Darkside on an 1800?

[F6Dave]

Here's an interesting video of a car tire on a GL1800.  It was linked on http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/

Going to the Darkside with a KUMHO RF on a GL1800 Goldwing	powered by Aeva

[salty1]

Good video, thanks for sharing. I wonder which make and model that tire was?

[HayHauler]

That is the tire I chose for my '07 Wing.  It is a Kuhmo Ecsta KU31, or SPT XRP.  It is a run flat tire and I run it at about 35 lbs.  Here it is at Tirerack.com

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Kumho&tireModel=Ecsta+SPT+XRP

Hay 
Jimmyt

[F6Dave]

The article on TTAC (http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2014/08/fixed-abode-dark-side-unintended-consequences/) is a good read.  They make the point that due the huge market (and corresponding huge $$$) car tires have advanced light years over the last few decades.  They claim the advance has been so great that the car tire is now significantly superior.  I'm still on the fence on this but it has me thinking about giving DS a try.

[HayHauler]

The Darkside isn't for everyone, but it sure works for me. 
To each his own. 

Hay
Jimmyt

[Bagger]

I spent some time on the Darkside site reading what was posted.  Yes, I asked some questions that were answered, too.

Here's my 2 cents ... and, this is pretty much my own opinion.

Seems like most of the posters on the Darkside are Wing riders.  (I have a 2001 Wing, so I'm in that group ... sort of)  From what I can read in the several pages of the site, the most positive aspect of going cage tire is cost.

2nd'ly, some Wing and heavy cruiser riders are concerned with rear motorcycle tire "blow outs".  Yeah, that'd get my attention pretty quickly.  But, I wonder how many times this has happened over the last 15 years and millions of miles of Wing riding?  And, what led up to this? 

I know friends of mine who want to report how many miles they get out of a set of sneakers.  I change mine out before 10,000 miles mostly.  The center starts to look a bit thin and I want excellent traction in all conditions.  So, I don't run mine to 'bald' for sure.

Temperature may play some role as well.  Low tire pressures will lead to higher sneaker temps and perhaps lead to 'issues'. 

One answer to my question was that the CT has better load carrying capability compared to a MT.  Carrying a large passenger/rider ... or, a trailer and loaded bags.  I don't do any of this.  I ride sans passenger and trailer.  Maybe a bit harder than I should, tho.   

My concern about using a CT on a motorcycle has always been the tread profile.  Yeah, I've seen the videos with the CT at 37ish psi riding up on it's edges.  And, read that more input is necessary in counter steering with a CT.  I've read that a CT stops faster, is quieter, lasts longer, is less expensive, and works in the rain better than a MT.

I'm not sure these are all true. 

I know I run a Valkyrie (old version) 70 aspect tire on my Wing.  Which gives me more cornering clearance and corrects the speedo error.  Avon Cobras are what I run on my Wing and I like them in all conditions.  Other's disagree.

Cost is not an issue for me, so I don't care about that or 20,000 miles of use.  For me ... and I know others may differ, and that's kewl ... I'll stick to MC specific tires on my bikes.

[VALKYRIE1800]

this is a recipe for disaster. i am waiting for the person that sells and/or mounts a car tire on a wing, and then gets sued because of an accident. it will happen ,people and there worthless lawyers would be all over this. it also still blows my mind that these cheapskates are riding around on a 30k goldwing and worry about spending 300.00 for a tire??? i guess i don't get it. i agree, money is not a big deal for me, if you want to play, you gotta pay..................

[hubcapsc]

it also still blows my mind that these cheapskates are riding around on a 30k goldwing and worry about spending 300.00 for a tire???

It blows my mind how many people don't understand The Dark Side... 

-Mike

[JimmyG]

There is great power in the Darkside Luke    

I'm on my second CT on the Valk. This time I went with a Mastercraft brand.  I think HTX if I remember right. Great handling, rain or shine, cold or hot.  The Valk doesen't seem to notice it's a car tire. I never really said anything so maybe she don't know

[eric in md]

i wont ride to the mail box with a m/c tar i have seen way to many come apart, their thin side walls,  run flat all the way baby . remember its your bike run what you want..

