Afraid to switch - C/T

[twdurdentwd]

.

[Grandpot]

Interesting thread.

[R J]

Question,   Is that afraid to switch from or to a C-T?

[DarkSideR]

As soon as I reply to this.. a huge can of worms will be opened.

You will find Nay-Sayers, and advocates alike. So I will save you a ton of reading by summarizing it all right here, right now.

Advocates will say;
 - Proof is in the pudding.
  + There are 10's of thousands of miles logged on CT's.
  + There are no known issues caused from running CT's.
 - You have to find the right CT for you!
  + I started on a Triple, and now on a Sportrac. Love the Sportrac, didn't love the Triple.

Nay-Sayers will say;
 - YOU WILL SURELY DIE!
 - Tried it and hated it. Oh and you will too!
 - Then someone will post the scientific, physics based reason that it absolutely cannot work.
 
Your Part on making the decision;
 - If you ride 2-3 thousand miles a year, it may not be for you.
 - If you ride more than 10k a year, it may be for you.
 - If you decide to us a CT please understand you will need to make a modification to the rear fender.
 - If you decide to go with a CT, ask in a post about the current CT's being used, with their pro's and cons and make an informed decision.

Good Luck.

[twdurdentwd]

Afraid to switch to

What type of mod will I need to make to the rear fender?

Well...I put enough miles on the bike to have needed to change the rear after only 3 months so c/t sounds like what I need; however, just..precarious. Not all roads are completely flat and have somewhat of a "dyke" in the center which allows water runoff which only puts a 1-2% grade and i'm curious about the pulling and at what grade does this pulling begin?

[Jess from VA]

http://lifeisaroad.com/stories/2005/08/24/valkyrieRearFenderNutCageMod.html

[twdurdentwd]

That's awesome thanks!

[Punisher]

Fender mod depends on the tire chosen.   An Austone Taxi tire doesn't require any fender modifications.   I am running one on an Interstate, loaded heavy and two up, with an unmodified fender and it works just fine.

Practically any other tire, especially in the 205 range, will require fender mods.

[twdurdentwd]

Good info - how many miles have you put on that tire so far? How's the wear?

[Punisher]

I have near 10k on mine and visually can't tell tell there is any wear, look as good as when I put it on.

Don't know anyone yet that has been running one long enough to wear it out.   I seem to recall reading about some GoldWinger's getting close to 40k out of them but don't know if that's true or not.

I've pushed that tire hard through the curves, all the lean angle the Valk will give and never did that tire cause me to lose confidence in it.

So far I've been very pleased with it.

[Skinhead]

Fender mod depends on the tire chosen.   An Austone Taxi tire doesn't require any fender modifications.   I am running one on an Interstate, loaded heavy and two up, with an unmodified fender and it works just fine.

Practically any other tire, especially in the 205 range, will require fender mods.

any bottoming out issues on bumps?

Good info - how many miles have you put on that tire so far? How's the wear?

Here's link to a post I made that shows wear on ATT.
http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,63892.0.html

[DarkSideR]

I had a Good Year Triple Tread that I put 17k on. I didn't like how it handled so I replaced it. But at 17k it still had a 1/3 of it's tread life still on it.

If you are not sure which route to go with a CT, I would highly recommend going with the Austone Taxi Tire. They are not cheap but hands down will be most like a bike tire, and will give you excellent mileage.

I ride a Vredestein Sprotrac 3 (http://www.tiresbyweb.com/p-9409-vredestein-sportrac-3-tires.aspx) which I have found to be a not only great handling tire, but also a great looking tire.

You can spend any where from $65 to $170 and find a great handling CT for your bike.

[Hoser]

.

Suit yourself, nobody says you have to switch or not.  At least they shouldn't.  Hoser 

[Mr.BubblesVRCCDS0008]

I have 172,000 miles on this bike over 110,000  have been with CT's. Previous bike had over 30k on it with a CT when I sold it. new owner Still runs a CT on it.  Suits me great may not be for everybody tho.

[twdurdentwd]

Think I'll go with the ATT. Too much torque make the tire too bald....

