have you pulled a plug to see if it is wet after your cranking attemps?

If wet, keep going, if not wet, find out why.    Keep pulling plugs till ya find a wet one.   Now we know one cylinder at least is getting fuel.

You said you used Stabil.   In my opinion that is the poorest excuse for stabilizing the gas.   Use SeaFoam, I just hit a brain fart, can't remember the other tools we use at the shop.   I won't be going to the shop today, due to the cold weather.   My lungs won't take cold air anymore.

I think one of the good ones is Textron.

Hopefully some one will step up to the podium and help me out here

As a last resort, drain out the old gas and put in some fresh gas.    Once ya get it to running you can add some of the drained out stuff or put it in your lawn mower.    I DID NOT SAY all of it at once,  add some and go fill it up, till ya get it all used up.

Gasoline today is not really worth a sheet.  

Good Luck.

[rugguy]

If it gets above freezing tomorrow I will....
drain the tank and add fresh fuel
drain the carbs until fresh fuel flows
replace the plugs
attempt to restart

Here's hoping it's a stale fuel problem...wouldn't that be sweet?

[longrider]

good advice above,  here is where I would start.  drain each carb separately into a clear bottle noting how much sediment if any is in there and the amount in the container.  remove the vac line off #6 and apply vacuum for a minute or two.  drain again.  apply vac and fill them up.  if the battery is good give it full choke and turn it over.

warren

[John Schmidt]

Use a Mity Vac for this procedure, I've done this to disturb and remove debris from the bowls. Attach the Mity Vac to the end of the drain hose where it exits under the bike. Pump up a fair amount of vacuum, then open one carb drain. The vacuum created causes the fuel in the bowl to stir up existing loose debris and sucks it out. Close that drain and move to the next carb. Do one at a time but don't forget to close the drain each time. You'll be surprised at the junk it will collect, more than just letting gravity drain the bowl....assuming there's anything in there. Good luck.  

[rugguy]

Today's efforts:

Pulled the tank and drained it completely.
Drained all the carbs and everything looked clear.
New spark plugs installed
Reinstalled tank, two gallons fresh fuel with Seafoam

Results:
Bike will start but only right side firing.
Exhaust cold as ice on left side.
Fuel flowing a fair amount from overflow under engine when running.

Checked for spark and getting spark on both sides of engine
Open carb drains on right (running) side and get fuel dripping
Open carb drains on left (non-running) side and almost no fuel comes out

At least it will fire up now.

Why would fuel be coming from overflow?
Any ideas as to why I am not getting fuel on left side?
Bike torn down and too stubborn to quit...or take it to dealership.
Or any other ideas to get me running would be greatly appreciated.

[R J]

Tap all of the carbs fairly hard with a screwdriver (handle) and try it again.

Kind of sounds like a float is stuck.

[rugguy]

RJ....I will tap the carbs again, but would the entire left bank of cylinders(1,3,&5) not fire because of that? Wouldn't all of the floats on the left side have to be stuck to get three cold exhausts?  Would that cause the fuel to come out of the overflow below the frame? And not wanting to sound like an idiot, but where exactly would I do this tapping? On the bowl itself?

[R J]

On the bowl itself.

[rugguy]

In the time it took me to write the last message, I went out and it fired up on both sides. Both sides smoked but it ran and revved up to 4k nice and smooth. Then it died and won't fire again. Maybe the Seafoam just needs to work on whatever is stuck...yeah and maybe Santa will bring me a new F6 for Valentines Day.....riiiiggghhhttt!

Sounds like a full carb "clean down" is in my future. I wonder if it has anything to do with the non-firing side being on the kickstand side? Who knows. But next weekend barring a miracle the carbs are coming off.

[R J]

Give the Seafoam a chance to do some work.

Try firing it up again after 5:00 PM CST.

You'd be surprised what that stuff will do to scum in the carbs and tank.

Sons Texas Chopper, we run a can through it every 3 fill up.

MGM only gets it in the fall when we put him away.

Pour in the can of Seafoam, fill it up, shake it side to side, fire it up and take a 5 mile ride home.    Park him in his corner and cover him with an old sheet.

Next spring he wants to stumble and fart for about 2 or 3 minutes and then he is as smooth as glass.

Burn out that tank, fill it up and burn that one out, refill and add a can of Seafoam.    Every 4th tank I put another can of Seafoam in.    FULL can that is.

[rugguy]

Roger that...thanks RJ

[rugguy]

Sat overnight and still won't start. For the life of me I can't figure out what I was able to start it yesterday and it actually ran and revved smooth for a couple of minutes. I did notice that when it ran the the choke was on full and the fuel was off......based on that I think that maybe I have stuck floats that are flooding the cylinders. So,no way around it, I have to pull the carbs and clean them out. I have done full engine swaps so it can't be harder than that.

I will post photos of what I find. But I learned what I already knew.....don't let these beasts sit.

[uturn]

in my carb experience wich includes several boats and bikes, seafoam is great at keeping thigs clean but wont to much to actually remove debris. theres some awesome video on youtube about the teardown and rebuild of the valk carb bank. it looks to me like you are exactly on the right track with a total cleaning. 

but i totally feel your pain...i hate it when a piece of machinery that i own wont run...

[Ken Tarver]

slow jets stopped up

[Bighead]

Sat overnight and still won't start. For the life of me I can't figure out what I was able to start it yesterday and it actually ran and revved smooth for a couple of minutes. I did notice that when it ran the the choke was on full and the fuel was off......based on that I think that maybe I have stuck floats that are flooding the cylinders. So,no way around it, I have to pull the carbs and clean them out. I have done full engine swaps so it can't be harder than that.

I will post photos of what I find. But I learned what I already knew.....don't let these beasts sit.

Choke was on but fuel was off?when it was running then it died? Did you turn the fuel back on?

[Patrick]

Sat overnight and still won't start. For the life of me I can't figure out what I was able to start it yesterday and it actually ran and revved smooth for a couple of minutes. I did notice that when it ran the the choke was on full and the fuel was off......based on that I think that maybe I have stuck floats that are flooding the cylinders. So,no way around it, I have to pull the carbs and clean them out. I have done full engine swaps so it can't be harder than that.

I will post photos of what I find. But I learned what I already knew.....don't let these beasts sit.

So it has just been run twice and ran good both times ?  I still doubt you need to take off the carburetors just yet. It now sounds like you have a fuel delivery problem and probably should check the petcock.
I think if you had turned on the petcock this last time it just may have stayed running. But, there is only one way to find out, try to run it again with the petcock on. But, now you'll have to fill the carburetors first or crank the hell out of it.

[pouch]

if it didn't tear the gears up get a dan mark elect fuel shut off. pull the plugs and turn it over if its filling up the carbs and the cylinder it will shoot a massive amt of fuel out. yours carbs may look clean that's deceiving but hydro lock is a night mare belive that. I tore my gears in back housing up and the rear housing it self . hope you have better luck pouch

[custom1]

rugguy, These  guys are right. You just ran it out if gas with the petcock off. They will run for a while like that with just the gas that is in the bowls. You will now have the put a vacuum on the line to the petcock for a minute or two to get the carb bowls full again. Just be careful like pouch said and make sure one of the floats is not stuck and filling a cylinder before you crank it again.