New owner, performance up grade questions, cams, head work, exhaust

[67blkbrd]

Im a proud new owner of a 98 Valkyrie standard. My uncle gave it to me with 18k miles on it after it had been sitting in his garage since 2005. The bike is in like new condition and he did some basic modifications to it including a K&N filter and I don't know who's 6 into 6 exhaust. If this helps ID the exhaust, all the exhaust tips turn out like old school side pipes.

I when I got the bike home I rebuilt the carburetors and re jetted them 38/105 with needle shims under the front two needles and interstate springs. I did my own version of a desmog kit and installed a little K&N filter on the CCV canister to keep the hot CC vapors out of the A/F mix. I also advanced the timing at the wheel 2* with added timing with the addition of a diode, resistor and a pot that I have set at 8*. I also performed a complete service and replaced the front tire.

These are the modifications i want to do but am unsure if they are worth the effort and money so Im asking what results others have attained. DPR cams, some home porting in the bowl and un shroud the valves with maybe a little head shave for a bump in compression. I have ported many sets of heads from 2 stroke to diesel with success, proven success on the bench, dyno and at the track so I do have faith that I can gain some power there depending on what Honda left on the table. Im also thinking about cutting the exhaust off under the foot peg and installing some collectors to make a 6 into 2 exhaust with a X pipe or a 6 into one exhaust. The 6 into 6 looks cool enough but provides no benefit from scavenging benefits from a good collector and/or a good x-over, x or merge pipe. My thoughts on the exhaust are based off performance first and appearance second use for it. I have also been thinking about installing a 200 series tire on the rear more so for appearance than performance

I'll pot some pics when I figure out how to do it
Any input is welcome

[csj]

I like the idea of that crossover pipe, would like to see
some dyno before and after, and does the mpg get better.

My old V65 Magna had a collector between the pegs,
bike got 42mpg, and would certainly run with the valk.

There's a member on this board 'attic rat' who runs a
performance shop, had modded a number of valk engines,
and the bike owners appear to have had big smiles.

[BonS]

. . . and I don't know who's 6 into 6 exhaust. If this helps ID the exhaust, all the exhaust tips turn out like old school side pipes. . .

Can't add much except that they're Two Brothers 6x6 pipes.

[salty1]

Looking forward to your pics! Sounds like you know your way around an engine, but I have to ask how much more performance does one need from a bike that already runs like a scalded dog? 

[N8171S]

The turned out pipes are most likley 2 Brothers  racing.  I had them on my valk for years.  They do not require any carb rejetting like cobras.

[gordonv]

I believe the Goldwing's have the X over, why not look theirs over first, and see if this is what you want, or to get one and modify to your need.

[67blkbrd]

. . . and I don't know who's 6 into 6 exhaust. If this helps ID the exhaust, all the exhaust tips turn out like old school side pipes. . .

Can't add much except that they're Two Brothers 6x6 pipes.

That there is plenty, thank you

The turned out pipes are most likley 2 Brothers  racing.  I had them on my valk for years.  They do not require any carb rejetting like cobras.

Thank you, 2 for 2 so they must be 2 brothers. My uncle couldn't remember what they were. I did the jetting because I am at sea level and the stock tune up was a touch lean more so on the front two cylinders.

I believe the Goldwing's have the X over, why not look theirs over first, and see if this is what you want, or to get one and modify to your need.

I was looking at the gold wing exhaust systems and they are cheap enough that I think it would be a good idea to play around with a set of those before butchering up these nice shiny pipes.

Looking forward to your pics! Sounds like you know your way around an engine, but I have to ask how much more performance does one need from a bike that already runs like a scalded dog? 

I like it, it has a lot more pep than I expected but this is my fist bike that is not a sport bike and it's the slowest of my toys that have four wheels and that just ain't rite.

[Gryphon Rider]

MarkT at horseapple.com modifies stock pipes with glass pack mufflers and optional crossover pipe. Check out his web site and see if you really want to reinvent the wheel.

[67blkbrd]

MarkT at horseapple.com modifies stock pipes with glass pack mufflers and optional crossover pipe. Check out his web site and see if you really want to reinvent the wheel.

I don't have a stock exhaust to work with and I really would like to try a X pipe like i have on my 9. sec street/strip car. The x pipe changed the tone of the exhaust and it improved mid range power for street driving. The x pipe wasn't worth much at the track, only about .02 in the 1/4.

