How Important Is It to Torque Front Axle Pinch Bolts?

[doubletee]

I don't have a 6mm hex socket for my torque wrench. Is elbow torque wrench good enough here, or should I chase down one of those sockets. I don't believe they're more than $5, so cost is not a problem, but finding one on a shelf locally might be.

[houstone]

I would definitely add that to your tool box.  That particular torque makes me feel much better when I'm going through a turn!  ;-)

[Chrisj CMA]

I don't have a 6mm hex socket for my torque wrench. Is elbow torque wrench good enough here, or should I chase down one of those sockets. I don't believe they're more than $5, so cost is not a problem, but finding one on a shelf locally might be.

I have never used a torque wrench on them pinch bolts.  Good and tight, not busting a hemorrhoid tight is just fine.  In that soft aluminum more people have broken off bolts and/or stripped threads trying to achieve factory specs with a torque wrench than accidentally over tightening with a standard wrench

[Gryphon Rider]

Metric hex key sockets shouldn't be hard to find.  Here's a set for $13 at Home Depot:
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Husky-3-8-in-Drive-Hex-Bit-Socket-Set-7-Piece-H3DMM7PCHBSSR/203559457

I haven't stripped threads on my bike using shop manual torque specs, including with those pinch bolts.

[doubletee]

Thanks for the replies, everyone!   

[Grandpot]

If you are a casual mechanic and don't have the experience necessary to tighten a bolt at or close to its torque specifications, you really should get a torque wrench.

Thinking about your front wheel, are you willing to "Bet your life?"

[salty1]

Just give the wrench a good tug (16 ft-lb) until you get the right tools. FWIW 

[Chrisj CMA]

If you are a casual mechanic and don't have the experience necessary to tighten a bolt at or close to its torque specifications, you really should get a torque wrench.

Thinking about your front wheel, are you willing to "Bet your life?"

One not only needs the experience to "feel" the right tightness on a fastener one needs to know which fasteners are critical and which aren't.  These pinch bolts need to be tight, but the precise torque setting is not that important nor is it going to affect anything safety related if you happen to tighten them at say 14 or 15ftlbs or even 17 or 18.  It wont be a big deal.  16 ft lbs is not that tight so if you give it an honest pull without straining you will be close enough.

"bet your life" what do you think can happen if you are a ft lb off one way or another?

[vanagon40]

Have to agree with Chrisj CMA,  This is not a "bet your life" problem.  Tighten the bolts "tight" and forget about it.

[DenverDave]

Harbor Freight on sale $7.99

http://www.harborfreight.com/38-in-drive-metric-hex-bit-socket-set-6-pc-69546.html

Just replaced my front tire/wheel last night(Monday), could not find my 6mm hex socket, so off to HF to get a new set. I only live 2 miles from the store, so not a big deal. Torqued it to 16ftlb, then checked it with a long arm hex wrench in order to "calibrate" my elbow.      I would call it "firmly snug".  If you are using a short arm hex wrench, with less leverage I would call it "very snug"


By the way the little plastic chrome caps that cover the pinch bolts, run about $3 each at the dealer, don't ask   


Dave

[salty1]

Dave, Ace Hardware has a replacement cap for around a $1. 

[doubletee]

If you are a casual mechanic and don't have the experience necessary to tighten a bolt at or close to its torque specifications, you really should get a torque wrench.

Thinking about your front wheel, are you willing to "Bet your life?"

I have the torque wrench. It's the 6mm hex socket I don't yet have.

[Bagger John - #3785]

If you are a casual mechanic and don't have the experience necessary to tighten a bolt at or close to its torque specifications, you really should get a torque wrench.

Thinking about your front wheel, are you willing to "Bet your life?"

I have the torque wrench. It's the 6mm hex socket I don't yet have.

Sears offers an entire set (4mm through 12mm) for under $30. They come in handy.

[pancho]

Buy the tools and do it correctly,, you will feel better about the results. Unless you are a professional mechanic and do it every day, tightening fasteners by guessing is like driving without a seat belt,, you get away with it a lot, but the one time you need it, you wished you had done it correctly. I think of the threads I have seen about snapped off exhaust studs and intake bolts, not to mention the damage to threads from over torquing,, like the threads on heli coils being required for stripped out threads.

Do it right, you will never regret it,,     if you need to ask, you need the proper tool.

[Raverez]

And if by chance you do break those aluminium hex bolts, the local Ace hardware has replacements in stock.  Stock up on a set just in case.   

