Bike won't idle

[Wewaman]

It's me again 
Cranked Valk today and took her for about a mile ride , first ride in a year and I had to keep the choke on to keep her running.    I  could use a LITTLE choke and she would idle at about 900 but as soon as I turned the choke off it died.

I have adjusted the throttle 1/4 " free play , but feels  like I might need to tighten it up so that there is tension on the pull cable.   There is no tension until the play is gone, about 1/4" twist of the throttle.   
 
Help me please.

Thanks,
Tony

[sandy]

Put in a can of Seafoam or Techron or Berryman's B12. (in a full tank) Take a slow ride keeping the RPMs on the low side to work the slow speed jets. Removing cable freeplay is easy. 10mm open end wrench to loosen the lock nut on the cable adjuster. Back out the barrel bolt till you have a small amount of play. Tighten lock nut.

[Thunderbolt]

Sounds like you have a vacuum leak.  Tighten all the band clamps on your intakes.  Check all your vacuum lines for cracks.   If you had to add fuel to richen the mixture it is probably being leaned out by air being sucked into the mix.  Could also be that some of your slow jets are plugged.  Try Seafoam or Techron in the gas, let it sit overnight after running the engine.  Drain each bowl via the drain screw and take a look at what comes out and make sure all of them have about the same amount of fuel.  Just some things to try.  If there are no intake leaks you might just pull the carbs and check the slow jets if the Seafoam doesn't help.  Good Luck.

[Wewaman]

Just reinstalled the carbs.  So everything is clean inside..  I also did a desmog so all vac hoses are gone except for the ones going to the air vent rails. 
I did have to disconnect the throttle cables as well as the choke cable,  and I tried to put them back as directed in the Clymer manual.   The thing is after I start her I can ease off on the choke and she idles fine as long as the choke is part way on.   So I'm just thinking that I might have to adjust my throttle some more,  but not sure.

Thanks,
Wewa

[Pappy!]

The fact that you have to use your choke (fuel enrichment circuit) is an indication that the carbs are still not clean. If it ran when you put it up for the season and it was not in need of a throttle cable adjustment then it would not need one now. Only thing that has changed is the fuel quality over time and you apparently still have one or more plugged circuits as a result of bad fuel.

[Rio Wil]

Idle speed is not adjusted with the throttle cable adjustment.  There is a idle speed adjustment knob between cylinder 1 and 3 intake runner. Did you have these carbs apart for cleaning and did they sit for a year with fuel in them? Does the bike run perfectly once off idle 3000-6000 rpm?

[Rio Wil]

What are you using for a fuel petcock.....and is it vac operated?

[pancho]

I go along with pouring a can of Berrymans B12 in a full tank of gas and giving that a try,,,, it really can do wonders for the symptoms you are describing.

[Wewaman]

I took the carbs apart and cleaned them following D-Rays video on Youtube.  There was no fuel in the carbs when I took them apart.  After I put them back together and re-installed them I put 5 Gallons of Non Ethanol gas in and tried to start her but Nothing.  After posting questions on here I was told to check my OEM petcock and I found it to be defective.  I think that was my problem all along.
I ordered a rebuild kit and filter from Partzilla and put it all back together yesterday and put it on Full choke and it started and she ran for about 30 seconds and died, there was gas POURING  out of the fuel rails.
I posted a question about Carb separation and Salty1 suggested that the O'rings may have shrunk from sitting and after the gas bath that it got, they may swell up after a day.  Well Thanks again Salty1 you were right, Started her up today and NO leaks.
Rio, I only went around the block at about 45mph so don't know because I had the choke on full or it woukd die if I let off the throttle. 

This is my first time doing anything Carbeurator so I was just happy she started. 

I have not touched the Idle knob yet because she ran great till she wouldn't start, and thats all I want is for her to run great again.

Thanks for your replys

Tony

[Bighead]

Idle speed is not adjusted with the throttle cable adjustment.  There is a idle speed adjustment knob between cylinder 1 and 3 intake runner. Did you have these carbs apart for cleaning and did they sit for a year with fuel in them? Does the bike run perfectly once off idle 3000-6000 rpm?