[67blkbrd]

Okay! I figured it out. Here's a pic of my Valkyrie and the front fender of a 70 Ford Maverick I'm doing a restomod on for the little woman. She always wanted one, don't ask me why.

[98valk]

Vee or flat 6 cylinder engines really don't see a big benefit from cross-overs except lowering dbs such as the GW wisper quiet.
 V-8 cylinder engines do benefit.
just research the above.

[DarkSideR]

The research that I have done on Cams proved that they don't work. I couldn't find anyone with any positives. There however is one exception. If your bike is a California model, then replacing the Cams with Non-CA Cams is worth while.

There is a guy here on the VRCC that works wonders with Valks. Look up Attic Rat. He is currently the leading authority on what it takes to get more out of the Valk motors.

[67blkbrd]

The research that I have done on Cams proved that they don't work. I couldn't find anyone with any positives. There however is one exception. If your bike is a California model, then replacing the Cams with Non-CA Cams is worth while.

There is a guy here on the VRCC that works wonders with Valks. Look up Attic Rat. He is currently the leading authority on what it takes to get more out of the Valk motors.

Thanks for your input. I came up with the same conclusion based on what I found last night about the cams offered. I pulled the heads off my bike last night and noticed that there is some power to be found in decking the heads alone , not only from the compression bump but the factory quench is jacked up and easily resolved. The bowl area isn't the worst I have seen but there is room for improvement there as well.

[vanagon40]

With regard to the cross over exhaust, you might send a PM to R J with questions.  Here are a couple of links to his posts showing the cross over pipe:  Link 1   Link 2

[67blkbrd]

With regard to the cross over exhaust, you might send a PM to R J with questions.  Here are a couple of links to his posts showing the cross over pipe:  Link 1   Link 2

Thank you for the info, it looks like the x-over or a x pipe won't be worth the effort or cost. But I still need to change out the 6 into 6 for a 6 into 2 set up or Ill cut the pipes I have and add a pair of collectors and  muffs.

[wingrider02]

You can probably get more selling your current pipes, and finding a set of cut up stockers to work your magic on....just a thought.

[67blkbrd]

The head work was well worth the effort

[rocketray]

I have a few post's on this and the bottom line is.....cams..called web cams and they gave me a guy in california who put some in ...but no dyno results ...maybe a few hp     airbox ...consensus is leave it alone   ignition      at max RPM's   the ignition is perfect    down low it is  in need of some advance but the trigger wheels do that but give too much advance up top and can even burn pistons.....exhaust...the viking headers with their needles did work      Dag from norway with those and the ? higher "97 cams got 108 hp on a dyno    rare as hens teeth but I scored some with the dyna 3000 ignition no longer available.....   bottom line?? put some cobra's on it for some roar      or keep it quiet and enjoy the ride     some do a small shot of nitrous but doubt it is worth it   the Attic Rat  for some dough does apparently after a very tedious  tortuous  work of love  involving many dyno runs and rebuilds.....exhaustingly...is your best bet for some true torque/hp gains...if you want 125 hp  try the new valkyrie

[67blkbrd]

I have a few post's on this and the bottom line is.....cams..called web cams and they gave me a guy in california who put some in ...but no dyno results ...maybe a few hp     airbox ...consensus is leave it alone   ignition      at max RPM's   the ignition is perfect    down low it is  in need of some advance but the trigger wheels do that but give too much advance up top and can even burn pistons.....exhaust...the viking headers with their needles did work      Dag from norway with those and the ? higher "97 cams got 108 hp on a dyno    rare as hens teeth but I scored some with the dyna 3000 ignition no longer available.....   bottom line?? put some cobra's on it for some roar      or keep it quiet and enjoy the ride     some do a small shot of nitrous but doubt it is worth it   the Attic Rat  for some dough does apparently after a very tedious  tortuous  work of love  involving many dyno runs and rebuilds.....exhaustingly...is your best bet for some true torque/hp gains...if you want 125 hp  try the new valkyrie

