max. rpm - idle screw adjustment - difficult ??

[FLATSIX]

Howdi !!

I received my Honda-tool for the pilotscrew : ref OEM #07908-4220201# and plan to do the pilotscrew-adjustment with hot turning motor.

So turning 1 screw in till rpm drops, then turn slowly out till higher rpm - find the highest rpm-setting for that screw and stop there.
Repeat for the 5 others.

QUESTION:  while turning is it easy to find this max.rpm-spot , do you hear good the changements in rpm as it is only 1 of 6 cylinders that is going a bit higher in rpm. I have never done it and am a little bit affraid that this is "specialist" work for people who are used to work on motors - or isn't it that bad and a non-mechanical like me can do the job?

 

[John U.]

I copied the following a few years ago. It was posted by one of our members, unfortunately I didn't manage to include the author's name. Maybe someone else knows and will provide the proper recognition.
I have never used this proceedure so I am only passing it on:
 

Pilot Screw Adjustment
Idle Drop Procedure - My audible procedure is very close. Generally closer then all pilots at the same turns out.
*Use a tachometer with graduations of 50 rpm or less that will accuratley indicate a 50 rpm change.
#1: Turn pilot screws clockwise until they seat lightly, then back them out to specifications below. This is the initial setting prior to the final pilot screw adjustment.
CAUTION: Damage to the pilot screw seat will occur if the pilot screw is tightened against the seat.
INITIAL OPENINGS
Except California Type 1.75 turns out
California Type 2 turns out
#2. Warm up the engine to operating temperature. Stop & go driving for 10 minutes is sufficient.
#3. Stop the engine and connect a tachometer according to the tachometer's directions.
#4. Start the engine and adjust the idle speed with the throttle stop screw.
IDLE SPEED: 900 +/- 100 rpm
#5Turn each pilot screw out by 1/2 turn from initial setting.
#6. If the engine speed increases by 50 rpm or more, turn each pilot screw out by successive 1/2 turn increments until engine speed does not increase any further.
#7. Adjust the idle speed with the idle speed stop screw.
#8. Turn the #1 carburetor pilot screw in until the engine speed drops by 50 rpm.
#9. Turn the #1 carburetor pilot screw out 1 turn from the position obtained in step #8.
#10. Adjust the udle speed with the throttle stop screw.
#11. Perform steps 8,9 and 10 for the #2, 3, 4, 5 and 6 carbertor pilot screws.



My Honda dealer (largest Midwest distributor of GoldWings) does their Wings & Valkyrie' this way.
Engine at operating temperature. Set Idle adj. screw to 900rpm.
Turn first pilot screw in until you hear a variance (decrease) in rpm or just lightly bottom it out (= gently) if you don't hear a change. Then turn it out slowly until you hear an rpm increase then go back & forth a smidge until your certain your about a 8th turn into the rpm increase.
Reset idle to 900 rpm if necessary each time and duplicate with the remaining 5.
Good idea to synchronize the carbs after this too.
Doing it this way avoids the inconsistencies you'll have with doing all the pilots the same number turns out. 1.75, 2, 2.5 turns is not as effective and I didn't double check, but I believe the shop manual instructs this way, but using a highly incremented rpm gage. This audible method works very well and it's better then a flat number of turns out for all carbs. It took all of 10 minutes using a 16" "D" pilot screw tool.
I doubt in warm weather you'll ever need the choke (enricher) again.
As of 60k miles, I tried everything ever posted on this board as to adjusting the pilot screws. Including ColorTune.
Nothing has had my Valk Humming as it does now.

 

[BlueValk]

FlatSix,
I adjust my idle mixture screws by ear, now (have tried other ways, this seems to work best for me).  What I do, though, is to turn the screw in 1/4 turn at a time and wait a second or two and turn it another 1/4 turn.  I keep doing this until the engine stumbles slightly.  Then I back that screw out 3/4 of a turn and go to the next cylinder.
I do this for each carb.  At first it is real tough, but as the idle gets smoother, and your ear gets better, you can easily pick up a slight miss on the cylinder being adjusted. 
If you think it is missing slightly, but not sure; 1/4 more turn in should make a real significant difference.  Then back it out 1 full turn (instead of 3/4).
As the manual says, turning the screw out will increase the RPM. but I find it much more difficult to hear precisely when the RPM's quit rising slightly, verses picking up a clear miss fire.
It is definitely harder at first (especially if they are way out) but gets much easier.  If you are unsure if the mixture is rich enough, I find it better to be too many turns out to start with than too many turns in.  My bike, at least, idles just fine when too rich (wastes fuel, though), but misses badly when too lean.  3/4 turn out from too lean seems to work just fine.  BTW, I'm at 5000 ft.  Your results may vary.
Well, hope that helps.
BlueValk

[Grandpot]

Flatsix:

If you keep doing all the things you have been doing for the past couple of months, you will be the "specialist."  No need to go look for one.

