O-B-1
Member
Posts: 222
Show ain't over until the Fat Lady sings
Vancouver, WA
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« on: July 17, 2014, 01:41:48 PM » |
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The Phat Lady broke down this morning. It slipped a couple of times, not has a knock/rattle from the back and no go. I suspect the splines are gone from somewhere... Probably the shops changing the tires not greasing them as part of the reassembly process. Won't know for sure until I can get her apart this weekend. Sucks... She is my commuter vehicle. I guess the old "La Bamba" 1992 Mustang LX will have to take that role for awhile. 65 miles to work.... Ugh. Are the u-joints now available? A search had posts from 2101 saying they were not available. Nothing on pinwall.com  |
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David W. Mitchell
1999 Honda Valkyrie GL1500C
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Daniel Meyer
Member
Posts: 5493
Author. Adventurer. Electrician.
The State of confusion.
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« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2014, 01:59:46 PM » |
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Most likely the pinion cup and drive shaft. Easy repair. Not expensive parts (under $150). Takes about 1/2 hour longer than a rear tire removal/replace.
U joints are available also.
Pull the rear wheel, take off the 4 nuts that hold the rear end to the swing arm, pull out rear-end and shaft, pull the shaft out of the pinion cup and you'll see it.
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« Last Edit: July 17, 2014, 02:01:31 PM by Daniel Meyer »
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CUAgain, Daniel Meyer  |
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salty1
Member
Posts: 2359
"Flyka"
Spokane, WA or Tucson, AZ
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« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2014, 02:16:00 PM » |
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Most likely the pinion cup and drive shaft. Easy repair. Not expensive parts (under $150). Takes about 1/2 hour longer than a rear tire removal/replace.
U joints are available also.
Pull the rear wheel, take off the 4 nuts that hold the rear end to the swing arm, pull out rear-end and shaft, pull the shaft out of the pinion cup and you'll see it.
I'm guessing the pinion cup was stripped by the shaft too! Keep us posted and share pics of what you find please. |
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My rides: 1998 GL1500C, 2000 GL 1500CF,2006 GL 1800 3A   |
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old2soon
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« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2014, 05:19:39 PM » |
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I've seen the U-joints at H D L and Partzilla but the ARE a tad spendy compared to 2 years ago. I'm with Daniel-most likely the P-cup. RIDE SAFE.
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Today is the tommorow you worried about yesterday. If at first you don't succeed screw it-save it for nite check. 1964 1968 U S Navy. Two cruises off Nam.
VRCCDS0240 2012 GL1800 Gold Wing Motor Trike conversion
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Paxton
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« Reply #4 on: July 18, 2014, 01:44:23 AM » |
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"... A search had posts from 2101 saying they were not available." ========================================== Back to the future? They'll probably be out of stock in 87 years!   |
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J. Paxton Gomez
1966 First year Bronco... 302 CI V8
1975 First year Chrysler Cordoba... 360 CI V8
1978 Honda 750F / Cafe Racer
2000 GL1500CY Fast-Black Standard Solo Rider
So Cal... 91205
"Four wheels move the body; two wheels move the soul."
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The emperor has no clothes
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« Reply #5 on: July 18, 2014, 05:47:28 AM » |
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"... A search had posts from 2101 saying they were not available." ========================================== Back to the future? They'll probably be out of stock in 87 years! Michael J. Fox rides a Valkyrie ? |
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Glenn-B
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« Reply #6 on: July 18, 2014, 08:24:47 AM » |
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"... A search had posts from 2101 saying they were not available." ========================================== Back to the future? They'll probably be out of stock in 87 years! Michael J. Fox rides a Valkyrie ? Yes and he can get white walls for his  |
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O-B-1
Member
Posts: 222
Show ain't over until the Fat Lady sings
Vancouver, WA
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« Reply #7 on: July 19, 2014, 12:39:00 PM » |
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"... A search had posts from 2101 saying they were not available." ========================================== Back to the future? They'll probably be out of stock in 87 years! <CHUCKLE> Paxton, you have met a typing-challenged and sometimes dyslexic computer network tech, probably why I don't write software code... |
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David W. Mitchell
1999 Honda Valkyrie GL1500C
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O-B-1
Member
Posts: 222
Show ain't over until the Fat Lady sings
Vancouver, WA
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« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2014, 12:40:40 PM » |
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"... A search had posts from 2101 saying they were not available." ========================================== Back to the future? They'll probably be out of stock in 87 years! Michael J. Fox rides a Valkyrie ? Yes... it's called warp drive, as the Valkyrie's are nearly twice as fast as that stainless steel garbage driven machine the Doc had. |
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David W. Mitchell
1999 Honda Valkyrie GL1500C
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O-B-1
Member
Posts: 222
Show ain't over until the Fat Lady sings
Vancouver, WA
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« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2014, 12:44:46 PM » |
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Most likely the pinion cup and drive shaft. Easy repair. Not expensive parts (under $150). Takes about 1/2 hour longer than a rear tire removal/replace.