Thanks for your informative input. The timing issue is one that needs to be addressed I found that anything more than +3* above 6k rpm has a negative effect on power so I have the wheel key cut to provide +2* and use the electronic timing mod to give it the low end timing that it likes. But those two ways of adding timing leave a big hole in the timing curve between 3500 & around 5500 rpm. Not sure what I will do about that but hopefully I can figure something out. I have already forgotten about the cam as I have yet to find any good reviews on them. The head work was fairly straight forward, a bowl cleanup and blend with .062 cut off the head surface and a little un shrouding of the valves with a combustion chamber clean up. I picked up power the entire rpm range with a big power gain in the 4000-5800 range, really pleased with the cost/effort to power gain. I have my 6 into 6 exhaust for sale on the local CL because I see them being nothing more that a pretty power thief. After seeing the size of the intake/exhaust valves and port size my opinion is that any header other than stock has primary tubes that are too large for anything other than a all out race application. So I bought a nice low mileage set of GW headers that I am going to try with a pair of Vance & Hines HD Road king slip on mufflers. I'll strip all the heat shield mounting tabs off and have the GW headers ceramic coated  black or ceramichrome, undecided on the color but I am thinking black since they tuck up so tight to the frame. As for buying a new Valk, that isn't gong to happen this bike was given to me as a gift from a uncle and it stays. I have plans on buying another zx14r to satisfy my 2 wheel need for speed but I like toying with my friends that ride HD's with something other than a sport bike. Before the head work i could pull some lengths on my friends warmed over 107 twin cam but today I flat smoked him so I almost have the fat girl where i want her.

[pancho]

It would be nice to see some pictures of the head work.

[67blkbrd]

I suppose i should have taken some pics but I didn't. It was kind of spur of the moment. I had been kicking it around with no real urgency about it until I came home from a short ride on Tuesday. I pretty much took a leak, changed my cloths and got busy. I have ported my share of heads but I can think of maybe a couple times that I took pictures of the work. Nothing top secret or anything I just don't think "hey! I should take a picture of that" when I'm doing it. What I am thinking about is getting it back together to see if Im a hero or a zero .

[Ricky-D]

It never fails with any kind of modification, whether that be to the engine or bike, that the resultant "increase in performance" is well documented by owners, with reports substantiated with very accurate "butt dyno" readouts.

Actually, just a wash job will result in at least a five horsepower increase.

Not to mention how the handling also improves.

***

[67blkbrd]

It never fails with any kind of modification, whether that be to the engine or bike, that the resultant "increase in performance" is well documented by owners, with reports substantiated with very accurate "butt dyno" readouts.

Actually, just a wash job will result in at least a five horsepower increase.

Not to mention how the handling also improves.

***

Sarcasm is always nice. But I dont recall giving "very accurate" power numbers, ie the bike went from 80 hp to 95.2 hp.  I will say that going from a strong pull at a 10mph hit of the throttle to spinning the tire on the same 10mph hit of the throttle with no clutch play is a little more than imagination. Aside from the fact that prior to the work the power band would peter out above 6000 rpm and now it pulls to rev limit. Some people are a little more in tune with mechanical objects than others. Then you have those that believe that there is nothing better than stock. The people that think stock is best seem to forget that the manufacturer has to please a wide range of riders and riding styles and emission standards, this tends to leave something on the table for those that are willing to spend the time or money to pull out those extra ponies. If the factory or a dealer offered a super tuned version I would bet that similar head work would be one of the things that they would address. If you know anything about head flow and you have seen these heads off a engine you would agree that aside from compression bump there is much to be gained by "fixing" the quench/squish issue in the combustion chamber and the bowl area where the bowl meets the valve seat.  But I guess the most important thing about the work is that I am pleased with the end result, imaginary or not

[R J]

It never fails with any kind of modification, whether that be to the engine or bike, that the resultant "increase in performance" is well documented by owners, with reports substantiated with very accurate "butt dyno" readouts.

Actually, just a wash job will result in at least a five horsepower increase.

Not to mention how the handling also improves.