I really enjoy reading the detailed posts you write.

[FLATSIX]

So todat I did the pilot screw adjustment with the honda-tool. This tool works great on condition that you take away the valance covers.

Last week I did put all 6 pilots at 2.5 turns out - I know how the Fat Lady runs with this setting.

So today I wanted to do better by turning and adjusting the screws with hot engine and running :

1) wanted to turn them out till max. rpm obtained - then see what it gives

2) wanted to turn them out till point of rpm-raising + 1/8 turn (as posted before )

3) wanted to do the idle drop procedure , find the point where idle drops, then 1 turn out.


But t turned out differently............. and I understand why most of you simply turn each pilotscrew an egual amount of turns out, instead of doing like 1 to 3.

First I turned a pilot out till I would hear a difference in rpm or sound - result : nothing, I stopped turning because I did not want to turn the whole screw out and then searching for washer, spring etc.

Then I decided to do the idle drop : turned the screw in till it bottomed , of course then I heard my baby backfiring as I was giving air without fuel  , but once I turned it out, I really could not hear the point where it stopped backfiring, in each case I did not trust this to adjust all 6 pilots.

My son was next to me, he did not hear much neither...

So I stopped the engine, turned all 6 pilots at 2.25 out and fired her up. At 2500 - 3000 rpm heared some misfirigs.

Stopped motor and put added 1/2 turn so that they all are at 2.75 out (2.3/4 out) - took her for a ride en I think she pulls better then at the setting of 2.1/2 out .

WHAT DO YOU THINK - WOULD 2.3/4 BE TOO MUCH FUEL ???

The sparkplugs at 2.1/2 out were not bad - milk with a little coffee, not much!!

Machine revs better then at 2.1/2 and the Baby takes better off in higher gears at 2000 rpm and then turning throttle- she has more souplesse (it can also be all in my head of course) 

Now I will leave it at 2.75 and see after a while the color of the sparkplugs - or is there other method to determine if pilots are set too rich - symptoms of too rich ?

I wonder how you specialists can adjust on rpm - I really did not hear it. 

[BlueValk]

Hi FlatSix,
It sounds like you are serious about learning to adjust your bike.  So, even though this is going to possibly sound ridiculous, I'm going to stick my neck out here and try to help.
I agree with all you said on your last post.  You noticed that it was hard to tell when the rpm quit rising.  You also noticed that the cylinder did misfire when the screw was turned all the way in.  The trick is to hear just when the cylinder has a slightly lean mixture, before it is misfiring.  With other bikes, I would cup my hand behind the exhaust to hear better.  I can't reach them on this bike, so I really listen to the engine sound instead of the exhaust sound.
So, go ahead and start with all your screws out 2.75 turns.  That should be rich enough for all of them.  Even at a nice smooth idle, my bike has a bit of a "lope" or throbbing sound to it.  You want to really tune in to that slightly loping rhythm.  You can't be distracted by other noises (cars, people, etc.)  Then while adjusting one of the screws, 1/4 turn in each second or two, continue to concentrate on the rhythm of the engine.  You are not going to hear a misfire, you are going to hear a very subtle change in the rhythm.  The change should be consistent, not just one occasional miss.  If you think you have heard it but are not sure, 1/4 more turn should make it clear.  This should happen before you are within 1 turn from lightly seated.  If you are turned in more than that, you need to back the screw back out and try again.
Practice makes it easier.  You can start with a cold engine to give you more time.  The adjustment setting will change when it warms up, but the method is the same.
Hope you get it!
BlueValk
   

[Ricky-D]

Well yeah, that is what's difficult.  Trying to detect a change when only adjusting a single carburetor with the other five continuing to go their merry way.  I mean you are only dealing with 16+% of the whole and only a smaller percentage of that figure.