I would try this adjustment first if it were me.

[Wewaman]

 Just some more info , I did take all the pilot screws out and installed them back with the same number of rounds that I removed them with but they were not all the same some 1 3/4 some 2 some 2 1/4 some 2 1/2
But I will try adjusting the Idle tomorrow thanks,


Tony

[Thunderbolt]

If everything is still stock, adjust the pilots all to 2 1/4 turns out.  You can adjust your idle as suggested with the knob between 1 and 3.  Turning it in will raise the idle, it is easier to turn if you open the throttle with one hand while turning the knob.  Have you synced the carbs or did you make any adjustments on the sync screws?  If not that makes a lot of difference on your idle. 

[Patrick]

Why do you think its quitting ? Because of low idle speed or mixture ?
Like said, Set the pilots at 2.25 turns out, adjust the idle speed with the knob, perform a sync [ if you have to turn an adjust much at all, something is wrong]. Also make sure the tank vent line is not kinked which will save some aggravation once its idling correctly.
Keep us informed

[Wewaman]

   Great news at least for ME.
 After all the knowledge from ALL of you here , my Valkyrie is running , no wait PURRING like she should I think,  because it is raining so hard and it is really hard to hear with the rain pounding the metal roof.

First I removed each intake runner and re-adjusted the pilot screws as instructed , then double checked each clamp and tightened. 
Then I adjusted the idle ,  Quite a lot actually.   But now she will start without the choke when warm and idle around 900 rpms. 

Now I have to remove the front wheel and replace the valve stem with a 90°  so that I can add air or check tire pressure.  Yesterday when I rode it around the block it was very sluggish,  first time riding with a car tire but I'm pretty sure from the way she handled it was the front.   So if you have any tips for the front tire please fire away. 

Thanks again everyone your input was extremely valuable to me.

Getting oh so much closer,
Wewa

[Thunderbolt]

Good news that it runs smoothly.   But wait on taking off the front wheel !!!  you can change the stem in about 15 minutes with a large C clamp and a couple of pieces of wood.  Put the back side of the C clamp on the block of wood placed on the rim.  Put the front side that you crank on to tighten the clamp on a piece of wood that is placed just on the tire.  This will break one side of the tire loose and let you get to the stem.  Of course you will be doing this next to the stem, but leaving room between the wood to get to the stem from the inside.  Takes a BIG C clamp.

[Wewaman]

Roger that Thunderbolt 
Big C clamp it will be ,  also there were a couple of band clamps that needed tightening thanks for that tid bit of info also. 
I'm getting excited now that things are starting to come together,  almost ready to ride 
It was quite an adventure but I am getting better at understanding my machine and that is  EXTREMELY rewarding 
Also did the rear end service by Chris in shoptalk.

Things are definitely looking up.

Thank you once again,
 Tony

[HayHauler]

Do you think the "sluggish" handling was the front tire being low on pressure, or maybe the first impression of the CT on the rear?  Just curious, because my first CT was a GY Triple Tread and it was pretty flat and handled more like a snowmobile than a motorcycle.  Just my first impression of THAT CT.

Hay 
Jimmyt

[Wewaman]

Well I had to bend my tire gauge to be able to get a reading and only had 15 psi so I'm thinking that was the culprit , but not sure how accurate that is with a bent gauge.  I bent an old cheapo  that I had.   I had the Honda shop put a new metal valve stem on it and they put a straight one on.  Absolutely no way for me to check pressure or add air.  
And just to be fair I want to make certain the front has the correct tire pressure.

[Wewaman]

I told my son about getting the bike running yesterday while it was raining.  He called me and said he went by and put bike on full choke and started her up and that it had smoke coming out of both tail pipes,  said when he took some of the choke off it stopped on the right but the left was still pouring smoke (his words)
And it had a misfire sound

Also to answer the question,  No I have not sync'd the carbs and I have not touched any of the sync screws..  According to D-Rays video I just looked at each butterfly and they all looked like the base carb butterfly. 

So I guess I will see when I get home this evening,  like I said,  it was down pouring not raining yesterday so couldn't really hear how she was running.  Just felt like she was Purring.

