PowerLet draining battery?

[therapist]

May have found my battery draining problem...or not.  The PowerLet electric outlet is live when the key is turned off.  I assume it is supposed to be that way, and it has been on my bike for many years.  So, seems strange that it would cause problems now, but who knows. The battery charged back up to 100% and maintained the charge overnight, so put it back in minus the PowerLet connector.  We shall see.  Turns out my meter is for volts only, so can't do the amp check. I just will do short riding trips and recheck the battery power. 

While we are discussing it, I always remove the battery from the bike whenever charging...is it necessary?  We don't do that with our cars.

[Michvalk]

Yes, you can charge the battery in the bike. The powerlet can drain the battery very easily. Unless you have to have power when the bike is shut off, I would have it wired so that it only works when the switch is on. And I would replace that socket for a new one, as it obviously has a short, draining the battery. It might also be in the wiring for the outlet, like a rub in the wire casing causing it to ground

[Gryphon Rider]

The way I understand it, all a PowerLet outlet is is simply a receptacle, and doesn't transform, convert, or condition power; current and voltage in equals current and voltage out.  The only way it would use power is if there is a breakdown in wire insulation or dirt on the terminals that allows current to leak to ground.

There really is no need to remove the battery to charge it if you have an automatic charger that reduces power and turns off as the battery becomes fully charged.  I have never needed to charge the battery during riding season, but in the off season I take it out because it's more convenient to keep an eye on it and just in case something goes wrong and it freezes and leaks.

Why not get yourself a sale-price $20 digital multimeter?

[therapist]

I plugged in an air compressor with the key off, and it ran.  I was surprised.  It was installed per instructions, so maybe it is not designed to shut off when the key is off.  I don't even know if it was draining the battery, but this is the only thing I can point to. 

I have a multimeter and assumed it did amps, but it is only voltage.  I will pick up a new multimeter that does so.

[R J]

To find your drain on a battery, you need to pull one of the battery connectors.

Get a pick type indicator with an alligator clip on  it.    Put the alligator tip on the end of the loose battery cable.

Stick the needle part of this instrument in the battery post.

If it lights you have a draw.

Now, are we talking I/S, or Tourer/Std.

If I/S you will have draw from the radio, and several other handle bars items.

So, if it is an I/S, get someone in your neighborhood to assist you that is knowledgeable to checking draw.

If it is Tourer/Std, you can do this by yourself.    Remove a wire and watch the light in the handle.   If it goes out that is your draw.

Now, what the hell does it operate.     If it is a radio, then you will have to live with it.

If it is anything else, wire it to a key off, no power.

Sounds simple but it can be a pain in the arse to find a flunky draw.

I'd start with anything that has been wired into the bike that is not factory.

PS:    If ya pull a wire and the light is still on, put that wire back on and go on to the next one.   Don't get in a hurry as you will more than likely muck something up.

So, if it scares ya to do this, then DO NOT muck with it.   Get someone to help or take it to an electrical repair shop.

[bassman]

My best "guess" is the outlet itself shouldn't draw down the battery during a normal riding season unless something is plugged into it when the motor is not running / charging for an extended period of time OR there is a short in the wiring someplace.  M'be double check all connections and the wiring itself to see if it has rubbed itself raw somewhere over the years.

I always took my battery out of the bike and put it in the warm basement for seasonal storage on the Battery Tender.  Figured it would like it better than being out in the cold garage.  Scientific ?  Have NO idea but the battery worked each spring and I felt better.

Good luck !

[therapist]

Going to take a lengthy ride tomorrow to test it our with the PowerLet disconnected.  I will inspect all the wiring once I get it out in the sun where I can see stuff.  My question on the battery had to do with charging it while the cables were attached, in the bike.  I got in the habit of pulling the battery whenever charging because that is what was recommended for my boat.  The thinking being that the charger could somehow fry the wiring.  I am sure it is an overkill situation.

So, Neil, still not missing the bike?  The weather up north has been perfect for riding, high 60's, low 70's and only a couple days of uncomfortable humidity.  I find it is good for the mind, helps me forget about stuff.

[bassman]

Ron, so far so good without the bike......I REALLY like the look of the F6B but know I won't be
getting one....