[Punisher]

Fender mod depends on the tire chosen.   An Austone Taxi tire doesn't require any fender modifications.   I am running one on an Interstate, loaded heavy and two up, with an unmodified fender and it works just fine.

Practically any other tire, especially in the 205 range, will require fender mods.

any bottoming out issues on bumps?

None with an average sized chick on the back 

Most of the time I have gals between 125lb and 180lb on the back, no problems.  One time I had a healthy gal at 240 on the back and with my weight of 275 that was a bit too much.   Came over a rise in the highway and bottomed out a little bit on the other side, not bad though considering the amount of azz on the bike, just caught a whiff of rubber burnin'.     I use Works shocks with 600lb springs, no pre-load yet (when the gal gets much above 200 it's time for some pre-load).   Best shocks I've ever tried, especially on an Interstate.   Everyone that has ridden behind me on curvy roads mentions how stable my bike appears compared to everyone else.  Not cheap but worth every penny to me.

Good info - how many miles have you put on that tire so far? How's the wear?

Here's link to a post I made that shows wear on ATT.
http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,63892.0.html

Nearly double the miles I have and still looking very good.   I bet you'll be able to get 30-35k easily.

[Gavin_Sons]

IMHO a tripple tread is not a good beginner car tire. I know a bunch of you guys run it but I would go with a more rounded profile tire to begin with. I started with a Falken Ziex 512 in a 205/65/16 and found it too tall as it would bottom out on a big bump. I ran that tire for probably 8k before I switched to a yokohama advid envigor in a 205/60/16. This tire rides better than the falken and have not bottomed it out yet. It has a nice rounded profile which is easier to lean into a corner. I was not crazy about the falken and thought about switching back to a mc tire until I found the yokohama.  Your first tire choice may not be your favorite but try to find one that is more rounded on the sides and I bet you will be happy.  Oh yeah, im still waiting on that flaming death to occur caused by a car tire.

[twdurdentwd]

I'm experienced, however I'm closer to 200lbs and would be ashamed to drop the Phat Lady.. I'm thinking the ATT and suck it up

[Gavin_Sons]

Oops I thought you were talking about the gytt now I see your talking about the taxi tire. My bad.

[gordonv]

Don't forget the regular maintenance at 10-15K miles, the same as if you replaced your MC tire.

This is the rear end lube and O-rings service. Don't run your new CT to bald and not do this 10K service. Inexpensive o-ring can be had from Carolina Trike (I think) shop.

[twdurdentwd]

Thanks for the info Gordon, what's involved with this service?

[97BLKVALK]

Check out the Rear End Service on this page.

http://www.valkyrieriders.com/shoptalk/

Michael

[Tailgate Tommy]

'Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.' -Yoda


Here's Carolina Bike and Trike site for the orings.
http://www.carolinabikeandtrike.com/ORings.htm

[Moonshot_1]

And here we go!



The best rear tire on a motorcycle is the one you have confidence in. If you don't have confidence in the tire it will just add to the worries.

I'm running a Goodyear Triple Tred. 205/60/16. 2nd one. I like it and have confidence in it. I did not need to make any mods on the rear fender. (99 Tourer). And yes, it will run really really close to the shaft cover. Maybe 2 credit cards between the tire and shaft cover. But it never rubs. Ever.

Used to run Avons. Like them too but they are pricey and don't last too long. That's the big draw back to the MC tire. They wear down the center so fast and I lose confidence in them after 5k or so.

Anyway, lots of good info on this site.

Different tires give you different performance profiles. I do like the GYTT but will look at others next time around.

There is a modest difference in the handling from a MC tire to a CT. For most, it is not an issue and it simply requires a few moments to get acclimated to it. A few folks just can't get confident with it and switch back.

Again, I go back to the philosophy to use what you have confidence in. It is supposed to be fun.

I do on occasion ride different bikes. Bikes with MC tires. I do not notice a handling difference when I go from my bike to a bike with a MC tire, but I do notice it a bit when I go back to my bike. It's that subtle.

If you can, find some one with a Darkside Valk and see if you can give it a whirl before you make the switch.