That is why it's been said to get a good tachometer that has a large dial and good delineation.

Did you note when you started if the screws each had a different setting from the factory?

I get a very light popping upon deceleration and tried many additions of Seafoam and Techron but hasn't helped.

I have gutted most all of the insides of the mufflers, all that I could, and I credit this for some of the popping.

I eagerly read all posts on the pilot screw adjustment and related, trying to determine the best way to address my small problem and just haven't yet decided what or where to start.

One problem is identifying which cylinder is doing the popping or if it's all cylinders doing it occasionally.

Two things I'm planning on doing in this order is:

I am going to place a seal over each pilot screw boss with the thought to eliminate any possibility of air being pulled in through the screw. Doing this to see if there is a bad 'o' ring on a pilot screw.

Then if that is not any affect I am going to remove each float bowl trying to note the gas level in each and the purpose is to remove the idle jet and clean if needed. Likewise clean the bowl too.

The popping is not loud but rather muted and I've been living with it for quite a while now.  I do notice however that using gasoline with no ethanol enrichment reduces the popping somewhere between 25% and 50%.

The main thing is trying to determine which cylinder is the culprit if there is only one cylinder or maybe two. I can't for the life of me even figure out which side is doing it. Until this is revealed I think adjusting anything other than a synchronization is going to be a waste of time and could possible make things worse and less recoverable.

***

[BlueValk]

Hi Ricky-D
A couple things:
Sealing each pilot boss is a clever idea.  Would like to hear if that makes a difference.  

A far as measuring fuel level in the bowls; you could attach clear tubing to the drain spout, open the drain and hold the tubing up to see the level (without removing the bowl).  Of course, you'll have to let the bowls re-fill a bit.  You can do 1 or all 6 at the same time and try to compare.  I got this idea from installing a dial-a-jet, since it uses lightly colored hoses that go upwards and I can see the fuel/bowl level.

As far a light popping.  I have glasspacks and have some gurgling effect on light deceleration. Hard deceleration actually sounds better.  That could be because the air-shut-off valves kick in.  I'm sure that the more open exhaust is responsible for the extra noise.  Anyway, the richer I set my pilots, the less gurgling I get.  Unfortunately to basically eliminate it requires a richer setting than I believe is correct.  So, I have a compromise with some gurgling, but no popping.

Just a thought ...
BlueValk

[Misfit]

Well yeah, that is what's difficult.  Trying to detect a change when only adjusting a single carburetor with the other five continuing to go their merry way.  I mean you are only dealing with 16+% of the whole and only a smaller percentage of that figure.

That is why it's been said to get a good tachometer that has a large dial and good delineation.

Did you note when you started if the screws each had a different setting from the factory?

I get a very light popping upon deceleration and tried many additions of Seafoam and Techron but hasn't helped.

I have gutted most all of the insides of the mufflers, all that I could, and I credit this for some of the popping.

I eagerly read all posts on the pilot screw adjustment and related, trying to determine the best way to address my small problem and just haven't yet decided what or where to start.

One problem is identifying which cylinder is doing the popping or if it's all cylinders doing it occasionally.

Two things I'm planning on doing in this order is:

I am going to place a seal over each pilot screw boss with the thought to eliminate any possibility of air being pulled in through the screw. Doing this to see if there is a bad 'o' ring on a pilot screw.

Then if that is not any affect I am going to remove each float bowl trying to note the gas level in each and the purpose is to remove the idle jet and clean if needed. Likewise clean the bowl too.

The popping is not loud but rather muted and I've been living with it for quite a while now.  I do notice however that using gasoline with no ethanol enrichment reduces the popping somewhere between 25% and 50%.

The main thing is trying to determine which cylinder is the culprit if there is only one cylinder or maybe two. I can't for the life of me even figure out which side is doing it. Until this is revealed I think adjusting anything other than a synchronization is going to be a waste of time and could possible make things worse and less recoverable.

***

I believe you are sucking air on decel. That is what is causing your popping. Check your header nuts, intake runner o rings and clamps. Also all vacume lines and caps.

[FLATSIX]

Hallo,

Factorysettings were : 2,6  -  2,25  -  2,5
                                2,5  -    ?    -  2           

MINUS 0,5 TURN - as a couple of months ago I turned all screws 1/2 turn out for some misfirings.