Oh well such is life,
Wewa

[Wewaman]

Got home and cranked her up on full choke and she started right up and ran at about 3000 rpm's then slowed down to 2500 but she is definitely smoking out both sides.   After she warmed up I took the choke off and she sputtered and died ,  I increased the idle to about 1000 rpms and she ran. But smoked out the left side and finally quit smoking , couple of minutes after idling.   

There is a lot more pressure coming out of the left tail pipe , it is also much louder than the right tail pipe. 
So not as close to done as I thought..

Still seeking answers,
 Wewa

[Patrick]

Still looking for answers ? Hmm. Its hard to give you more answers here until everything is done. Set it up straighter [ stick a 2X4 under the side stand] and don't leave the choke on too long. Some smoking is normal. Adjust the carburetors.

[Wewaman]

Adjust  what ? pilot screws?  How ?
Do I adjust them all or just one at a time ?  1/4 turn on each ? In or out ?  Only on left side ?  

Gonna get a BIG C clamp tomorrow so I can change the valve stem ,  and maybe the rain will be gone and I can ride her and see how she runs.

Patrick , by everything done ,does that mean sync'ing because I don't know how to do that.  
I already feel like I'm in over my abilities.  

Sorry about all the questions.   Its just my first time attempting these things and I'm just going one step forward and seems like getting pushed back two steps ( Not by anyone here) .  Its just always something else.  
I do see my progress its just I thought it would all run perfect when I put it all back together.  And I know eventually she will but I may need to take it to someone who has more knowledge about such things and can fine tune what I already did.

 OK  I just went out (still raining). Put motorcycle jack under so its level.  Added seafoam Cranked on full choke 3500 rpm eased off choke  2500 rpm  eased off 1500 rpm still smoking bad  both sides left still worse eased off 1000 rpm right side quit smoking turned choke off it stuttered and died cranked and adjusted idle back up to 950 it stopped smoking.

The exhaust on the right side is less pressure and cooler and quieter than the left side.

So tomorrow I will drain the bowls and check each to see what's coming out.

Tony

[pancho]

An eight inch C clamp will do the trick according to HubcapSC (he carries on in the bags), and I still think you need to pour a bottle of Berrymans B12 into the tank and clean the slow jets a bit twisting on any more adjustments.

[Wewaman]

10-4  Pancho 
I guess we will see what tomorrow brings  after I drain the bowls.

Thanks,

Wewa

[Patrick]

Seems like I remember you said the pilots are set to 2.25 turns which is correct if you have 35 low jets. When I mentioned adjusting the carburetors I meant sync. Apparently something is still wrong, but, before I'd recommend removing the carburetors I'd recommend the sync. The sync is easy and fast [ again, I use a single gauge].
If someone suggested checking the fuel supply to each carburetor, thats good. Keep the bike level and remove the drain lines then open one drain at a time and see what happens.[A rag in the valley will soak up the fuel].

[salty1]

Your making progress Wewaman!    If you can remove the carb bank you can synch your carbs. The smoking is nothing to be concerned about right now. You might want to check your plugs, you may have fouled one running at full choke.

[Wewaman]

Update ,
First  I drained each bowl,  all had about same amount of gas and all was clean.
then I put a piece of clear tubing on each drain port and with bike warm and idling I opened the drain screw ( 1 at a time) and watched how high the gas would fill the tube,  they all filled the hose  to the same level about the top of the bowl.

Next , still idling I pulled each plug wire to see if there was any change.  It ran until I pulled # 4  it died immediately, I reinstalled #4 and started her back up .  Pulled #6 and it died immediately.   Then I got and old plug and tried each plug wire 1 @ a time and they all had spark.  