As it has been said, if you are putting a lot of miles/year on the bike, this is a good option to look into.
If you are a casual weekend rider, then this is probably not the way to go.

[nogrey]

Really, you need to try it. How else will you really know. I did. I'm not critical one way or the other. I think the tire you chose will make a lot of difference in your experience, so research it a lot.
Here's my experience:

   
Darkside Verdict after 35K miles: It's up to you!
« on: October 17, 2013, 22:29:04 »
Quote  Modify
OK, Here's the statistics: 2001 Valkyrie Interstate. General Ultimax HP. (My personal preference was 26PSI riding one up on the Interstate), and have tried both Metzler 880's and Avon Cobra's on the front. No complaints about either.

Pro's: Lot's of traction. You simply can't "break traction" with the Ultimax.
Great contact patch: It''s been proven time and time again (there are even videos on youtube) that the contact patch even in corners is superior to a motorcycle tire.
Superior tire life: After 35K miles, it still looks like a new tire!

Con's: Low speed performance. This is my number one gripe. It simply doesn't handle as well at low speeds (below 30MPH). Wants to "stand up" or "straighten up" the bike at low speeds. Makes it difficult to steer.
Tight curves: More difficult to maneuver on very tight "twisties". I have proven it time and time again. And to be specific, I'm talking about curves so tight, you must slow to 30mph or less.
Front tire wear: This may be a new one to you. I've never read it on the forum, but my personal experience is that the car tire on the rear works the front tire harder, thus wearing it out faster!
Less fun: Yes, I'll have to say that overall it's just not as fun to ride on a car tire. I have now had the pleasure of proving this fact on more than 7 Valkyries. Interstates, Tourers and standards. It's just not as much fun to ride on a car tire (personal opinion).

VERY IMPORTANT FOR CAR TIRE USERS: SINCE THE FRONT TIRE IS "TAXED" MORE WHEN RIDING WITH A CAR TIRE, IT IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT THAT YOU REPLACE THE FRONT TIRE AT THE FIRST SIGNS OF STEERING DIFFICULTY! I've been through 3 front tires since my experiment with the "Dark Side". It has been my experience that the performance of the front tire has a much larger impact on maneuverability when used in conjunction with a car tire than it does when used with a standard MC rear tire. I found myself literally forcing my way through curves when the front tire began to reach "end of life". The overall impact of this was that the the car tire was forcing my bike to want to "stand up" in the curves much more than when the front tire was new. The proof? Replacing the front tire made a night and day difference!! Making the bike ride almost as well as when it had a MC tire on the rear. The key term here being "ALMOST". Fact is, it's still not a MC tire and therefore not MC tire performance. My front tires lasted effectively about 10K miles. I ran them 12K, which I now believe to be too long. Never wore them down to the "wear bars", they just ceased to steer as well in the corners.

BOTTOM LINE: After 35K miles with a car tire, I've replaced it with a MC tire again. No plans to go back either. I guess when it comes right down to it, my decision is based on overall performance. Yes motorcycle tires are expensive (frankly, a rip off). Yes they wear out faster, but this is my hobby. And damn it! I'm going to enjoy it to the fullest. And for me, that means running the best motorcycle tires that money can buy on my Valkyrie. Shoot, when you consider the money you've put into the bike, you might as well accept the additional cost associated with the tires that will make that bike perform the way the designers intended it to.

I own two Valks (at the moment). An interstate and a tourer. They are SO MUCH MORE FUN, RESPONSIVE AND EXCITING to ride when outfitted with their intended skins. (again, my opinion). I'm going back to the "light side" and pretty much intending to stay there.

Yes, you can "get used" to riding with a car tire. I never had a single incident that made me doubt that. If you like the "dark side", then by God, stick with it. I'm not trying to change anyone's mind here. Just taking the time to give my personal experiences.
If you haven't tried the dark side but are wondering if you should, my suggestion is to GO FOR IT! It's less expensive, and in my opinion, very safe.
If you haven't tried the dark side and don't want to: Good for you! You are already at a place that took me 35K miles to figure out for myself!