U joints are available also.
Pull the rear wheel, take off the 4 nuts that hold the rear end to the swing arm, pull out rear-end and shaft, pull the shaft out of the pinion cup and you'll see it.
Thank you, kindly. I hope that is it. Me thinks my retired boss was a bit of a showman and a hot-rodder... Probably realized the Valkyrie had more poop than his HD Road King. It has just over 70k. I have the Gates timing belts in hand that I was going to replace this weekend. I will see what the splines look like there. Again, thanks for your help. |
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David W. Mitchell
1999 Honda Valkyrie GL1500C
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O-B-1
Member
Posts: 222
Show ain't over until the Fat Lady sings
Vancouver, WA
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« Reply #10 on: July 19, 2014, 02:53:12 PM » |
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There are two part numbers listed for the propeller shaft, 40201-MZ0-000 is $96.66 and 40201-MZ0-A00 is $47.79. Anyone know what the difference may be?
My friend had his replaced in 2009 with the cheaper and just had to have it replaced again just this year.
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David W. Mitchell
1999 Honda Valkyrie GL1500C
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The emperor has no clothes
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« Reply #11 on: July 19, 2014, 04:27:06 PM » |
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There are two part numbers listed for the propeller shaft, 40201-MZ0-000 is $96.66 and 40201-MZ0-A00 is $47.79. Anyone know what the difference may be?
My friend had his replaced in 2009 with the cheaper and just had to have it replaced again just this year.
I think the 97's had the more expensive shaft. I think maybe your friend didn't lube it correctly or often enough. |
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Daniel Meyer
Member
Posts: 5493
Author. Adventurer. Electrician.
The State of confusion.
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« Reply #12 on: July 19, 2014, 04:29:06 PM » |
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No discernible difference...get the cheap one.
Pull the shaft at each tire change and clean the crud out, lightly lube, and you'll never have another problem.
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CUAgain, Daniel Meyer |
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salty1
Member
Posts: 2359
"Flyka"
Spokane, WA or Tucson, AZ
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« Reply #13 on: July 19, 2014, 06:40:52 PM » |
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My rides: 1998 GL1500C, 2000 GL 1500CF,2006 GL 1800 3A |
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O-B-1
Member
Posts: 222
Show ain't over until the Fat Lady sings
Vancouver, WA
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« Reply #14 on: July 20, 2014, 01:51:14 PM » |
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A big thank you to those who assisted me. To those whom I cam back form the future to converse with, a thank you also, for the laugh you gave me during the rough week I had.
The pinion cup was full of RUST powder... The splines in the shaft and cup were LINED up peak to peak! Made it quite obvious where the issue was. Looks like the o-ring betwixt the swing arm housing & final drive housing was ABSENT!
That being said, do I have the shop work the final drive & pinion cup replacement, or attempt it myself? I am low on tools & the manual recommends the "stealer" do so.
I think I will buy the seals and have all those replaced. New drive cushion rubbers, and nylon thrust washer. Should the U-joint be replaced at this point (72,000 miles)?
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David W. Mitchell
1999 Honda Valkyrie GL1500C
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salty1
Member
Posts: 2359
"Flyka"
Spokane, WA or Tucson, AZ
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« Reply #15 on: July 20, 2014, 02:01:03 PM » |
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Glad you got it figured out. No need to have the dealer do the work. You took apart, you can put it it back together.  Pay attention to torque values. If you need help, just give us line or two. |
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My rides: 1998 GL1500C, 2000 GL 1500CF,2006 GL 1800 3A |
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indybobm
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« Reply #16 on: July 20, 2014, 02:18:54 PM » |
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It always helps to post pictures of the pinion cup/driveshaft and final drive splines along with the drive flange. That way you can get additional opinions of how it works. Changing the pinion cup is not difficult. The hard part is keeping the pinion cup from turning while you are taking off the nut that holds the pinion cup on. Easiest way to remove and install the nut for the pinion cup is to use a air driven impact wrench capable of 100 ft lbs. Not difficult at all.
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So many roads, so little time
VRCC # 5258
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O-B-1
Member
Posts: 222
Show ain't over until the Fat Lady sings
Vancouver, WA
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« Reply #17 on: July 20, 2014, 05:45:17 PM » |
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It always helps to post pictures of the pinion cup/driveshaft and final drive splines along with the drive flange. That way you can get additional opinions of how it works. Changing the pinion cup is not difficult. The hard part is keeping the pinion cup from turning while you are taking off the nut that holds the pinion cup on. Easiest way to remove and install the nut for the pinion cup is to use a air driven impact wrench capable of 100 ft lbs. Not difficult at all.