So : 2,1   -  1,75  -  2
       2     -    ?     -  1,5      were the original settings of the factory.

Now, I have put them all 6 at 2,75 turns out. I really don't know what to think about it.
The sound is heavier,  response in throttle is good (better then at 2,5 turns) - when driving alone I think the acceleration is better, also the pick-up in higher gear at lower rpms' is better - motor has more power from low to higher rpm's.

Could not help it, but just went for testride on highway - climbs very good till 190km/h - then goes to 200 km/h (was also not level road slightly climbing(not much) and obtained 200 - so must go harder on level surface - have 6 TW and NO windshield - so must calculate + 10 km/h for the loss with the Triggerwheel)

When fan starts then motor-rpm does not drop much, only very slightly - before it dropped more.

I really don't know if I would set all back to 2,5 or leave it at 2,75 - what is best?  And often much is playing in ones head............

What are symptomes for too rich - I must also say that exhaust smells when starting or motor runing in the (open) garage, but now I am sniffing around, before perhaps the smell was there but I did not notice cause I didn't sniff.....

Oh yes, when I blieb the throttle , rev the engine - the rpm-needle climbs faster high, needle drops faster and falls at the set idle speed (900 rpm) sometimes falls 1mm lower and corrects immediately, but this happens not all the time.

Motor also pulls better when cold - before I noticed that only after 10-15 minutes motor started to pull better, now have impression that motor pulls quicker after cold start.

Before (at 2.50 )the cold motor dropped in idel to 600 rpm when choke shut off - now at 2.75 turns motor stays higher - 800 rpm , and is quicker at the set 900 rpm when getting hotter - before (2.5 turns) the 900 rpm was obtained after 10 minutes when motor getting hot.

This is what I noticed i difference - can anyone tell me how to see if mixture O.K. at 2.75 or if I should turn in the screws till 2.5 (2.25 = more misfirings - no good!)

The procedure of turning in or out with turning motor would be the best, only I have to see a specialist first do it and then perhaps I learn, on my own I can forget it!

ALL VALKYRIE-WISDOM IS APPRECIATED AND NEEDED........THANKS 

[Hellcat]

I'm gonna type out what my Factory Pro jet kit instructions specifically says symptoms for fuel screws. Italics are mine since that sounds like your situation.

"Too lean will cause surging problems when the engine is operated at high rpm at small throttle openings! Opening the mixture screws and or increasing pilot jet size will usually cure the problem.

A rich problem gets worse as the engine heats up.

If the throttle is lightly blipped at idle and the rpm drops below the set idle speed then rises up to set idle speed, the low speed mixture screws are probably set too rich, try 1/2 turn in, to lean idle mixture.

A lean problem gets better as the engine heats up.

If the throttle is lightly blipped at edle and the rpm hangs up before dropping to set idle speed, the mixture screws are probably too lean, try 1/2 turn out to richen mixture. Be sure there are no intake leaks and the idle is set at less than 1000 rpm!"

[Ricky-D]

I believe you are sucking air on decel. That is what is causing your popping. Check your header nuts, intake runner o rings and clamps. Also all vacume lines and caps.

Thanks.  That's been done, checked and rechecked many times. The suggestion is appreciated

***

[FLATSIX]

Ricky-D, the reason that I adjusted the pilotscrew etc. is that from new my bike also has misfirings- especially when engine cold - when hot there are no misfirings anymore.

A couple of months ago I have turned out all 6 screws for just 1/2 turn, that made the misfiring better, but still there at 2500 - 3000 rpm.

I checked everything 20 times as you did, but still when raising the rpm slowly till that 2500- 3000 rpm (between) I heared the left side do misfirings....

Now I want to set each pilot again for its best mixture setting, and I cannot do it by ear - don't hear it !

I thought to do like this, take of the last piece of the chrome exhaust so that the 3 piece of cut piggies are free. >Then go to a garage where they have a CO-meter, determine which hole corresponds at which cylinder / carb / pilotscrew - then turning the pilotscrew till 3% of CO is read on the meter - the same for the others.
This way all 6 pilotscrews are set individually and I am sure that each cylinder gets the right air/fuel mixture at 1000 rpm.

What do you think? 