Whatever your aversion, "Dark Side" or "Traditional", I hope you have as much fun and joy as I do just riding these delightful machines!
Keep the shiny side up!
Nogrey.

[Jess from VA]

I appreciate your post and experience.  

I think a CT is more fun to ride than a BT, once you are expert in riding one.  Slow speeds, crawls, and hair turns are no issue for me, and I've only run the Goodyears (GATT) which are not the favored CTs anymore. When I say more fun, what i mean is in the same sense as when I got my 69 corvette, it had to be a 4speed and manual steering (not power steering).... more driver input being more fun.

I am fully with you on a good front tire being essential to a good riding experience on any rear tire, and do believe a good front acts to minimize the small negative CT handling issues.

What I cannot grasp is how a CT acts to stress/prematurely wear a front BT.  How does it know?  

I only run front Metz radials (with one bias experiment) and they all wore out at 8-10K on both CTs and bike tires.

[al v]

Personally, i think the slow speed handling of a CT is a plus. I love the added slow speed stability. U-turns are so much easier.

The one con is you have to be more aware of unlevel ground at slow speed. A CT will want to follow the angle of the ground more so than a bike tire.

The valk is a lot of bike, it easily spins or slides the rear on wet roads with a bike tire. For me, its purely a traction/safety decision. I switched for the added wet road traction and braking. For that reason alone i would not switch back. Honestly, it's the bike tires I've had that have scared me.

[jmann]

I think the C/T you chose makes all the difference. My first C/T did not handle road irregularities well at all. It was a Yokohama but a square shouldered tire. The Yoko Avid Envigor I run now is more rounded and handles EXACTLY like a motorcycle tire. If you didn't know it was a C/T on the back you would not find any road conditions that would make you think otherwise. It has great characteristics and I will buy another when the time comes. To each his own. 

[twdurdentwd]

How many miles have you put on it and what's the wear like?

[jmann]

I have 10k on it and am expecting about 25-30k total. It was $115 to my door and I mounted it myself. Used ride on for balancing. I did the nut cage mod just in case, though I don't think it would have been necessary.

[Moonshot_1]

My first Goodyear Triple Tred was replaced at 33k. This was only because of (at the time) an upcoming extended road trip and I wanted some new rubber for it. Otherwise I could have finished out the season and gotten another 5k+.

And I too, like the slow speed handling. Never thought of it as an issue.

[art]

Personally, i think the slow speed handling of a CT is a plus. I love the added slow speed stability. U-turns are so much easier.

The one con is you have to be more aware of unlevel ground at slow speed. A CT will want to follow the angle of the ground more so than a bike tire.

The valk is a lot of bike, it easily spins or slides the rear on wet roads with a bike tire. For me, its purely a traction/safety decision. I switched for the added wet road traction and braking. For that reason alone i would not switch back. Honestly, it's the bike tires I've had that have scared me.

After 125000 miles on a c/t I switched to a mc tire due to the fact that I had a new Avon cobra I got with a replacement rear wheel. Within six months I almost went down due to lost traction and the last time I did go down and had serious injury. I decided to call it quits and the valk is going up for sale. To damn old for this crap. We are lucky that my wife wasn't  on board at the time. The c/t never gave me any trouble.

[twdurdentwd]

Personally, i think the slow speed handling of a CT is a plus. I love the added slow speed stability. U-turns are so much easier.

The one con is you have to be more aware of unlevel ground at slow speed. A CT will want to follow the angle of the ground more so than a bike tire.

The valk is a lot of bike, it easily spins or slides the rear on wet roads with a bike tire. For me, its purely a traction/safety decision. I switched for the added wet road traction and braking. For that reason alone i would not switch back. Honestly, it's the bike tires I've had that have scared me.

After 125000 miles on a c/t I switched to a mc tire due to the fact that I had a new Avon cobra I got with a replacement rear wheel. Within six months I almost went down due to lost traction and the last time I did go down and had serious injury. I decided to call it quits and the valk is going up for sale. To damn old for this crap. We are lucky that my wife wasn't  on board at the time. The c/t never gave me any trouble.

