4th gear issue

[bweiner10]

Hi all, twice in the last week I have been pushing down the highway in 4th gear and my tranny seems to slip or go into a false neutral.  Some quick background, my valkyrie is a 99 and has about 14k miles on it.  Also, it's about 110 degrees out today...not sure if that would have anything to do with it.  Is it likely my gear box is on its way out?  Anyone have this happen before?   Thanks!

[big poppa pump]

When was the last time you changed your oil and if so what type of oil did you use?

[Red Diamond]

If you have a Valkyrie with 14k miles on it, nothing should be going out in the mechanical and running gear system. Even using energy conserving oils shouldn't ruin your clutch in 14K miles.

[Michvalk]

Valkyries require positive, strong shifts because of the square cut gears in the transmission. Can't get lazy or soft with the shifts. And yes, there is a false neutral between 3rd and 4th that can be jumped into. I doubt the tranny is going bad

[bweiner10]

When was the last time you changed your oil and if so what type of oil did you use?

I changed my oil about 1 month ago, just under 1k miles. Used 5w-40 blue bottle shell rotella T.  Could the oil be the issue?

[R J]

Oil you are using is not a problem.

The problem is you are shifting too lazy.

Give that little shifter a jab that has some authority in it.

That is one reason a lot of Valk riders use a heel/toe shifter like the Kick Shifter.

When I got MGM in 97, I was coming off of a HD that had a lazy shifter and you could get by with it.    So I had a problem

I kept falling out of 2nd to neutral.

Talked to Chet at 1 of the InZane's and bought one of his very very 1st ones.   It still has the nuts he used for spacers.   I put it on, well actually Chet assisted and it has never been off since.   Nary a problem or a failure with it.   That is for over 200K miles.    It has had some very HARD shifts in it's tenure to date.

Now watch, it will fail the next time I ride MGM.

[Patrick]

What MV and RJ said. This is a some what common problem for new owners, used to hear it fairly often. Be a bit firmer with the shifts.

[bentwrench]

The trans in my tourer needed a very firm push on the shifter.at around 25k it finally broke in and now at 90k it shifts like butter.Syn oil really helps

[bweiner10]

The problem doesn't happen when I shift (I don't think), usually it's in the middle of pushing thru the rpm's.  I will be more conscious to kick her into 4th for sure!

[R J]

The problem doesn't happen when I shift (I don't think), usually it's in the middle of pushing thru the rpm's.  I will be more conscious to kick her into 4th for sure!

Sorry sir, but the shift does happen when you make the shift.    The tranny teeth are just setting on the edge, and when it get high enough R's, it will slide off and go to Nuetral or the ghost neutral.

BANG it in gear, ya can't hurt anything, it is a strong box.

[bweiner10]

The problem doesn't happen when I shift (I don't think), usually it's in the middle of pushing thru the rpm's.  I will be more conscious to kick her into 4th for sure!

Sorry sir, but the shift does happen when you make the shift.    The tranny teeth are just setting on the edge, and when it get high enough R's, it will slide off and go to Nuetral or the ghost neutral.

BANG it in gear, ya can't hurt anything, it is a strong box.

I learned something new today!   I did not know that.  Thanks a ton.  I will shift harder and see if that makes the difference.  Im surprised I have had and ridden the bike for about 3 yrs now and just am seeing the problem for the first time.  Might have been a little fatigue riding in the hot weather.  Thanks!!!!!!

[BonS]

Have you removed the gear shifter? It may have been installed with the splines being off a tooth or more and the lever is now hitting interference before it can fully engage the gears. My two cents.

[R J]

The problem doesn't happen when I shift (I don't think), usually it's in the middle of pushing thru the rpm's.  I will be more conscious to kick her into 4th for sure!

Sorry sir, but the shift does happen when you make the shift.    The tranny teeth are just setting on the edge, and when it get high enough R's, it will slide off and go to Nuetral or the ghost neutral.

BANG it in gear, ya can't hurt anything, it is a strong box.