[PhredValk]

I have an aux fuse panel under the seat for powering things like my Ipod, GPS, cig lighter etc. When I installed it i used a relay. When I installed it I used a circuit tester to find a wire that was only on with the key turned to use as a trigger for the relay. I use it for my Danmark fuel valve now as well. Nothing takes power from the battery without the key turned.
Fred.

[therapist]

So, it wasn't the Powerlet.  Went for a 20 mile ride and the battery dropped to 55% charge.  Got home and did a voltage check on the battery at 2000 RPM and it read 13/14 volts.  I checked all fuses, including alternator and looked for any worn/loose wires.  I am expecting a new digital tester today so I can do some of the shop manual electrical troubleshooting.  This really pisses me off, as I have been doing more riding this summer and enjoying it.  Hope to find the cure soon.  By the way, it's a standard with 37K miles.  Just wonder about the voltage regulator and alternator.  

[Gryphon Rider]

So, it wasn't the Powerlet.  Went for a 20 mile ride and the battery dropped to 55% charge.  Got home and did a voltage check on the battery at 2000 RPM and it read 13/14 volts.  I checked all fuses, including alternator and looked for any worn/loose wires.  I am expecting a new digital tester today so I can do some of the shop manual electrical troubleshooting.  This really pisses me off, as I have been doing more riding this summer and enjoying it.  Hope to find the cure soon.  By the way, it's a standard with 37K miles.  Just wonder about the voltage regulator and alternator. 

The only thing I can think of that would allow your alternator to show a proper charging voltage at the battery without charging the battery is a bad connection, either at or within the battery or somewhere else in the charging circuit.  A bad connection will show a minimal voltage drop when there is a small amount of current required, but when a large amount of current tries to flow through it, there is a large voltage drop.  If the voltage drop is enough that the battery doesn't "see" more voltage from the alternator than the battery can produce, it simply won't charge. What you haven't said and what would be helpful to know is what is the normal resting voltage of the battery, after the "surface charge" has been removed, and the age of the battery.  The way to test the battery's voltage (disconnected from the bike to eliminate other possible sources of battery discharge):
1. Give it a full charge.
2. Remove the surface charge by either: A. turning on the headlight (ignition switch) for 5 minutes, then turning it off and waiting another 5 minutes, or B. letting the battery sit for 2-3 hours.
3. Put a voltmeter across the battery terminals.
If the battery reads under 12.80 volts (at 80°F, 12.772 at 50°; you can extrapolate for other temperatures*), either get it tested by a pro, or especially if it's more than 3 years old, just replace it.

If your battery reads 12.80 volts or a little better, your battery is less likely to be the problem, and you should disconnect, clean, and reconnect all connections within the charging circuit.  Pay special attention to ground cable connections to the engine/transmission.  Because you read 14V at the battery with the engine running, I wouldn't consider alternator (including built-in regulator) problems until you have done all of the above.

[Ricky-D]

So, it wasn't the Powerlet.  Went for a 20 mile ride and the battery dropped to 55% charge.  Got home and did a voltage check on the battery at 2000 RPM and it read 13/14 volts.  I checked all fuses, including alternator and looked for any worn/loose wires.  I am expecting a new digital tester today so I can do some of the shop manual electrical troubleshooting.  This really pisses me off, as I have been doing more riding this summer and enjoying it.  Hope to find the cure soon.  By the way, it's a standard with 37K miles.  Just wonder about the voltage regulator and alternator. 

Without trying to be critical of your communication skills-(try reading what you write)

If what you tried to convey is: at 2000 rpms the charging current at the battery is 13-1/4 volts

That is not good, the voltage is too low and your alternator is toast.

Get it rebuilt or buy a new one. 

***

[Gryphon Rider]

So, it wasn't the Powerlet.  Went for a 20 mile ride and the battery dropped to 55% charge.  Got home and did a voltage check on the battery at 2000 RPM and it read 13/14 volts.  I checked all fuses, including alternator and looked for any worn/loose wires.  I am expecting a new digital tester today so I can do some of the shop manual electrical troubleshooting.  This really pisses me off, as I have been doing more riding this summer and enjoying it.  Hope to find the cure soon.  By the way, it's a standard with 37K miles.  Just wonder about the voltage regulator and alternator. 