Okay, I'm sold but now comes down to...which C/T?? so I'll do some re-reading of this thread then prolly make a decision....so far I'm thinking the Austone texi but we'll see

[DarkSideR]

3 Tires you cannot go wrong with.

 - Austone Taxi Tire $152.00
  + https://www.universaltire.com/dunlop-tires/dunlop-radial-tires/175r16-austone-taxi-black.html
 - Vredestein Sportrac 3 205/65 (I'm using it) $158.00
  + http://www.tiresbyweb.com/p-9409-vredestein-sportrac-3-tires.aspx
 - General Altimax HP 205/60 (Alot of VRCC guys riding this) $76.00
  + http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=General&tireModel=Altimax+HP&partnum=06HR6AMAXHP&vehicleSearch=false&fromCompare1=yes

Hope this helps.

OH! Then make sure you get a VRCC Darkside # 

[al v]

A lot of guys are using the yokohama avid envigor in a 205/60/16 as well. This is what I have.

Just a note, if you already have trouble reaching the ground, the taxi tire adds a little bit of extra height.

I had heard a while back the envigor wasn't being sold anymore, but I just checked tirerack.com and it is still listed.

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Yokohama&tireModel=AVID+ENVigor+%28H-+or+V-Speed+Rated%29&sidewall=Blackwall&partnum=06VR6ENV&tab=Sizes

[mustang071965]

been riding 3 years now on CT. mine is the General Ultimax HP. i run 40psi in it and it handles great. still looks like new. ( over 16,000 miles now ) use to run Avon Cobra on rear but did not last 1 year. the CT has more traction then MC you can feel it grabbing in curves and wet roads. it took about 25 miles to get use to they way it handles. top end better them MC tire, it shines at highway speeds. turns well me and dad road the twist and turns in the Black hills the first year and it took them with ease. now the low speed i found below 5 mph like in parking lots you need to keep your landing gear down ( feet ) but it is still easy to turn. but i have always kept my landing gear down in lots because of the pot holes and citizens that dart out infront of you. if you want to go Dark side the do a little research. go to Dark side on the web they list all the CT that are good to use and the CT to stay away from, plus they list from riders there opinions of the tire in use along with pros and cons.

[fudgie]

I musta read stuff on here for 3 yrs before I did it. Wish I woulda did it 3 yrs before! My 1st 30 miles I was disappointed in it. Only because I found no faults with it, it handled just like my 200 metzler did. My low steed hadling has greatly increased. Off road can be tricky but I dont let it stop me. Plus its fun to lay 20' worth of tracks across a intersection w/o getting squirrly.  Had a friend hide my bike one night and he couldnt tell it was a CT.
Research your tires. There is a diff in tires. Some will work some wont.

[Raverez]

Us Tarrenton Smokers would rather fight than switch.

[Skinhead]

I got tired of changing rear tires and babying my bike trying to keep from wearing out rear tires.  I thought of going to a car tire and the choice was made for me on my way home from a trip to Maine.  I stopped for the night at my Mother's in Pittsburgh on a Saturday, me and my 2 riding buds just got done hammering our way from Scranton to the 'burgh.  When I checked my tires at the end of the day, this is what my Metzler looked like
.  

The next day was Sunday, no sickle shops open so I found a Ma & Pa tire shop open and they had a 205/60r16 Bridgestone Potenza.  I had to sweet talk them into mounting it for me.  Put the wheel back on and rode the 300 mile to Detroit.  The rest is history, been Darkside ever since.

DON'T BE ASKERT

[Pappy!]

Toyo Proxes on mine for about 20,000 miles but put a nail through it and it was getting old anyway.
Just bought and installed a Vredestrian Sportrac 3 in 205/60-16 on Tuesday morning. This is the next size shorter from the one Joshcornkid has on his bike. Look up a few threads above this one.  Not a lot of experience with this tire yet but I can tell you the crown on this tire definitely feels more like a bike tire than the Toyo did. Also the deep pattern in the center of the tire will be a great asset in our Florida rains. Great handling and a super rain tire....what more could you ask for.