[Ricky-D]

I don't think you can depend upon the "piggies" being independently connected to a specific cylinder.  When I gutted my mufflers I remember noticing they are not uniformly consistent thru the whole muffler body.  The piggies at the end of the muffler are just basically cosmetic and could just as well have been 2,4, or 5 little piggies.

***

[FLATSIX]

The inside of the exhaust is divided in 3 compartiments by a metal plate in Y-form, thus guiding the exhaust coming from each cylinder through the exhaust tube to the 3 pieggies - I never opened my exhausts, but long ago there where many posts on exhaustmodifications, and I thought to have seen a picture of an opened exhaust.

So measuring the piggie should be the same as measuring that cylinder, and that is what I need to get the mixture O.K. with the CO-meter.

Am I right?

[BlueValk]

FlatSix,
I'm sure that you are correct about the exhaust.  The stock exhaust is a 6 into 6 configuration.  I've seen the drawings, too. And I gutted my exhausts a long time ago, and that is what I remember seeing inside.
I just recently acquired an old exhaust analyzer.  I kind of wish I had my stock exhaust back to try out tuning each carb that way.
This analyzer is at least 20 years old, so it's readings do not have to be accurate.  It claims at at idle I am at 13:1 mixture & 4% CO (25K on these plugs).  
BlueValk

[FLATSIX]

Bluevalk, did you take 1 reading of the CO-% / exhaust, or did you measure the CO in each piggie-hole ?

What should be the ideal CO-% to try to get when doig the adjust with a CO-meter?

What is the ideal mixture air:gas  ?

Before I make adjustments I must know what the ideal is, then I can try to get these by turning the pilots till I reach +/ these ideal data.

BTW, your sparkplug is a beauty - you can put it back in the store and sell it for a new oe !  Mine are different, no white to see in the insulator, 1 uniform color tan -like the darkest color on yours, but then mine are completely that color.

[Ricky-D]

Here is a helpful article regarding plugs.

http://www.dragstuff.com/techarticles/how-to-read-plugs.html

***

[BlueValk]

Bluevalk, did you take 1 reading of the CO-% / exhaust, or did you measure the CO in each piggie-hole ?

What should be the ideal CO-% to try to get when doig the adjust with a CO-meter?

What is the ideal mixture air:gas  ?

Before I make adjustments I must know what the ideal is, then I can try to get these by turning the pilots till I reach +/ these ideal data.

BTW, your sparkplug is a beauty - you can put it back in the store and sell it for a new oe !  Mine are different, no white to see in the insulator, 1 uniform color tan -like the darkest color on yours, but then mine are completely that color.

I've cut up my pipes and put in glasspacks, so I am getting readings from 3 cylinders at once.  Both sides were very close to each other.

Dag wrote about tuning his bike with an expensive analyzer and set his to 3%.  I imagine that he is correct.

I believe optimum air:gas mixture is 14.7:1.  Slightly leaner gives better fuel economy and richer gives more power.  You would be better off searching the web for more info than going on my numbers, though.
Let us know how it goes.
BlueValk

[petevenne]

Next question.. Who has spare stock exhaust sitting around to map the exhaust flow from header to piggie?? If they can run some air pressure down the header and see where it comes out.. Inquiring minds would like to know...

Thanks, Pete

[FLATSIX]

Yes, Bluevalk, I know that Dag has set his at 3% at 1000 rpm.

When I find someone with a good CO-meter then I plan to do it also.

This link shows a diagram with the air/fuel ratio, problem is that at idle it is not the same as when cruising - there it should be 14,7:1 - see diagram.

I am curious about the readings at the 3 piggies, when they are all 3 different then I will be able to do a good job on the bike!

I keep you informed and if anyone has good ideas or other - please let me know.

Here's that link:  http://hondanighthawks.net/carb14.htm

 

[FLATSIX]

Hey BlueValk,

I have 2 more questions before I start turning again at my Ladies nipples :

1) the 4% CO and the 13:1 air/fuel, did you obtain them by screwing in the pilots till point of idle drop, then 3/4 turn out????  Or with which method did you obtain these results?

2) do you know how many turns out each pilotscrew has now ? can you tell me these 6 data?

Many thanks, 

[BlueValk]

Yes, the 4% CO & 13:1 are from my normal settings, but I do not trust that sensor yet.  So, I wouldn't put a lot of faith into those readings.