***

Sarcasm is always nice. But I dont recall giving "very accurate" power numbers, ie the bike went from 80 hp to 95.2 hp.  I will say that going from a strong pull at a 10mph hit of the throttle to spinning the tire on the same 10mph hit of the throttle with no clutch play is a little more than imagination. Aside from the fact that prior to the work the power band would peter out above 6000 rpm and now it pulls to rev limit. Some people are a little more in tune with mechanical objects than others. Then you have those that believe that there is nothing better than stock. The people that think stock is best seem to forget that the manufacturer has to please a wide range of riders and riding styles and emission standards. If the factory or a dealer offered a super tuned version I would bet that similar head work would be one of the things that they would address. If you know anything about head flow and you have seen these heads off a engine you would agree that aside from compression bump there is much to be gained by "fixing" the quench/squish issue in the combustion chamber and the bowl area where the bowl meets the valve seat.  But I guess the most important thing about the work is that I am pleased with the end result, imaginary or not

Very glad you are happy.    I think you are smart enough to know that upping the grunt on one thing makes someting else the weak link.

Trust me on that, we built a Drag Car in my CHP area with the kids in the surrounding neighborhood.   It was our $$$, none of it came from California except in our paychecks.

Like I said earlier, ya build the clutch area, and then the transmission or the rear end is the part that breaks.    1st build of anything to get more speed, the brakes then need upgraded.  It is just a round robin as to what will break next.

We had a very competative car, but something broke on a pretty regular basis.   We had many Trophies and made some $$$$, but not enough to cover all expenses.    But we kept the kids out of trouble with our efforts.

I still hear from several of them, they are now in upper management with College Degrees, making big bucks.

 

[67blkbrd]

It never fails with any kind of modification, whether that be to the engine or bike, that the resultant "increase in performance" is well documented by owners, with reports substantiated with very accurate "butt dyno" readouts.

Actually, just a wash job will result in at least a five horsepower increase.

Not to mention how the handling also improves.

***

Sarcasm is always nice. But I dont recall giving "very accurate" power numbers, ie the bike went from 80 hp to 95.2 hp.  I will say that going from a strong pull at a 10mph hit of the throttle to spinning the tire on the same 10mph hit of the throttle with no clutch play is a little more than imagination. Aside from the fact that prior to the work the power band would peter out above 6000 rpm and now it pulls to rev limit. Some people are a little more in tune with mechanical objects than others. Then you have those that believe that there is nothing better than stock. The people that think stock is best seem to forget that the manufacturer has to please a wide range of riders and riding styles and emission standards. If the factory or a dealer offered a super tuned version I would bet that similar head work would be one of the things that they would address. If you know anything about head flow and you have seen these heads off a engine you would agree that aside from compression bump there is much to be gained by "fixing" the quench/squish issue in the combustion chamber and the bowl area where the bowl meets the valve seat.  But I guess the most important thing about the work is that I am pleased with the end result, imaginary or not

Very glad you are happy.    I think you are smart enough to know that upping the grunt on one thing makes someting else the weak link.

Trust me on that, we built a Drag Car in my CHP area with the kids in the surrounding neighborhood.   It was our $$$, none of it came from California except in our paychecks.

Like I said earlier, ya build the clutch area, and then the transmission or the rear end is the part that breaks.    1st build of anything to get more speed, the brakes then need upgraded.  It is just a round robin as to what will break next.

We had a very competative car, but something broke on a pretty regular basis.   We had many Trophies and made some $$$$, but not enough to cover all expenses.    But we kept the kids out of trouble with our efforts.

I still hear from several of them, they are now in upper management with College Degrees, making big bucks.

 

Thanks Sadly, I tinker with everything with the exception of the wifes car. We have a street strip 67 Firebird, pump gas car that runs 9.40's in street trim and though stock makes more power there is nothing stock about it except maybe the block but it too has a ton of work done to it. Same goes for the TH400 and the ford 9" that only resembles a factory 9" in appearance. Our pit cart has a Arctic cat 440 in it and oddly enough the factory Yamaha trans axle has held up to the power increase and abuse that goes with it. Our tow rig, a 01 CTD 2500 4x4 Ram is a prime example of the chain reaction of broken parts. I have done a bunch of work to the little 5.9 including compound turbo's, injectors, pump and cam and I have broken every drive train part behind the engine. But a 7000 pound truck that runs high 12.80's @ 108 in the quarter will do that. Oddly enough it makes more power than stock, crazy as it sounds. The good side of all this is it usually promotes some healthy bonding time with like minded friends.

