Gondul
Member
Posts: 260
VRCC #408
Central Florida
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« on: August 10, 2009, 05:46:52 PM » |
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Bike started fine last saturday...this past weekend I added an additional horn. Turn the key, I get lights...press starter, nothing. No clicks, no whirs, nothing.  Take apart and re-clean starter button and cut-off switch...still nothing... Check battery...hanging around 12v...charge for an hour...back up to 13v  Turn the key, I get lights...press starter, nothing. No clicks, no whirs, nothing. Check all the fuses and none are blown...start messing with connections...blast'em with a little shot of carb cleaner to get the gunk off. As I check each connection I go back to step one....Turn the key, I get lights...press starter, nothing. No clicks, no whirs, nothing. I got to the connections behind the alternator...same steps as above, but this time I get a quick chug out of the engine and then the lights go out.... Now nothing, I dont' even get the lights to come on...where do I check next? thanks |
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As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion....
John Adams - 1797
Because Thou lovest the Burning-ground,
I have made a Burning-ground of my heart
That Thou, Dark One, hunter of the Burning-ground,
Mayest dance Thy eternal dance.
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Joe Hummer
Member
Posts: 1645
VRCC #25677 VRCC Missouri State Representative
Arnold, MO
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« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2009, 05:51:05 PM » |
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I would suggest hooking another battery to the bike (in the form of jumper cables from your car battery...car off) and give it a try. You could have a dead cell (or two) in your battery that would cause the battery to read right but when a load is put on it...nothing.
Since you have a meter, you can check the battery with a meter. See what the voltage does when you hit the starter button.
Joe
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1999 Valkyrie Interstate
You pay for the whole bike, why not use it Jerry Motorman Palladino
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eric in md
Member
Posts: 2495
ride hard now we all can rest when were gone !!!
in the mountains .......cumberland md
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« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2009, 05:55:43 PM » |
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how about the tips over switch behind the front cover? just a thought please keep us informed thanks .
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Michvalk
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« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2009, 05:59:31 PM » |
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Check also battery cable connections (both ends) The ground cable has a tendency to corrode where it connects to the engine block. Clean everything real well. Look inside the electrical boots under the sidecover for bad connections. Then if you don't find anything it's time to do the starter switch cleanup. You can find how to do this by searching the board.
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Madmike
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« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2009, 06:15:36 PM » |
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Sorry I don't have a schematic handy but - red engine stop switch in run position?? (I know on some bikes if this circuit is open you can't crank). You have power to the headlight switch so your 30 Amp fuse should be good. You could check the start relay holder and make sure it is clean etc. At the same time I would see if there is power to the start relay when you press the start button. If you check the relay holder with a grounded continuity tester there should be one hot connection with the key on and relay pulled, both sides of the 30 amp fuse should have power and then when you hit the start switch it should energise one other terminal. You can check the relay itself by figuring out which is the control circuit and then grounding one side and jump power to the other terminal of the relay - when you do this you should be able to measure low resistance through the load terminals ad the relay should click.
The way it sounds is that the start button is functioning correctly by opening the circuits to everything else when it is pushed but at the same time it should close the control circuit for the start relay and this doesn't seem to be happening or the circuit is open somewhere - if this is the case it is most likely either the start switch or relay holder that is the problem.
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Robert
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« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2009, 06:19:48 PM » |
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If you hit the starter and don't see the headlight go out then you still have a problem with the starter switch more than likely. If the headlights do go out then look to the cut off switch and I would jump the starter just to make sure that the starter is ok. I do like the suggestion of the level switch too. If jumping the starter doesn't work then you need to start with the starter and the battery.
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“Some people see things that are and ask, Why? Some people dream of things that never were and ask, Why not? Some people have to go to work and don’t have time for all that.”