Here are my pilot screw settings to the nearest 1/4.  These are actually adjusted to just 1/2 turn out from idle drop.  Keep in mind that I am at 5000 ft.  When I go to sea level, the idle drops and gets rough.  I add 1/2 turn to each and that fixes it up for the trip:

1. 1.75
2. 1.5
3. 2
4. 1.75
5. 1.5
6. 2

Interesting pattern.  Don't know if it means anything.  The bike would probably be just fine with all set at 1.75.
BlueValk

[FLATSIX]

Bluevalk , thanks for your info.

One question :  the numbers 1 to 6 that you gave are exactly which cylinders?

Is 1 the first cylinder that is near the radiator and 4 the same but the other side?
2 and 5 the middle
and 3 and 6 the last ?
Or is it the opposite.

I ask this to know which of them gets more air - the front or the last cylinders.

[BlueValk]

I numbered them just like they are on the bike. 1, 3 & 5 are on the brake side and 2,4 & 6 are on the clutch side.  That pretty much ruins any pattern that I thought I saw.
BlueValk

[FLATSIX]

Yes, Bluevalk, that ruins also what I had in mind - I thought that the 2 richest would be those left and right under the radiator - then the less 2 would be the ones close to the brake and the clutch.... as they get less air, but that would have be too easy , isn't it !

I am searching for a CO-meter now, not too expensive as it is only ment for the few times that I want to turn the pilots.  I am in connection with a man from the Netherlands who has a "new" as he claims digital CO-meter - I saw it on a photo and its a small device , with 2 clamps attached to put on the battery - so fed through 12V - and the man claims that it works correctly for readings above 1,5% - he asks 105 euro for it.  I wait for his tel. to inform me better - buy or not to buy, that's the question ? 

[FLATSIX]

Here's the picture of that thing !



What is your idea - a toy, or a good measuringmachine for my 6 piggies???

[Ricky-D]

Yes, Bluevalk, that ruins also what I had in mind - I thought that the 2 richest would be those left and right under the radiator - then the less 2 would be the ones close to the brake and the clutch.... as they get less air, but that would have be too easy , isn't it !

I am searching for a CO-meter now, not too expensive as it is only ment for the few times that I want to turn the pilots.  I am in connection with a man from the Netherlands who has a "new" as he claims digital CO-meter - I saw it on a photo and its a small device , with 2 clamps attached to put on the battery - so fed through 12V - and the man claims that it works correctly for readings above 1,5% - he asks 105 euro for it.  I wait for his tel. to inform me better - buy or not to buy, that's the question ? 

I think you are making an assumption that cannot be borne out with the evidence.

***

[FLATSIX]

What do you mean, Ricky-D ?

[Ricky-D]

Next question.. Who has spare stock exhaust sitting around to map the exhaust flow from header to piggie?? If they can run some air pressure down the header and see where it comes out.. Inquiring minds would like to know...

Thanks, Pete

Okay, I just finished doing that exact thing.  I have and extra set of stock exhaust pipes and grabbed my shop vacuum.

The result regardless of which piggie or which end it is. 

No difference between the pipes. 

If there is some kind of dividing baffle inside the muffler,  it is poorly separating the different cylinders.

***

[FLATSIX]

I did plan to take the CO-measuring inside the second pipe that is after the piggie, the one that some guys used to drill out for the sound.

My piggies are cut, but I left +/- 1" - the thicker end of the piggie is still there, if I look through that piggiehole I can see an internal tube - it is there that I want to make the CO-measurement, the exhaust gasses from that cylinder are blown through that particular pipe and should give other readings then the 2 remaining holes.
If that is the case, then it is possible to adjust all cylinders individually - and the beast will turn and perform better.

I must first see to catch a CO-meter somewhere to do the experiment !

[FLATSIX]

RICKY-D,

No need to cut your ice OEM-pipes into pieces, I did it for you !

These are photo's of the inside - see for yourself :







If most of the gas from that cylinder stays in its compartiment, then that should be enough to adjust the mixture of that cylinder, and that is what I want to do 

[Ricky-D]

What do you mean, Ricky-D ?

I have heard the same idea before (about different air intake volume depending upon which cylinder) and am not criticizing you but it just can not be substantiated and it goes against common sense.

The reason I say this is, the air box is a plenum and by design the plenum is to provide a common space for all the intake runners to draw from.  The intake runners see the same air drawn in from the same air filter. There is no interior device in the air box to limit or restrict flow to any intake runner.