[Skinhead]

Ii recommend you get the hex socket set even if you don't use the torque wrench.  They are much less likely to slip or round out a socket head screw than a regular allen wrench.  You can also use an impact driver to loosen stubborn hex heads with the hex sockets.  They will also get at fasteners in hard to reach places, where allen wrenches are just a PIA.

[doubletee]

No mas!    I'll get the socket. Promise!  LOL   

[Skinhead]

No mas!    I'll get the socket. Promise!  LOL   

You axed for opinions,  You got 'em!

[doubletee]

No mas!    I'll get the socket. Promise!  LOL   

You axed for opinions,  You got 'em!

heheheh  That, I did, on both fronts. 

[raja]

 :)Being an old aircraft mechanic, torque tight is right tight. Every thing on this machine has a torque for a reason. Don't mean to be harsh, but this is engineered safety.

[Bonzo]

Use a little "Never seize" Just Saying

[Ricky-D]

An antiseize, also being a lubricant, will necessitate an adjustment to the torque value, since the torque value is predicated on dry assembly.

***

[Chrisj CMA]

An antiseize, also being a lubricant, will necessitate an adjustment to the torque value, since the torque value is predicated on dry assembly.

***

I agree RD.  When they write a shop book they take all these parts apart and put them back together on a brand new bike.  The torque settings are either set by the engineers during design or during the assembly for the shop manual.  Either way they are set using brand new parts perfectly clean threads and fasteners that have only been tightened once or twice.

If you guys that are hell bent on such scientific re-assembly want to actually achieve manufacturer specs you have to do a lot more than pull out your torque wrenches

As Ricky said simply adding anti-seize changes the equation, so does dirt, corrosion, bolt stretch and some wear on the bolts and on the threads.

Something else.  Honda factory bolts many times come with pre dried Loctite on the bolt.  The presence of such products also changes the torque specification some.

So, If you really think being so accurate tightening these fasteners is that important, than you also need to:

Buy brand new bolts EVERY time you remove one when the book says new bolts are needed upon re-assembly.

Also you should use a tap or a thread chaser to clean up all the old threads and then blow out all the particles with air and inspect and make sure they are baby fresh before you re-assemble.

Believe it or not, some mechanics actually do all this and they have factory specs.  

Again.  It is important on some fasteners...mostly inside the engine where torque on a bolt decides the life of things like bearings and such.  Things like engine cases, axles, plugs, frame connections all have varying degrees of how important the exact right torque is.

I even saw a post where someone asked what the torque setting for a zerk fitting was.  Now that's at the bottom of the list of what really needs a factory torque.  The pinch bolts at the front axle are not far away from the bottom of the list of importance.  16ftlbs is not that tight.  You can easily develop a "feel" for around that number.  Most will probably get that particular fastener closer to 20ftlbs without a torque wrench.  16-20 ftlbs is perfectly fine.  In fact many times if you buy a different maintenance book the torque settings will vary (that's why I suspect the mechanic re-assembling the bike decides on some)

Bottom line (for me) torquing some bolts is important.  Knowing what those torque settings FEEL like is more important.  Say you have to do a wheel change for a flat tire on the road and you have minimum tools(no torque wrench) Can you get that axle nut close to 81ft lbs, can you get that pumpkin bolt to 47ftlbs.  I know I can get it close enough that I wouldn't worry about it even after getting home.  

Use common sense.  These are motorcycles....not race cars or airplanes

[Robert]

If you need to ask if you need to tighten the axle bolts and you need a torque wrench to do it maybe for personal safety you should let someone else work on your bike. The torque wrench is not serious to have, but to not tighten the bolts is. The understanding of how the bike works is priceless and maybe life saving. There is also setup of the front wheel before you tighten the bolts that if you have to ask is it important then you dont have a clues as to why its important. It seems simple enough but it may mean your life if done wrong.

   As a personal note I would not use loctite anywhere on our bikes, but I would use anti seize, it sounds counter productive but the truth is sometimes threads gall and therefore you cannot get the proper tightening to hold the bolt and part. The other problem with locitite is it does have some lubricating properties so the tendency to over tighten is always present. But the kicker is once overtightened and locked in the stuff sets and just like corrosion you have to work against this stuff to get the bolt out. Ok for steel on steel but not so good with steel on aluminum. The guys at the factory dont have to disassemble a bike that has 60k plus miles on them, we do. I have yet to see any bolt back out with anti seize on it. But have seen many have a hell of a time with hex head bolts trying to get them out. Especially the pinch bolts.