[67blkbrd]

To those that responded to my add for my exhaust, I apologize for not responding. It looks like they are probably sold pending inspection and payment. I had a 12hr notice that I had to work at a remote job site and had much to do in those 12 hrs before I left. The personal internet use is limited up there not that one has much time for farting around anyway. I got home this morning and went for a long ride with a couple friends after a quick shower. It sure was nice to be back on the bike again even better since today was the hottest day this year. It looks like the bike gained about 10% mpg. Prior to the head work I averaged 30mpg today I averaged 33-34mpg with a couple romps to 105-110 mph but most of it just cruising along our local coastline. This was the first tank I could take a realistic average from as the first tank after the head work was mostly playing around with the new found imaginary power gain. The tire I ordered before I left is here and awaiting installation. I bough a 200/60R/16 Bridgestone Exedra Max I think it will fill out the rear fender better than the 180 with no ill affect. I also picked up a HD ultraglide fairing that I want to fit on my bike. It looks like it should be a fairly simple fab project but just the same I feel I should do the fitment before I send it out for paint. I would like to pick up a set of bags for a HD too and see if I can make those work on my Valk. I considered the I/S bags but in my opinion they look like testicles and when installed on a bike they make it look like a rolling roster n balls

[Valkpilot]

It never fails with any kind of modification, whether that be to the engine or bike, that the resultant "increase in performance" is well documented by owners, with reports substantiated with very accurate "butt dyno" readouts.

Actually, just a wash job will result in at least a five horsepower increase.

Not to mention how the handling also improves.

***

+1, but you forgot to mention the 200% increase in MPG.

[67blkbrd]

It never fails with any kind of modification, whether that be to the engine or bike, that the resultant "increase in performance" is well documented by owners, with reports substantiated with very accurate "butt dyno" readouts.

Actually, just a wash job will result in at least a five horsepower increase.

Not to mention how the handling also improves.

***

+1, but you forgot to mention the 200% increase in MPG.

It's only about 10%. I tried something that rarely is worth the effort before our ride yesterday, I indexed the spark plugs and though I didn't notice any gain or loss in power the color on the plug is more uniform. So I guess it's safe to assume that you two have ridden bikes that have had there compression bumped a couple points and have had some port work done to them with jetting and timing optimized to these changes. If you have and did not have a noticeable gain in performance I would find another mechanic/tuner.

[Disco]

I get great mileage after the work that was done.  On my Standard/Tourer tank filled to the seam in the filler neck, I normally hit reserve at 155 miles, but have been as low as the 120s and as high as 180s.      I'd bet the mods help my usually gentle right wrist. 

I also installed the Interstate ICM after the work and not as part of the recipe.  That probably helps a bit, too.   

Doesn't really matter though.  While mpg is obviously a measure of performance, I wasn't going for great mileage when I had the mods done.   

So I guess it's safe to assume that you two have ridden bikes that have had there compression bumped a couple points and have had some port work done to them with jetting and timing optimized to these changes. If you have and did not have a noticeable gain in performance I would find another mechanic/tuner.

ding ding ding ding ding - we have a winner!  If you replace the word "noticeable" with "documented", you've nailed it. 

[Valkpilot]

It never fails with any kind of modification, whether that be to the engine or bike, that the resultant "increase in performance" is well documented by owners, with reports substantiated with very accurate "butt dyno" readouts.

Actually, just a wash job will result in at least a five horsepower increase.

Not to mention how the handling also improves.

***

+1, but you forgot to mention the 200% increase in MPG.

It's only about 10%. I tried something that rarely is worth the effort before our ride yesterday, I indexed the spark plugs and though I didn't notice any gain or loss in power the color on the plug is more uniform. So I guess it's safe to assume that you two have ridden bikes that have had there compression bumped a couple points and have had some port work done to them with jetting and timing optimized to these changes. If you have and did not have a noticeable gain in performance I would find another mechanic/tuner.

My post referenced the reliablity of "butt dynos", which aren't reliable at all, and people make ridiculous and unsupported claims about power and mileage increases associated with how the bike "feels."

Unless you do before and after dyno runs in an environmentallly controlled dyno, any claims made relative to performace are just opinion.

And, it's not safe to assume that I haven't ridden such a bike.  My '97 was owned and modded by Howie The Jet, an associate and friend of Attic Rat.  I believe that Howie and Attic Rat together developed the mods that Attic Rat now performs for people.

The '97 seems smoother, with a more responsive throttle.  It does not seem remarkably more powerful than my '98.  