Okay... Will post pictures once all is cleaned up good. There is a piece or two on the microfiche at RonAyers.com that seemed to have been missing on dis-assembly. One was the o-ring between the swing arm & the final drive and another in the rear wheel... |
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David W. Mitchell
1999 Honda Valkyrie GL1500C
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Chrisj CMA
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« Reply #18 on: July 20, 2014, 06:29:27 PM » |
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It always helps to post pictures of the pinion cup/driveshaft and final drive splines along with the drive flange. That way you can get additional opinions of how it works. Changing the pinion cup is not difficult. The hard part is keeping the pinion cup from turning while you are taking off the nut that holds the pinion cup on. Easiest way to remove and install the nut for the pinion cup is to use a air driven impact wrench capable of 100 ft lbs. Not difficult at all.
Okay... Will post pictures once all is cleaned up good. There is a piece or two on the microfiche at RonAyers.com that seemed to have been missing on dis-assembly. One was the o-ring between the swing arm & the final drive and another in the rear wheel... There is no O-ring to service between the swing arm and the final drive. |
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Valkpilot
Member
Posts: 2151
What does the data say?
Corinth, Texas
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« Reply #19 on: July 20, 2014, 06:56:48 PM » |
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It always helps to post pictures of the pinion cup/driveshaft and final drive splines along with the drive flange. That way you can get additional opinions of how it works. Changing the pinion cup is not difficult. The hard part is keeping the pinion cup from turning while you are taking off the nut that holds the pinion cup on. Easiest way to remove and install the nut for the pinion cup is to use a air driven impact wrench capable of 100 ft lbs. Not difficult at all.
Okay... Will post pictures once all is cleaned up good. There is a piece or two on the microfiche at RonAyers.com that seemed to have been missing on dis-assembly. One was the o-ring between the swing arm & the final drive and another in the rear wheel... There is no O-ring to service between the swing arm and the final drive. Perhaps he's referring to the pinion cup oil seal. |
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VRCC #19757 IBA #44686 1998 Black Standard 2007 Goldwing   |
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O-B-1
Member
Posts: 222
Show ain't over until the Fat Lady sings
Vancouver, WA
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« Reply #20 on: July 20, 2014, 09:15:42 PM » |
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It always helps to post pictures of the pinion cup/driveshaft and final drive splines along with the drive flange. That way you can get additional opinions of how it works. Changing the pinion cup is not difficult. The hard part is keeping the pinion cup from turning while you are taking off the nut that holds the pinion cup on. Easiest way to remove and install the nut for the pinion cup is to use a air driven impact wrench capable of 100 ft lbs. Not difficult at all.
Okay... Will post pictures once all is cleaned up good. There is a piece or two on the microfiche at RonAyers.com that seemed to have been missing on dis-assembly. One was the o-ring between the swing arm & the final drive and another in the rear wheel... There is no O-ring to service between the swing arm and the final drive.   Aaaah... the o-ring goes around the pinion retainer.... Yeap, photos of the pinion cup & associated propeller shaft end...   I think the final drive to hub splines are okay, just need cleaned and greased.   It appears they had some form of red lubricant in the pinion socket that "dried" to a rusty powder, or maybe it was never lubricated at all and it actually was rust powder... I am taking the final drive to the "stealer" with the parts. Having them replace all three seals and change the pinion cup (or joint) for me. I will do the rest of the work. It also appears the shop I had just change my tires DID NOT LUBRICATE THE DRIVE SPLINES. SO from now on I will be doing the majority of my own work. SHEESH... You just can't find good service these days. |
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« Last Edit: July 20, 2014, 09:38:49 PM by O-B-1 »
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David W. Mitchell
1999 Honda Valkyrie GL1500C
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olddog1946
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« Reply #21 on: July 20, 2014, 10:40:39 PM » |
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That pinion cup and drive shaft do indeed need to be replaced. The final drive splines actually look to be in fair shape, certainly serviceable.
Don't waste you time taking it to a dealer,,,,,,and the Honda shop down there is now an off road, KTM shop. So you may not find the parts anyway. When I changed my pinion cup on the newest valk, I just used the impact gun and a hunk of wood to hold the drive flange. Easy peazy.
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VRCC # 32473
US AIR FORCE E7, Retired 1965-1988
01 Valk Std.
02 BMW k1200LTE
65 Chevelle coupe, 1986 Mazda RX-7 with 350/5spd, 1983 Mazda RX-7 with FOMOCO 302/AOD project, 95 Mustang GT Convertible 5.0, 5 spd
Moses Lake, Wa. 509-760-6382 if you need help
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Chrisj CMA
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« Reply #22 on: July 21, 2014, 10:18:12 AM » |
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I still don't think you will be able to change an 0-ring there at the pinion cup. I have removed a pinion cup...never installed one, but there was no 0-ring there that I can remember.