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John Schmidt
Member
Posts: 15223
a/k/a Stuffy. '99 I/S Valk Roadsmith Trike
De Pere, WI (Green Bay)
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« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2009, 06:46:25 PM » |
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If not and it's suddenly dead, you first need to go back to the wiring you installed and see if you might have shorted something or hooked something up incorrectly. If it is the start switch, check out the link and follow the directions for the Start Switch Safeguard. It's well worth the small investment in time and money, and easy to mount in the headlight bucket. http://www.rattlebars.com/mtz/starter.html |
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R J
Member
Posts: 13380
DS-0009 ...... # 173
Des Moines, IA
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« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2009, 08:04:01 PM » |
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If not and it's suddenly dead, you first need to go back to the wiring you installed and see if you might have shorted something or hooked something up incorrectly. If it is the start switch, check out the link and follow the directions for the Start Switch Safeguard. It's well worth the small investment in time and money, and easy to mount in the headlight bucket. http://www.rattlebars.com/mtz/starter.htmlJohn hit it on the button. Check out the last electrical messing around you did. If you were under the right side cover, in or near that rubber boot. check in it to make sure you didn't unplug something, Always, look 1st where you have been screwing around in the wiring, or last modification for your problem.. Other wise you could be chasing your butt till next winter, or ya just happen on something loose or disconnected. |
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44 Harley ServiCar   |
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Rocketman
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« Reply #8 on: August 11, 2009, 04:56:55 AM » |
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Do the lights go out when you hit the starter? Is there any change at all?
I would check any of the safety interlock switches: Clutch, sidestand, tipover, engine cutoff. The clutch switch can be bypassed by shifting into nuetral before starting. Does that do any good?
If I recall correctly, if you hit the magic button with an interlock not engaged, the lights go out, but nothing else happens. If the lights don't go out, I'd say your starter switch is bad. If they go out and stay out until you cycle the ignition key, I'd say it's a bad ground.
That having been said, a failure immediately after a modification almost always means a problem with the modification. There's a quick-connect for the sidestand switch buried just in front of the battery. Hard to get to, but not impossible to disconnect just by tugging on things in there (I've done it, without ever actually touching the connector). If you're indicating a bad interlock, I'd look there. Maybe someone will correct me, as I'm just guessing, but if you were to disconnect the wire at the sidestand, I would expect you to find 12V on one of the contacts when the key is on. If you don't, look for that connector in front of the battery.
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« Last Edit: August 11, 2009, 05:03:28 AM by Rocketman »
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Gondul
Member
Posts: 260
VRCC #408
Central Florida
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« Reply #9 on: August 11, 2009, 07:04:54 AM » |
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Thanks for the input... I will go back and disconnect the fuse panel I installed; I really don't see how intalling the additional horn changed anything as all I did was disconnect the old horn from the relay and install the new one...but truth is stranger than fiction.
JoeValkIS
I would suggest hooking another battery to the bike (in the form of jumper cables from your car battery...car off) and give it a try.
Tried that as well....nothing...not clicks no whirs, nothing.
See what the voltage does when you hit the starter button.
I'll let you know what it reads with no load it was 12.95v IIRC...
eric in md
how about the tips over switch behind the front cover?
I did remove the front cover to better access the wiring...I will check that as well.
Michvalk
Check also battery cable connections (both ends)...Then if you don't find anything it's time to do the starter switch cleanup.
Thanks..that was one of the first things I checked and cleaned...
Madmike
At the same time I would see if there is power to the start relay when you press the start button.
One More thing to try...thanks
Robert
I would jump the starter just to make sure that the starter is ok
What's the best way to jump the starter? Never done that before...
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As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion....
John Adams - 1797
Because Thou lovest the Burning-ground,
I have made a Burning-ground of my heart
That Thou, Dark One, hunter of the Burning-ground,
Mayest dance Thy eternal dance.
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Ferris Leets
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« Reply #10 on: August 11, 2009, 07:42:14 AM » |
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Usually when something like this happens after a mod, no matter how small or seemigly unrelated, the best place to start troubleshooting is whatever you changed/added/touched/even looked at and thought about touching.
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Valker
Member
Posts: 2999
Wahoo!!!!
Texas Panhandle
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« Reply #11 on: August 11, 2009, 08:43:30 AM » |
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MANY folks have reinstalled the tipover switch upside down....
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I ride a motorcycle because nothing transports me as quickly from where I am to who I am.