         Chris I am with your frustration and your last paragraph is priceless
Bottom line (for me) torquing some bolts is important.  Knowing what those torque settings FEEL like is more important.  Say you have to do a wheel change for a flat tire on the road and you have minimum tools(no torque wrench) Can you get that axle nut close to 81ft lbs, can you get that pumpkin bolt to 47ftlbs.  I know I can get it close enough that I wouldn't worry about it even after getting home.  

Use common sense.  These are motorcycles....not race cars or airplanes

[salty1]

 ".....can you get that pumpkin bolt to 47ftlbs."  Which one are you referring to?    ???

[Chrisj CMA]

 ".....can you get that pumpkin bolt to 47ftlbs."  Which one are you referring to?    ???

any one of the four.........the ones you do right after the axle.  The only bolts you mess with on the pumpkin, the ones that attach the final drive to the swing arm flange.

[Skinhead]

I've Found My WentworTh Left Hand Torque WrenCh indispensable for critical fasteners.

[raja]

I have the Valkyrie service manual from from Honda. Torques are given for all fasteners. I don't see any references to replace with new fasteners upon servicing. Cleaning is recommended. Lubricating a fastener does not change the torque.  Good torque wrenches are available at Harbor Freight on sale often. If you can.t do the job right have a professional do it. Also, anti seize is a smart thing to use to prevent electrolysis caused by dissimilar metal contact. Many steal fasteners attach to aluminum.       

[valkyriemc]

Not to hijack but here's some interesting reading re anti-seize (which I like to use)

 http://www.ngkplugpro.ca/content/contentfiles/pdf/NGKSP-0907-1R-Anti-SeizeonSparkPlugs.pdf

[salty1]

Not to hijack but here's some interesting reading re anti-seize (which I like to use)

 http://www.ngkplugpro.ca/content/contentfiles/pdf/NGKSP-0907-1R-Anti-SeizeonSparkPlugs.pdf

Thanks for sharing,  this was news to me. I had no idea NGK plugs had a special coating.

[Robert]

Not to hijack but here's some interesting reading re anti-seize (which I like to use)

 http://www.ngkplugpro.ca/content/contentfiles/pdf/NGKSP-0907-1R-Anti-SeizeonSparkPlugs.pdf

Good article but still will do the anti seize thing when you go through enough plugs you learn to feel the gasket compress and then a little tweak and your done. I have used many NGK's its primarily what I use but when I have taken a few out there were not problems but the threads did have some rust and just a bit stuck.

Lubricating the bolts can change the torque but have found it to be of no consequence and the rotor bolts on our bikes I think they say to change with new each time.

[indybobm]

the rotor bolts on our bikes I think they say to change with new each time.

I believe the rotor bolts and the damper plate bolts are torque-to-yield and should be replaced if you want to tighten them to spec.

I did some testing on the bolts. I measured the length, torqued them to the specified torque, removed them, and checked the length again. They had all stretched a significant amount.
Do this a couple of times and when torqued to the correct value (either with a torque wrench or your 'calibrated arm'), it can snap and then you have a problem.

[Robert]

the rotor bolts on our bikes I think they say to change with new each time.

I believe the rotor bolts and the damper plate bolts are torque-to-yield and should be replaced if you want to tighten them to spec.

I did some testing on the bolts. I measured the length, torqued them to the specified torque, removed them, and checked the length again. They had all stretched a significant amount.
Do this a couple of times and when torqued to the correct value (either with a torque wrench or your 'calibrated arm'), it can snap and then you have a problem.

Interesting thanks for that bit of information. Must be a engineer 

[Ricky-D]

I don't  know what Raja is trying to say since it's is not a concise statement regarding lubrication affecting torque values.

But anyway, I understand, what he is saying is not correct.

For anyone interested, there's a lot you can Google.

Here's the first one I clicked on.

http://jthomaseng.com/the-effects-of-lubrication-on-fastener-torque

***

[valkyriemc]

the rotor bolts on our bikes I think they say to change with new each time.

I believe the rotor bolts and the damper plate bolts are torque-to-yield and should be replaced if you want to tighten them to spec.

I did some testing on the bolts. I measured the length, torqued them to the specified torque, removed them, and checked the length again. They had all stretched a significant amount.
Do this a couple of times and when torqued to the correct value (either with a torque wrench or your 'calibrated arm'), it can snap and then you have a problem.

+1 Good catch.

[raja]

 I stand corrected. It's evident that I don't know what the hell I'm talking about. Ride on.