Borrowed a digital laser temp gauge = results=
#1 intake runner 129 degrees
#1 exhaust 127 deg
#3 int runner 130 deg
#3 exhaust 110 deg
#5 int  runner  105 deg
#5 exhaust 130 deg
Right - inside tail pipe between 3 holes 90 deg

#2 int runner 127 deg
#2 exhaust. 123 deg
#4  int runner 160 deg
#4 exhaust. 160 deg
#6 int runner 160 deg
#6 exhaust.  166 deg
Left - inside tail pipe between 3 holes. 185 deg

Pulled all the plugs and only #4,6 were good all the rest were fouled  - black.  Cleaned them up and most of the smoking went away.  
So it was running on only 2 cylinders wow,  good call again Salty1

On a side note C clamp worked like a charm , I pulled the old valve stem and discovered that the replacement I bought was not the right size, so will have to try and find the right one tomorrow.  
Thanks,
Wewa

[Patrick]

I doubt it was running on just 2 cylinders. SYNC THE CARBURETORS !

[Wewaman]

might be condensation but it smelled STRONGLY of gas.

[salty1]

I doubt it was running on just 2 cylinders. SYNC THE CARBURETORS !

  Patrick is right on, the next thing you need to do is sychronize your carbs.

[Wewaman]

OK I WILL SNYC THE CARBS  

I did a search and everyone says how they built them with stuff they had laying around or bought a set of 6 or a set of 4 or only uses a single guage, Well thats great.

But how do you ACTUALLY do it?????????  

Im still just trying and learning  
Instructions will help and pictures would be better..

Does it matter if you use a liquid filled guage or not?  is one better than another?

Patrick,  I would like to use only 1 guage like YOU what kind of fittings do I need to go with the guage ? And where do you hook them up to the Carbs?

Just call me SLOW or STUPID or IDIOT- it'll be all right.  

 

[Patrick]

Get a good vacuum gauge. A good gauge has a damper, but, most today won't. Also get a plastic ' T ' and about 10' of vacuum line [ 5/32"] and then a couple small forceps.

Straight bike upright  and warm it up a bit.
Remove intake runner caps and install enough vacuum line to run them to rear of engine[ mark them as to cylinder number]. Plug the ends with something so they can't draw [ golf Tee's]
Remove chrome carburetor covers to reveal the blue philips head screws
Attach vacuum gauge to the ' T ' and to #3 cylinder line and also to #1 line.
Start engine and read vacuum gauge. Hard isn't it ? Turn the damper screw on the gauge until the needle reads almost steady, you want to needle to move around slightly. Oh, you don't have a damper screw ? OK, then, use a pair of forceps on the gauge vacuum line [ between gauge and ' T ']
Now pinch off [ second set of forceps] the #1 line. Take the reading. All cylinders are to be adjusted to #3. Idle speed should about 1000 rpms.
Move forceps from #1 TO #3. Take a reading on #1. It should be a same as #3. Its not ? Adjust the little blue screw on #1 until it matches that of #3.
Oops. The cylinders are as follows. From front to back, brake pedal side , 1,3,5. Shift lever side, 2,4,6.  You'll notice there is no adjustment screw for #3.
Thats all there is to it. Just do the same for all cylinders. Take a reading from #3 and make the cylinder you want to adjust match it. Just make sure only one cylinder at a time is pulling on the vacuum gauge. Its easy to screw up and pull on wrong cylinder or both cylinders, but, no big deal if you do, just check it and re-do it correctly.
You may need to go around each carb a couple times because they were apart. In the end all cylinders should read within a needles width of each other. Thats about .5 in/hg. Honda's spec is 1.6 in/hg. The idle speed will change as you do this [ probably increase] so just keep adjusting it back to 1000 rpm's. If the cooling fan comes on, stop and wait for it to shut off. A fan set in front of the radiator is a big help.
Phew, it actually takes longer to type this out than it does to perform this little task. If you're not taking a reading on a cylinder just remember it needs to be plugged or pinched off. Take a reading only on one cylinder at a time, match it to #3. When all are the same, recap the intake runners install the covers and go for a ride.

[salty1]

Patrick has done a great job describing the task of carburetor synchronization!    Oreillys' has a vacuum gauge for about $25 that I use, but needs a dampner in the tubing before your T to minimize wild needle fluctuations. An airflow regulator (thumb valve) for an aquarium will work just fine.

[Wewaman]

Thanks for the GREAT detailed instructions Patrick  
Went to Advance and bought a sunpro vac gauge, hose and T  $40.00.  Then went to Ace and bought a brass ball valve $25.00  
Wish I would  have seen your post Salty1 probably would have been cheaper.