[Fla. Jim]

I spent some time on the Darkside site reading what was posted.  Yes, I asked some questions that were answered, too.

Here's my 2 cents ... and, this is pretty much my own opinion.

Seems like most of the posters on the Darkside are Wing riders.  (I have a 2001 Wing, so I'm in that group ... sort of)  From what I can read in the several pages of the site, the most positive aspect of going cage tire is cost.

2nd'ly, some Wing and heavy cruiser riders are concerned with rear motorcycle tire "blow outs".  Yeah, that'd get my attention pretty quickly.  But, I wonder how many times this has happened over the last 15 years and millions of miles of Wing riding?  And, what led up to this? 

I know friends of mine who want to report how many miles they get out of a set of sneakers.  I change mine out before 10,000 miles mostly.  The center starts to look a bit thin and I want excellent traction in all conditions.  So, I don't run mine to 'bald' for sure.

Temperature may play some role as well.  Low tire pressures will lead to higher sneaker temps and perhaps lead to 'issues'. 

One answer to my question was that the CT has better load carrying capability compared to a MT.  Carrying a large passenger/rider ... or, a trailer and loaded bags.  I don't do any of this.  I ride sans passenger and trailer.  Maybe a bit harder than I should, tho.   

My concern about using a CT on a motorcycle has always been the tread profile.  Yeah, I've seen the videos with the CT at 37ish psi riding up on it's edges.  And, read that more input is necessary in counter steering with a CT.  I've read that a CT stops faster, is quieter, lasts longer, is less expensive, and works in the rain better than a MT.

I'm not sure these are all true. 

I know I run a Valkyrie (old version) 70 aspect tire on my Wing.  Which gives me more cornering clearance and corrects the speedo error.  Avon Cobras are what I run on my Wing and I like them in all conditions.  Other's disagree.

Cost is not an issue for me, so I don't care about that or 20,000 miles of use.  For me ... and I know others may differ, and that's kewl ... I'll stick to MC specific tires on my bikes.

"My concern about using a CT on a motorcycle has always been the tread profile.  Yeah, I've seen the videos with the CT at 37ish psi riding up on it's edges.  And, read that more input is necessary in counter steering with a CT.  I've read that a CT stops faster, is quieter, lasts longer, is less expensive, and works in the rain better than a MT.

I'm not sure these are all true. "

How could you ever be sure?  If you have not tried it?  Personally, I prefer 26 lbs for a bigger cornering footprint and softer ride. I do know for a fact if you grab a hand full of front brake and hit the back brake hard in a panic stop your valk will try to get sideways on you with mc tires. Every time. Done it a couple times with the blue hairs down here pulling out from side streets. In same scenario with a car tire you will stop much quicker and safer in a controllable straight line. Also know this as a fact, due to the same type drivers. Also it does rain a lot in s Fla. Have over 30k on the current car tire (still has a measured 5/32nds of rubber, as measured) and it "is" much safer in the rain due to my expieriences since 98 riding a Valk. I also can afford any tire I want. Just want the safest tire I can get.

[Bagger]

"My concern about using a CT on a motorcycle has always been the tread profile.  Yeah, I've seen the videos with the CT at 37ish psi riding up on it's edges.  And, read that more input is necessary in counter steering with a CT.  I've read that a CT stops faster, is quieter, lasts longer, is less expensive, and works in the rain better than a MT.

I'm not sure these are all true. "

How could you ever be sure?  If you have not tried it?  Personally, I prefer 26 lbs for a bigger cornering footprint and softer ride. I do know for a fact if you grab a hand full of front brake and hit the back brake hard in a panic stop your valk will try to get sideways on you with mc tires. Every time. Done it a couple times with the blue hairs down here pulling out from side streets. In same scenario with a car tire you will stop much quicker and safer in a controllable straight line. Also know this as a fact, due to the same type drivers. Also it does rain a lot in s Fla. Have over 30k on the current car tire (still has a measured 5/32nds of rubber, as measured) and it "is" much safer in the rain due to my expieriences since 98 riding a Valk. I also can afford any tire I want. Just want the safest tire I can get.