I learned something new today!   I did not know that.  Thanks a ton.  I will shift harder and see if that makes the difference.  Im surprised I have had and ridden the bike for about 3 yrs now and just am seeing the problem for the first time.  Might have been a little fatigue riding in the hot weather.  Thanks!!!!!!

Keep us informed Brother.

If it keeps happening, then you might have a problem, but it is very doubtful.

[Jeff K]

All this talk about gears meshing... Valkyrie gears don't move, they rotate, but they don't slide. The gears are always meshed, the sliders lock gear sets to the shafts to "change gears".

The dogs on the sliders are the problem when shifting. If they don't drop in all the way they can pop back out. I remove every other dog, and back cut them so they naturally pull themselves in tight. Shifts much better.

[R J]

All this talk about gears meshing... Valkyrie gears don't move, they rotate, but they don't slide. The gears are always meshed, the sliders lock gear sets to the shafts to "change gears".

The dogs on the sliders are the problem when shifting. If they don't drop in all the way they can pop back out. I remove every other dog, and back cut them so they naturally pull themselves in tight. Shifts much better.

Hey Jeff, ya got any pictures of the cutting you do?

TIA.   RJ.

[Rio Wil]

If I am understanding your symptoms, namely, a bit  AFTER you make the shift to 4th gear and are hard on the throttle you get a rpm run away as tho the gears are no longer meshed OR the clutch is slipping and the rpm is jumping. If this is happening in fourth gear about 4000 rpm, it is a classic example of clutch slippage  due to the oil you are using. Same thing happened to my bike after running M1 15-40 for about 80K and had to switch to other oil. Have been running Shell 15-40 for some 70K and the clutch is fine now.  Took about 2K miles after going to Shell for the slippage to stop......the clutch has been solid since.  Whats the possibility someone has added a friction modifier to the oil  (STP or the like). At about 4K rpm the engine is developing max torque and the most likely gear for slippage is 4th if you have a clutch issue.

If this is your issue, changing to a different oil will likely fix it.

If you want to check clutch integrity, try this....running in 4th gear at 4000 rpm, apply and hold max throttle then very quickly blip (pull in and release) lever.  The rpm should jump to 6000 or so and when the lever is released the rpm will be quickly pulled back down to the 4000 range if the clutch is in good shape.  If the rpm stays up or even increases higher than 6000 then there is slippage......and due to the few miles on your bike, I would think it is the oil and  not a mechanical issue with the clutch.  This action is not really any rougher on the clutch than aggressive shifting during spirited acceleration......which many of us do often.....

[Moonshot_1]

I'll occasionally have this type of problem when I wear a different pair of shoes than I would normally wear. Like going from boots to a tennis shoe.  Or when getting a new set of shoes.

The shoe may be softer, harder, taller at the toe than the previous one and so it would seem to shift a little differently.

At times I might have a different shoe on and not realize it is putting some pressure on the shifter and it bumps it into that false neutral in the higer gears.
Preloading the shifter helps alot.

[Jeff K]

All this talk about gears meshing... Valkyrie gears don't move, they rotate, but they don't slide. The gears are always meshed, the sliders lock gear sets to the shafts to "change gears".

The dogs on the sliders are the problem when shifting. If they don't drop in all the way they can pop back out. I remove every other dog, and back cut them so they naturally pull themselves in tight. Shifts much better.

Hey Jeff, ya got any pictures of the cutting you do?

TIA.   RJ.

Looking for some now, this isn't valk but it is an example of back cut

[Jeff K]

A heel shifter makes this all pretty moot.

[Jess from VA]

Very good info on clutch vs oil.   

One other thing you can try.... if the issue is just not getting a positive enough shift.  Try pre-loading the shifter; meaning, push or lift all the slop (take up) out of the shifter with clutch lever out, then clutch and shift smoothly. 

I have on rare occasion had the same thing happen..... shift, gas up and have it slip out of gear; just not a good enough shift.

[bweiner10]

If I am understanding your symptoms, namely, a bit  AFTER you make the shift to 4th gear and are hard on the throttle you get a rpm run away as tho the gears are no longer meshed OR the clutch is slipping and the rpm is jumping.