It does get better mileage than the '98, but that's the only characteristic for which I have actual data to back up these statements.  I also ascribe the better mileage more to the carb tune Howie did than to the "power" modifications.

[67blkbrd]

It never fails with any kind of modification, whether that be to the engine or bike, that the resultant "increase in performance" is well documented by owners, with reports substantiated with very accurate "butt dyno" readouts.

Actually, just a wash job will result in at least a five horsepower increase.

Not to mention how the handling also improves.

***

+1, but you forgot to mention the 200% increase in MPG.

It's only about 10%. I tried something that rarely is worth the effort before our ride yesterday, I indexed the spark plugs and though I didn't notice any gain or loss in power the color on the plug is more uniform. So I guess it's safe to assume that you two have ridden bikes that have had there compression bumped a couple points and have had some port work done to them with jetting and timing optimized to these changes. If you have and did not have a noticeable gain in performance I would find another mechanic/tuner.

My post referenced the reliablity of "butt dynos", which aren't reliable at all, and people make ridiculous and unsupported claims about power and mileage increases associated with how the bike "feels."

Unless you do before and after dyno runs in an environmentallly controlled dyno, any claims made relative to performace are just opinion.

And, it's not safe to assume that I haven't ridden such a bike.  My '97 was owned and modded by Howie The Jet, an associate and friend of Attic Rat.  I believe that Howie and Attic Rat together developed the mods that Attic Rat now performs for people.

The '97 seems smoother, with a more responsive throttle.  It does not seem remarkably more powerful than my '98.  

It does get better mileage than the '98, but that's the only characteristic for which I have actual data to back up these statements.  I also ascribe the better mileage more to the carb tune Howie did than to the "power" modifications.

I don't believe I made any ridiculous claims to any of it and I have been tuning and modifying things for 28 years with full confidence in what I do with no hesitation to report on a loss of engine efficiency to minimal gain. Since I race and have raced since I was old enough to drive I do have a good track record on tuning and modifying and having a feel for it with track times and mph gains to confirm what my "butt dyno" told me before I went to the track to confirm. Is it as accurate as a Dyno? no but as you know the accuracy of Dyno's and flow benches are relative and should be used as a tool more so than the end all be all that the track is. Not to take credit away from Howie and Attic rat but head shaving, porting and jetting was done decades before the Valkyrie "as a motorcycle" was even a thought, these things have been done since the beginning of the internal combustion engine and they apply with varied results to all.

[Disco]

...my "butt dyno"...  Is it as accurate as a Dyno? no but as you know the accuracy of Dyno's and flow benches are relative and should be used as a tool more so than the end all be all that the track is.

You had me right up to there.   

[Valkpilot]

I don't believe I made any ridiculous claims to any of it and I have been tuning and modifying things for 28 years with full confidence in what I do with no hesitation to report on a loss of engine efficiency to minimal gain. Since I race and have raced since I was old enough to drive I do have a good track record on tuning and modifying and having a feel for it with track times and mph gains to confirm what my "butt dyno" told me before I went to the track to confirm. Is it as accurate as a Dyno? no but as you know the accuracy of Dyno's and flow benches are relative and should be used as a tool more so than the end all be all that the track is. Not to take credit away from Howie and Attic rat but head shaving, porting and jetting was done decades before the Valkyrie "as a motorcycle" was even a thought, these things have been done since the beginning of the internal combustion engine and they apply with varied results to all.

Pardon me for not stating, "Not you, of course" in my post.

[67blkbrd]

I don't believe I made any ridiculous claims to any of it and I have been tuning and modifying things for 28 years with full confidence in what I do with no hesitation to report on a loss of engine efficiency to minimal gain. Since I race and have raced since I was old enough to drive I do have a good track record on tuning and modifying and having a feel for it with track times and mph gains to confirm what my "butt dyno" told me before I went to the track to confirm. Is it as accurate as a Dyno? no but as you know the accuracy of Dyno's and flow benches are relative and should be used as a tool more so than the end all be all that the track is. Not to take credit away from Howie and Attic rat but head shaving, porting and jetting was done decades before the Valkyrie "as a motorcycle" was even a thought, these things have been done since the beginning of the internal combustion engine and they apply with varied results to all.

Pardon me for not stating, "Not you, of course" in my post.