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Mr.BubblesVRCCDS0008
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« Reply #12 on: August 11, 2009, 08:56:29 AM » |
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Not trying to be a smart### but check the little shutdown switch on the handlebars. It is easy to bump to the off position and it kills everything.
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Rocketman
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« Reply #13 on: August 11, 2009, 12:53:38 PM » |
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MANY folks have reinstalled the tipover switch upside down....
Guilty. I looked at it, and assumed that the triangle would point up, since that would be logical. Nope. No worky when up. |
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Gondul
Member
Posts: 260
VRCC #408
Central Florida
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« Reply #14 on: August 12, 2009, 05:19:42 AM » |
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I disconnected everthing yesterday and am slowing putting things back together...
The battery reads 12.95v at rest, when I hit the start button it drops to 0.5v...if it wasn't dead/dying before it is now. So now, I don't know if indeed it was the battery or I jarred something loose while adding the new horn.
I should be done putting everying back on tonight.
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As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion....
John Adams - 1797
Because Thou lovest the Burning-ground,
I have made a Burning-ground of my heart
That Thou, Dark One, hunter of the Burning-ground,
Mayest dance Thy eternal dance.
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John Schmidt
Member
Posts: 15223
a/k/a Stuffy. '99 I/S Valk Roadsmith Trike
De Pere, WI (Green Bay)
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« Reply #15 on: August 12, 2009, 06:59:03 AM » |
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I doubt very much a battery that reads 12.95vdc at rest will drop to 0.5vdc without a direct short somewhere. I doubt the battery would read that high voltage at rest if it was is such bad shape that it dropped that much under normal conditions; i.e., no shorts existing. What does the battery read after you try starting it, after it drops to the 0.5vdc reading? If it goes back up to some degree, I still think you created a short and surprised it didn't blow the battery up. If it doesn't go back up some, you most likely have ruined the battery.
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Gondul
Member
Posts: 260
VRCC #408
Central Florida
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« Reply #16 on: August 12, 2009, 07:53:59 AM » |
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I doubt very much a battery that reads 12.95vdc at rest will drop to 0.5vdc without a direct short somewhere.
Just relaying what the multimeter is reading (electricity is not my schtick)...with the battery just sitting there it is close to 13...when I press the start button, it drops to .5 If it goes back up to some degree, I still think you created a short and surprised it didn't blow the battery up. Eh, maybe fumbling around with disconnecting the old horn and reconnecting the new horn knocked something loose...what can I say...the gods look after fools, idiots, and elected officials... If I did accidentally create a short, I have disconnected everthing and am slowly cleaning and reconnecting everything. |
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As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion....
John Adams - 1797
Because Thou lovest the Burning-ground,
I have made a Burning-ground of my heart
That Thou, Dark One, hunter of the Burning-ground,
Mayest dance Thy eternal dance.
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Ricky-D
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« Reply #17 on: August 12, 2009, 10:39:39 AM » |
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It would seem to me that any battery that displays a 13v + or - and then under use, drops to less than a volt or two is worn out.
If the battery were good and the problem were laid upon a short circuit, the result would be a barbecue on wheels. Hopefully some fuses would blow before that happens.
Batteries do wear out without going bad. They can show good voltage but have no staying power left. Comes from the plates losing mass.
Using a volt meter is not adequate to measuring battery strength. An amp meter (strain gauge) is the preferred method.
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2000_Valkyrie_Interstate
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John Schmidt
Member
Posts: 15223
a/k/a Stuffy. '99 I/S Valk Roadsmith Trike
De Pere, WI (Green Bay)
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« Reply #18 on: August 12, 2009, 08:19:16 PM » |
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Batteries do wear out without going bad. They can show good voltage but have no staying power left. Comes from the plates losing mass.
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Boy, can I relate to that at my age.  |
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Chrisj CMA
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« Reply #19 on: August 15, 2009, 05:10:19 AM » |
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Anytime you mess with the connections on the alternator you should disconnect the battery. (BTW I agree with the dead battery theory first) but if you got some reaction from messing with the alternator cables you may have blown the 55A fusable link...look behind the right side cover in a rectangular plastic box marked fuse on the lid, there is a spare tucked under the lid
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