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Skinhead
Member
Posts: 8727
J. A. B. O. A.
Troy, MI
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« Reply #23 on: July 21, 2014, 10:46:34 AM » |
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I'm not seeing any holes in the bottom of that pinion cup (unles one is at 12:00 and one is at 6:00 and hidden by the alledged lubricant). Could that be a misbuit pinion cup? Once you have it off, please post if the holes are present.
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 Troy, MI |
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olddog1946
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« Reply #24 on: July 21, 2014, 04:51:40 PM » |
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I'm not seeing any holes in the bottom of that pinion cup (unles one is at 12:00 and one is at 6:00 and hidden by the alledged lubricant). Could that be a misbuit pinion cup? Once you have it off, please post if the holes are present.
I think the holes are at 4 and 10 o'clock..doesn't really matter since he can't use that one anyway. |
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VRCC # 32473
US AIR FORCE E7, Retired 1965-1988
01 Valk Std.
02 BMW k1200LTE
65 Chevelle coupe, 1986 Mazda RX-7 with 350/5spd, 1983 Mazda RX-7 with FOMOCO 302/AOD project, 95 Mustang GT Convertible 5.0, 5 spd
Moses Lake, Wa. 509-760-6382 if you need help
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Skinhead
Member
Posts: 8727
J. A. B. O. A.
Troy, MI
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« Reply #25 on: July 21, 2014, 04:53:15 PM » |
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I'm not seeing any holes in the bottom of that pinion cup (unles one is at 12:00 and one is at 6:00 and hidden by the alledged lubricant). Could that be a misbuit pinion cup? Once you have it off, please post if the holes are present.
I think the holes are at 4 and 10 o'clock..doesn't really matter since he can't use that one anyway. Agreed, I just didn't see them in the photo, it would explain the failure is all. |
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Troy, MI |
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Valkpilot
Member
Posts: 2151
What does the data say?
Corinth, Texas
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« Reply #26 on: July 21, 2014, 07:42:44 PM » |
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I still don't think you will be able to change an 0-ring there at the pinion cup. I have removed a pinion cup...never installed one, but there was no 0-ring there that I can remember.
I agree with Chris. That O-ring is part of the interior assembly and can't be accessed just by pulling the pinion cup. |
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VRCC #19757 IBA #44686 1998 Black Standard 2007 Goldwing |
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O-B-1
Member
Posts: 222
Show ain't over until the Fat Lady sings
Vancouver, WA
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« Reply #27 on: July 21, 2014, 10:14:26 PM » |
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The O-Ring is actually around the outside of the pinion retainer, found that in the factory manual.
Old Dog... How ya been buddy?
I tried using my manual impact driver to loosen the nut with the failed cup in my vise, and a 18"x1/2" drive breaker bar with 6-point socket... No such luck, tighter than a big bank! I think the Hermiston dealership is the off road one. I was going to cage the "punkin" to USA Honda in Walla Walla... They do a lot of "Wing" service there and have for years. I was thinking I would have the seals replaced while I have it apart, since they are most likely 70,000 miles old.
The "lube" you see in the picture was after rinsing with silicone spray in hopes of getting the nut loose.
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David W. Mitchell
1999 Honda Valkyrie GL1500C
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KG
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« Reply #28 on: July 22, 2014, 06:00:33 AM » |
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just take it to the nearest auto garage or tire shop and they can zip it off and on for you. Most Napa and other auto parts stores have an electric impact they use for alternator pulleys and if not busy may do it for free.
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What we do all have is a limited number of days to devote to whatever we love in this life. Not all the same number of days but all have limited days....Willow
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O-B-1
Member
Posts: 222
Show ain't over until the Fat Lady sings
Vancouver, WA
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« Reply #29 on: August 06, 2014, 08:43:10 PM » |
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The final drive cushions did not come with the metal inserts. Should I order new inserts? Maybe check the old ones to see if the holes have been pounded out of round? I cut one of the old cush rubbers and the metal inserts in those will push into the new rubbers. But they are aluminum. I am asking because they holes in the aluminum inserts do not appear to have out of round holes, but I do not have an inside micrometer to check them, either. Maybe I will just reuse them and order new ones for the next tire change. So, insert the metal inserts, pucush rubbers in the freezer. Set wheel out in the sun in teh morning (it has been above 100 all week) and then drop them in about 2-3PM... Got it! |
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David W. Mitchell
1999 Honda Valkyrie GL1500C
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O-B-1
Member
Posts: 222
Show ain't over until the Fat Lady sings
Vancouver, WA
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« Reply #30 on: August 23, 2014, 05:41:49 PM » |
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ON THE ROAD AGAIN! The Phat Gurl, she sings! |
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David W. Mitchell
1999 Honda Valkyrie GL1500C
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