Without trying to be critical of your communication skills-(try reading what you write)

If what you tried to convey is: at 2000 rpms the charging current at the battery is 13-1/4 volts

That is not good, the voltage is too low and your alternator is toast.

Get it rebuilt or buy a new one. 

***

The way I understood it is he has a volt meter that doesn't give a precise reading, and the needle was at around 13 or 14 volts.  But, yes, I would consider 13.25V is too low at 2000 RPM.  The service manual is less precise, saying charging voltage at 5000 RPM should be greater than battery voltage and less than 15.5V.

[therapist]

So, it wasn't the Powerlet.  Went for a 20 mile ride and the battery dropped to 55% charge.  Got home and did a voltage check on the battery at 2000 RPM and it read 13/14 volts.  I checked all fuses, including alternator and looked for any worn/loose wires.  I am expecting a new digital tester today so I can do some of the shop manual electrical troubleshooting.  This really pisses me off, as I have been doing more riding this summer and enjoying it.  Hope to find the cure soon.  By the way, it's a standard with 37K miles.  Just wonder about the voltage regulator and alternator. 

Without trying to be critical of your communication skills-(try reading what you write)


Without trying to be critical of your reading skills, I wrote 13/14 volts, meaning it fluctuated between the two values.  I am not convinced the alternator is "toast".  I will be doing some tests from the manual to troubleshoot the situation today.

[therapist]

I did a test, where you remove the alternator fuse and test whether there is a draw (amps) when you run the engine.  It was all zeros.  SO, either I did it wrong or the alternator, is indeed, toast.  I wish I knew for sure before I get into removing/replacing it.  Is there another test I could perform?

[3W-lonerider]

iv'e seen this on many alternators with built in regulators, it's quite possible that your alternator may be charging but the diodes are fried. which means when the engine is shut off, the alternator can backfeed and kill your battery.

[Gryphon Rider]

I did a test, where you remove the alternator fuse and test whether there is a draw (amps) when you run the engine.  It was all zeros.  SO, either I did it wrong or the alternator, is indeed, toast.  I wish I knew for sure before I get into removing/replacing it.  Is there another test I could perform?

Have you cleaned all your connections, including the ground connections between the alternator and the transmission, and the battery and the transmission?  If not, do that first.  Next, assuming you have a proper multi-meter now, please put the fuse back in, then measure battery voltage with the key off, with the engine idling, then at 2000 RPM, then at 5000 RPM.

[Michvalk]

Have you actually had the battery tested for load? 

[therapist]

Ok...battery tested at Advance auto, says it's good. I had already ordered a new, cheap battery just to be sure.  I put that one in, used my new multimeter to check voltage.  Engine off-12.84  At idle-14.15  At 2000 RPM-12.24  At 5000 RPM-12.28  After that, engine off-12.75

Also purchased my own battery load tester.  It has a charging system test.  Hooked it up, 12.8 voltage, engine on at idle, 12.2, same at 1500, 2500 and 5000 RPM. 

So, what does that all mean? Am I good to go with a new battery.  I will take a test ride to see if it holds a charge now.  If not, I guess it's the alternator.  I hate being electrically challenged.   

[3W-lonerider]

with your readings at anything above an idle.
I'd say your alternator took a crap.

[Gryphon Rider]

If all your connections between the battery, alternator, and grounds are good, then your alternator is looking very suspicious.  If you want to confirm this you can pull it out and test it per the shop manual, or just replace it and save the trouble.  When mine went, the problem was a break in one of the winding wires of the rotor, so I only replaced the rotor and saved some money.

[therapist]

The saga continues.  Took a ride with a new battery, just to see for sure.  I never got a green light on my voltmeter, and when I returned, the battery was down to 70% charged.  So, next step is to pull the alternator and have it checked before I spring for a new one,

Just curious, what should those readings (above) should have been above idle?

[vanagon40]

. . . .  Just curious, what should those readings (above) should have been above idle?

Around 14 volts.  Mine shows 14 to 14.25 on my gauge.

I would think that anything less than 13.5 is a major problem.