Additionally, because of the motor design (boxer) and being a six cylinder with 120 degree spacing of the three different pairs of cylinders (1&2, 3&4, 5&6) the intake pulses are equal and evenly divided and spaced.

This goes back to my, always the same argument, about aftermarket parts manufacturers.  Basically it is: Develop a part and the search is on to find reasons it's better that stock.  I am surprised that no manufacturer has come out with a better air box after all these years.

Now, this is not an indictment of all parts manufacturers, and this is also not specifically aimed at any paranoid manufacturers who might feel I am singling them out. Just a general statement from me about the state of what I feel is a less than necessary bunch of junk that does nothing more than cause additional problems. I know this will stir up some crap.

***

[Ricky-D]

Flatsix.

Thanks for the pictures.  You wrote:

No need to cut your ice OEM-pipes into pieces, I did it for you !

These are photo's of the inside - see for yourself :

I think a moderately good result can be achieved.  Better than winging it at the least.

***

[BlueValk]

Yes, Bluevalk, that ruins also what I had in mind - I thought that the 2 richest would be those left and right under the radiator - then the less 2 would be the ones close to the brake and the clutch.... as they get less air, but that would have be too easy , isn't it !

I am searching for a CO-meter now, not too expensive as it is only ment for the few times that I want to turn the pilots.  I am in connection with a man from the Netherlands who has a "new" as he claims digital CO-meter - I saw it on a photo and its a small device , with 2 clamps attached to put on the battery - so fed through 12V - and the man claims that it works correctly for readings above 1,5% - he asks 105 euro for it.  I wait for his tel. to inform me better - buy or not to buy, that's the question ? 

Can't really answer much about that CO-meter.  It looks 10 times better than mine.  Mine is an old analog one that needed repair, so I got it for free.  The price was right, but I don't know if the meter is correct.

Another option might be to get a 4-wire o2 sensor and try using that.  2 wires go to +12v & gnd.  The other two will output about .5v (higher = richer, lower = leaner).  You could use it to at least compare the six cylinders.  Even a used one that is not junk should work okay.  Just thinking out loud ....
BlueValk

[FLATSIX]

I spoke at the phone with the man who sells the CO-meter. The make is GUNSON (exhaust analyser)

It is made in England - when you GOOGLE "GUNSON EXHAUST METER" then you find it with the manual in .pdf-format.

It should work to set each pilotscrew properly - accurate to 0.5% CO - in each case I should be able to adjust / exhaust (the 3% CO) and I hope that each piggie will give a different reading, because then I will be able to do it like the book.

Of course if it does not work I could get a reading/pipe by drilling a hole at the end of each exhaustpipe to take the reading inside the tubes - but how to seal this hole again?? I don't want to dammage my Baby...

Tomorrow evening I wil pick-up this machine and I will see what it does.

There are far more better meters on the market (LV-1 f.e.) but they cost the double - and if this Gunson-meter takes a little bit more time, does not matter, as it will only be used a couple of times.

[Ricky-D]

I spoke at the phone with the man who sells the CO-meter. The make is GUNSON (exhaust analyser)

It is made in England - when you GOOGLE "GUNSON EXHAUST METER" then you find it with the manual in .pdf-format.

It should work to set each pilotscrew properly - accurate to 0.5% CO - in each case I should be able to adjust / exhaust (the 3% CO) and I hope that each piggie will give a different reading, because then I will be able to do it like the book.

Of course if it does not work I could get a reading/pipe by drilling a hole at the end of each exhaustpipe to take the reading inside the tubes - but how to seal this hole again?? I don't want to dammage my Baby...

Tomorrow evening I wil pick-up this machine and I will see what it does.

There are far more better meters on the market (LV-1 f.e.) but they cost the double - and if this Gunson-meter takes a little bit more time, does not matter, as it will only be used a couple of times.

Depending on the size of the hole you could use a sheet metal screw that's  ground down some.

***

[woefman]

FLATSIX  

I am no expert on Valkyries

But have long automotive history.

I can offer you this ( you may already be doing this)

Adjustments can me time consuming and quite tedious.

One mistake I seen done with junior car mechanics was one adjustment forces another.

Another words on carburetor cars , I would see these kids try to adjust mixture with the idle too high, and then could not hear the idle change.