Since your post was in my thread I don't really see how I could take it any other way than directed at my report on my personal results. As for the dyno's I use them but not for tuning. For my street strip cars I will make a couple dyno pulls if I feel that the torque converter is not quite where it needs to be. Other than that the only reason and most of my dyno time has been for nothing more than pissing contests between friends and my CTD Dodge ram was my chosen tool for those. Funny thing is that it made different numbers on each and every dyno from 565rwhp/1100 ish tq to 615rwhp/1200+ rwtq . I have never used them specifically for tuning I prefer to use the feel of the power band and shift recovery, plug readings and 1/4 mile MPH, of course you use the 60' times to tune suspension. I guess the short version is this for me. What matters to me on what I drive/ride is how the power delivery feels, not just the peak but how it pulls on a roll on at any speed and how it feels when the hammer is dropped without using the clutch. Between plug readings and my self proclaimed "calibrated butt dyno" I end up with results that I am happy with, considering that I am not trying to peddle a service or parts there really is no hidden agenda other than sharing my experience with this bike with others that have similar bikes that are considering doing similar modifications.

Onto another yet related subject. Maybe it is only my bike that has this problem, not that it is really a problem but I am not really comfortable with 2 spark plugs showing different color than the other 4. The front 2 spark plugs show a leaner reading than the other 4, Im not exactly sure if this is a result of the air box design, relation of the front carbs to the radiator or a water circulation issue. The first method I used to cure this was using different jetting and adjustment on the front two carbs, this worked to even out the plug readings but I wanted to try another method that I use on my nitrous engine that uses a 2 stage plate. On that engine I have one cylinder that runs hotter than the other 7 and it has cost me a piston. The problem on this engine is due to distribution in the intake manifold and we all know that this is not the problem with the valk engine because it does not have a shared plenum. On my nitrous engine I run a heat range 8 on 7 cylinders and a 9 for number 2 cylinder, all plugs read the same since I have done this and I have yet to burn down a ring land since. So with the Valk I bought a set of DPR6, 7 and 8 spark plugs. I changed the jetting and settings back to square and installed the 8's in the front two "1&2" and 7 in the back four. This worked well, provided even color across the board with no loading up or any ill effect until I rode from sea level where I live at to about 4800' in elevation. The bike started to feel a bit soggy in the power delivery department so I pulled the plugs to take a look. They were showing a rich condition so I replaced the 8's with a fresh set of 7's and replaced the 7's in the rear four with the 6's I bought. This worked well to clean up the color and bring back some of the snap at altitude. I have been running the 7's in 1&2 and 6's in the remainder since and the results for me have been good, I have the idle on my bike set at 450-550 RPM and she never misses a beat at idle, has no hesitation at any speed and can smoothly accelerate from about 15mph in 5th gear. The plugs show no sign of "fly turds" or better known as detonation spots or overheating all while staying even and clean.  

[Valkpilot]

Since your post was in my thread I don't really see how I could take it any other way than directed at my report on my personal results. As for the dyno's I use them but not for tuning. For my street strip cars I will make a couple dyno pulls if I feel that the torque converter is not quite where it needs to be. Other than that the only reason and most of my dyno time has been for nothing more than pissing contests between friends and my CTD Dodge ram was my chosen tool for those. Funny thing is that it made different numbers on each and every dyno from 565rwhp/1100 ish tq to 615rwhp/1200+ rwtq . I have never used them specifically for tuning I prefer to use the feel of the power band and shift recovery, plug readings and 1/4 mile MPH, of course you use the 60' times to tune suspension. I guess the short version is this for me. What matters to me on what I drive/ride is how the power delivery feels, not just the peak but how it pulls on a roll on at any speed and how it feels when the hammer is dropped without using the clutch. Between plug readings and my self proclaimed "calibrated butt dyno" I end up with results that I am happy with, considering that I am not trying to peddle a service or parts there really is no hidden agenda other than sharing my experience with this bike with others that have similar bikes that are considering doing similar modifications.