This is exactly the problem.  I was wondering if it was a combination of the oil and extreme heat outside. 

[R J]

If I am understanding your symptoms, namely, a bit  AFTER you make the shift to 4th gear and are hard on the throttle you get a rpm run away as tho the gears are no longer meshed OR the clutch is slipping and the rpm is jumping.

This is exactly the problem.  I was wondering if it was a combination of the oil and extreme heat outside. 

Mr bweiner10, where do you live?

Maybe we can get some one to look at it also for you.

If you live close to me, I'll be glad to follow or run along side of ya to see how it is acting.

[R J]

All this talk about gears meshing... Valkyrie gears don't move, they rotate, but they don't slide. The gears are always meshed, the sliders lock gear sets to the shafts to "change gears".

The dogs on the sliders are the problem when shifting. If they don't drop in all the way they can pop back out. I remove every other dog, and back cut them so they naturally pull themselves in tight. Shifts much better.

Hey Jeff, ya got any pictures of the cutting you do?

TIA.   RJ.

Looking for some now, this isn't valk but it is an example of back cut

Thanks Jeff, I kind of remember that being told about in my auto/diesel class in high school, or maybe it was in the service.

I know I have heard about it now that I see what you are talking about.

Thanks for the picture.

[HayHauler]

So, I am assuming here that these gears are turning to the right in the picture?  If so, I can see how the angle on the dogs would force them to lock in due to the torque applied to them.  Must be an old racing trick... 

Hay 
Jimmyt

[Challenger]

My 99 I/S did the exact same thing in 4th gear when I got her with 19,000 on the clock, Happened several times.  I drained the sludge and nasty spooge out of the clutch reservoir, flushed, refilled and bled system. Hasn't happened again in 40,000 miles. I did change engine oil when I got it.  I'm running Rotella synth, Don't know what the PO was running. Which ever one fixed it, it's cured now.

[bweiner10]

If I am understanding your symptoms, namely, a bit  AFTER you make the shift to 4th gear and are hard on the throttle you get a rpm run away as tho the gears are no longer meshed OR the clutch is slipping and the rpm is jumping.

This is exactly the problem.  I was wondering if it was a combination of the oil and extreme heat outside. 

Mr bweiner10, where do you live?

Maybe we can get some one to look at it also for you.



If you live close to me, I'll be glad to follow or run along side of ya to see how it is acting.

Thanks for the offer.  I live just west of Phoenix Az. 

[R J]

If I am understanding your symptoms, namely, a bit  AFTER you make the shift to 4th gear and are hard on the throttle you get a rpm run away as tho the gears are no longer meshed OR the clutch is slipping and the rpm is jumping.

This is exactly the problem.  I was wondering if it was a combination of the oil and extreme heat outside. 

Mr bweiner10, where do you live?

Maybe we can get some one to look at it also for you.



If you live close to me, I'll be glad to follow or run along side of ya to see how it is acting.

Thanks for the offer.  I live just west of Phoenix Az. 

Too far away for me, but there are some knowlegable people in the area.    BigBF comes to mind, but he won't be home for another month from InZane..

[bweiner10]

If I am understanding your symptoms, namely, a bit  AFTER you make the shift to 4th gear and are hard on the throttle you get a rpm run away as tho the gears are no longer meshed OR the clutch is slipping and the rpm is jumping.

This is exactly the problem.  I was wondering if it was a combination of the oil and extreme heat outside. 

Mr bweiner10, where do you live?

Maybe we can get some one to look at it also for you.



If you live close to me, I'll be glad to follow or run along side of ya to see how it is acting.

Thanks for the offer.  I live just west of Phoenix Az. 

Too far away for me, but there are some knowlegable people in the area.    BigBF comes to mind, but he won't be home for another month from InZane..

.
If I continue to have the issue after I stop 'lazy' shifting, I will look into some help!  I have been thinking about trying to find some local f6'ers to meet up with anyhow!  Thanks again.