What about the petcock hose going to #6 intake do I just leave that one attached until I get to #6 then disconnect and add other hose?  Will it run long enough?

The reason I said it was only running on 2 cylinders is because when I pulled the plug wires off of # 1, 2, 3,and 5 nothing changed but as soon as I pulled #4 it died same thing with #6

[salty1]

Wewaman leave #6 until last. That vacuum line is needed for your petcock to open properly if you still have an OEM one. With the bike running use your forceps to pinch #6 vacuum line and turn the bike off. Then hook up your sync line, start the bike and go to work. Like Patrick said go through each cylinder at least twice, more if need be. All readings need to as close to #3 as possible. You thought it "purrrrred" before, your in for a treat. 

[Wewaman]

I can't wait to hear her purr.  I Am off tomorrow so I get to spend some quality time with my mistress and my 9 year old daughter Magnolia  she wants to be the first one to ride when it's fixed.    So do you think I should buy new plugs, the ones in there were brand new and have only been run since i got her running,  but I have had plugs before that when they flooded they were shot .  I cleaned them up and shined them up with an Emory board but the porcelain is still black, or I could put the old plugs back in they still look good.   

So i should check #3 first then check and  adjust #1 then check #3 again then #1 again . Then the same procedure for each carb ,  or do them all 1 time then start over with #1 again?
 
And I couldn't find forceps at the pharmacy or auto store so I am going to cut a short piece of hose and put a golf tee in it and attach to the T and remove #3 hose and put a golf tee in it. 

Getting excited for the morning to get here.      Woooooo Hooooooo

Wewa

[Patrick]

Regarding #6, as said you can leave it hooked up until the end and do it last. Hehehhe, I guess thats why they numbered them that way heh.
Go around and adjust them all once, then go around a second time to recheck and maybe readjust. They will change as you progress thru them. Might as well spend a little extra time to make sure they're right, still doesn't take long. You'll probably never have to do it again.
Can't find forceps ? Hmmm, I would have thought most any place would have them including flea markets. If Sears or any tool store doesn't have them then I would think a medical supply store would. Even a small pair of vise grips or any other similar tool will work, anything that can easily and quickly clamp off the lines.
An aquarium valve will work fine for the gauge dampening and will be more permanent and professional than the forceps. I just thought it would have been easier to find the forceps.

Now, if this doesn't fix the bike, let us know [ I'm sure you would have anyway] and we'll start again at trying to figure this out.

[salty1]

Buy new plugs and use NGKs. If you have a Harbor Freight handy they have forceps. You don't check #3 because there is nothing to adjust, it's the master (reference) carb. All adjustments are made to match #3 which has no screw.

[Wewaman]

Didn't get a chance yesterday Magnolia had other plans she said we had to go to Grandmas and help her do a few things,  so we did      
Well I bought some hose pinchers at the local  Auto Value and they work great .
 I ran into some issues MY FAULT    I started her up using choke then turned choke off( or so I thought)  I started on #3  and got a reading then pinched #3  and adjusted #1 to match , went to #5 and did the same everything going as planned adjusting idle as I went.   Went around to #2 and  took reading and started to adjust and adjust and ( to much)and idle went WAY WAY up so I went around bike and started turning idle screw but it didn't want to slow down so I kept turning until it fell off in my hand.  Uh Oh   turned bike off and let her cool down for about 30 mins with fans still blowing on radiator.  Came in and made a sandwich then went back to shed ,  put idle screw back in and started looking at the choke cable well the left side did not retract but the right side did.  I just touched the rail and it snapped close.  So I started all over again.  Went thru all of them once  then I checked #3 and it was different from the first round so I adjusted again .
Seems that after I do #6 it changes #3 a little bit, at least the first 2 rounds.
So I came in to get a refill (thirsty) and I am planning on checking #3 before each intake and adjusting if necessary.

So far so good,  I haven't thrown any temper tantrums this time    I'm getting better.

Will report back when finished,
Thanks again,
Tony

[salty1]

Go for it Tony!!!