A good RPM meter helps. But remember we have 6 carbs. So ideally you would start with the 900 RPM +/- 100

then when change the Pilots one at a time you may have to re adjust the idle setting before moving onto the next carb.

I think in another post it was stated looking for a 50 rpm max increase from (900 +/-) base idle
if you manage to get this by turning your first carb pilot screw, then now your base idle is now off
and will be much harder to detect any increase when attempting to move the pilot on the next carb.

I think i also  read another fellow posted , he from stock moved pilots out a half turn, all of them.

then re adusted base idle to 900 +/- 100 , then proceeded to try get the 50 rpm increase by turning them in.

I like this way of doing it .  ( might even try an over rich pilot setting then reset base idle (900 +/- 100 ). Now based on that rich condition you can now  start turning them in slowly. I bet you will hear the rpm increase then. Remember as the first one increases to the 50 rpm to reset base idle and proceed to next carb

often if you assuming your bike is rich from start , then you get the increase in rpm by leaning it ( same with a small vacuum leak will naturally increase rpm unless it is so huge it will near die cause killing one or more cyl's. )

If your already doing this then your good to go and sorry.

Remember if you did not do this from day one it may be so far out of whack one needs to find
a common setting all the way around and re trace your steps from there.

[woefman]

I spoke at the phone with the man who sells the CO-meter. The make is GUNSON (exhaust analyser)

It is made in England - when you GOOGLE "GUNSON EXHAUST METER" then you find it with the manual in .pdf-format.

It should work to set each pilotscrew properly - accurate to 0.5% CO - in each case I should be able to adjust / exhaust (the 3% CO) and I hope that each piggie will give a different reading, because then I will be able to do it like the book.

Of course if it does not work I could get a reading/pipe by drilling a hole at the end of each exhaustpipe to take the reading inside the tubes - but how to seal this hole again?? I don't want to dammage my Baby...

Tomorrow evening I wil pick-up this machine and I will see what it does.

There are far more better meters on the market (LV-1 f.e.) but they cost the double - and if this Gunson-meter takes a little bit more time, does not matter, as it will only be used a couple of times.

FLATSIX Kudos on getting a co machine.

One tech tip

I been around emission testing for years and even hold a Arizona Inspectors License.

My tip is this , when you do not need the machine pull the hose out of the exhaust.

Often these machines have warm up time, so leaving it on is ok while your taking a break (drink of soda or smoke break etc.)

But while not making adjustments I recommend removing the probe from the exhaust fast as possible.
The filters on the machines I've used clog up fast.

[FLATSIX]

Thanks Woefman for your technical advice.

I am a newbie on the plan of adjusting carbs, and by reading this technical board I did many things on my Valk, bleeding brakes, changing timing belts, putting triggerwheel , cutting baffles (the piggies only...) , putting I/S springs in my carbs, and the last was making my vacuummachine with ATF to be able to synchronize the carbs.

This last thing was a real success because my Lady responds much better to the throttle now, and has more power in high gear at low speed.

So the next step was logical : checking and adjusting the pilotscrews in order to give my baby the right mixture for each cylinder so that she would even be better.........only this was a bridge too far for me......

I have the shop manual and I have read other methods to adjust the idel screw individually (instead of turning all 6 the same amount of turns out (2.25 or 2.5) - I really thought that the idle would drop by turning 1 pilotscrew in, but what I experienced was turning 1 in for 1/2 turn, listening to hear the machine drop in rpm : no nothing - again turning that one 1/2 turn in : no still nothing to hear till at the end I heard finally a changement, but that was evident because that pilotscrew was fully bottomed - no more fuel so that I heared.

The 6 cylinders do go happy on while turning at 1 of them, but no idle drop or changement that I nor my son can hear??

Now I have set all at 2.75 turns out - very nice sound (heavy) - baby pulls good .

I just bought a cheap exhaust gas analyser GUNSON DIGITAL GASTESTER.
Did the required calibration - put the tube in my ladies tubes : left exhaust = 5,7% CO right exhaust = 5,7%  - put it in each piggie = each the same of 5,7% ?

So I don't know it no longer - tomorrow I will turn each af the pilots 1/4 turn in - then measure with my new GUNSON-toy till I obtain 3% - then I will testride her and see and feel?????

Any suggestions (except going to a doctor for my ears) ???