Onto another yet related subject. Maybe it is only my bike that has this problem, not that it is really a problem but I am not really comfortable with 2 spark plugs showing different color than the other 4. The front 2 spark plugs show a leaner reading than the other 4, Im not exactly sure if this is a result of the air box design, relation of the front carbs to the radiator or a water circulation issue. The first method I used to cure this was using different jetting and adjustment on the front two carbs, this worked to even out the plug readings but I wanted to try another method that I use on my nitrous engine that uses a 2 stage plate. On that engine I have one cylinder that runs hotter than the other 7 and it has cost me a piston. The problem on this engine is due to distribution in the intake manifold and we all know that this is not the problem with the valk engine because it does not have a shared plenum. On my nitrous engine I run a heat range 8 on 7 cylinders and a 9 for number 2 cylinder, all plugs read the same since I have done this and I have yet to burn down a ring land since. So with the Valk I bought a set of DPR6, 7 and 8 spark plugs. I changed the jetting and settings back to square and installed the 8's in the front two "1&2" and 7 in the back four. This worked well, provided even color across the board with no loading up or any ill effect until I rode from sea level where I live at to about 4800' in elevation. The bike started to feel a bit soggy in the power delivery department so I pulled the plugs to take a look. They were showing a rich condition so I replaced the 8's with a fresh set of 7's and replaced the 7's in the rear four with the 6's I bought. This worked well to clean up the color and bring back some of the snap at altitude. I have been running the 7's in 1&2 and 6's in the remainder since and the results for me have been good, I have the idle on my bike set at 450-550 RPM and she never misses a beat at idle, has no hesitation at any speed and can smoothly accelerate from about 15mph in 5th gear. The plugs show no sign of "fly turds" or better known as detonation spots or overheating all while staying even and clean.  

I never meant to impugn you personally.  My comment was a general indictment of the butt dyno.  So, I hope we're good there.

As far as Howie and Attic Rat are concerned, I also never meant to imply they were the originators of the mods you mentioned.  But they did sort of institutionalize them for the Valkyrie.

Regarding your front two plugs, CA has posted on this lean condition in the forward carbs.  Hopefully he'll chime in.

[98valk]

the front two carb leanness is from how the front carb bowls receive fuel which is from the center carb bowls. the other carbs have a direct path from the tank.
per www.factorypro.com and as a result of their dyno tuning for their jet kit, they recommend to be slightly richer for the needles on the front two carbs.
stock air box they also use different main jets for the front two.
before my air box mods and using their adjustable needles I used an extra washer for the front stock needles. it makes a difference with how the bike runs. the plugs always look different for me, going to different temp plugs is a proven tuning trick, and usually is due to how the heads cool, I know my small block 340 is know for that on the rear two cylinders.
the valk tech manual pg 6-1 the cooling pattern shows that the coolant from the rad enters btwn the front two cylinders and exits to the rad from the rear cylinders right side and from the front two cylinders left side. my plugs insulators are always different, one of the reasons I use www.evanscooling.com

[quirkyguy001]

I don't know about the butt dyno theories, but i do know the change in performance. Before Attic Rat I would start from a stop at the same Interstate entrance ramp. Before with the only addition to my 97 standard was the 2 bros 6 into 2 carbon pipes. Dyno before was 100. 3

[quirkyguy001]

After exhaust 3 hours later it was 112. I would hit 105 mph when entering highway. After Attic Rat it was 115. Both speeds were throttle wide open. Butt felt the same, but the grin on my face was bigger. After a few months of driving "quickly" I took the Rat's advice and kept it under 3000 rpm. Went from 30 mpg to 40. I know a lot was do to driving sanely, but never got 40 before. I kinda figure the only real test is 2 bikes side by side with 2 skilled riders. Dyno results are interesting, but would be better if printed on nice 2 ply toilet paper.

[67blkbrd]

[/quote]

I never meant to impugn you personally.  My comment was a general indictment of the butt dyno.  So, I hope we're good there.

As far as Howie and Attic Rat are concerned, I also never meant to imply they were the originators of the mods you mentioned.  But they did sort of institutionalize them for the Valkyrie.

Regarding your front two plugs, CA has posted on this lean condition in the forward carbs.  Hopefully he'll chime in.
[/quote]
Were good, thank you for clearing that up and thanks for including others that can help. The information that CA provided makes good sense.

[67blkbrd]

Here is what a 200/60R/16  Bridgestone Exedra Max looks like on a valk. The ride and handling improved both solo and 2 up with this tire no doubt in part due to the factory style Dunlop being almost worn out and better rubber compounds in the Bridgestone. Apologies for the crappy cell phone picture, I can't seem to locate my actual camera.