[/quote]

I'm not sure my bike will go sideways in a hurry, Jim.  I have the ABS version of the New Valkyrie.  5/32 is pretty smallish IMO, too.  If you can afford any tire, I'd get a new CT.  And, as I wrote before, I'm not sure a CT is the safest tire one can have on a motorcycle.  Literally millions of miles have been riden on tires designed for motorcycles without incident.

Folks are free to ride which ever motorcycle they please, and boot them with whatever type of tire they like as well.  Makes little difference to me.

[Warlock]

date=1409571890]
this is a recipe for disaster. i am waiting for the person that sells and/or mounts a car tire on a wing, and then gets sued because of an accident. it will happen ,people and there worthless lawyers would be all over this. it also still blows my mind that these cheapskates are riding around on a 30k goldwing and worry about spending 300.00 for a tire??? i guess i don't get it. i agree, money is not a big deal for me, if you want to play, you gotta pay..................
[/quote]

[VALKYRIE1800]

i have never, nor would i try it. i watched a buddy of mine attemp to ride the Dragon on his Valk. that  150.00 car tire cost him 5k. i would like to see a goldwing tire that came apart.  what where the conditions, and how was the bike loaded, what was it hauling? i have see a couple fail, but the couple were both BIGGER people, with the bike way overloaded, and pulling a trailer........go figure. i am just curious with one of the most safety minded companies in the world, why does honda fix this tire issue if it actually exists? why don't all GL chassis come with a CT on the rear? and if there is this "tire issue", how many law suits because of it. sorry, this rider with 30+ yrs/and hundreds of thousands of miles on two wheels is not buying it.

[Fla. Jim]

"My concern about using a CT on a motorcycle has always been the tread profile.  Yeah, I've seen the videos with the CT at 37ish psi riding up on it's edges.  And, read that more input is necessary in counter steering with a CT.  I've read that a CT stops faster, is quieter, lasts longer, is less expensive, and works in the rain better than a MT.

I'm not sure these are all true. "

How could you ever be sure?  If you have not tried it?  Personally, I prefer 26 lbs for a bigger cornering footprint and softer ride. I do know for a fact if you grab a hand full of front brake and hit the back brake hard in a panic stop your valk will try to get sideways on you with mc tires. Every time. Done it a couple times with the blue hairs down here pulling out from side streets. In same scenario with a car tire you will stop much quicker and safer in a controllable straight line. Also know this as a fact, due to the same type drivers. Also it does rain a lot in s Fla. Have over 30k on the current car tire (still has a measured 5/32nds of rubber, as measured) and it "is" much safer in the rain due to my expieriences since 98 riding a Valk. I also can afford any tire I want. Just want the safest tire I can get.

I'm not sure my bike will go sideways in a hurry, Jim.  I have the ABS version of the New Valkyrie.  5/32 is pretty smallish IMO, too.  If you can afford any tire, I'd get a new CT.  And, as I wrote before, I'm not sure a CT is the safest tire one can have on a motorcycle.  Literally millions of miles have been riden on tires designed for motorcycles without incident.

Folks are free to ride which ever motorcycle they please, and boot them with whatever type of tire they like as well.  Makes little difference to me.


[/quote]

So in your opinion 5/32nds is pretty smallish in your opinion? I'm getting right @ 6k miles per 32nd. And you getting a little over 1k per 32nd. So that mean's when your M/C rear gets to 5/32nds you will be getting a new one? So figuring you might get 10k on a rear if you wore it all the way out and considering you are starting at 9/32nds . You would be changing tires at 4k miles of use or so? And I believe, not sure but most likely since almost all front tires come with 5/32nds you must be constantly changing that one out. Just to stay safe I  suppose.
My rear @ 30k miles you think is smallish tread.

[imrubicon]

..

[/quote]

What he said 

[Gavin_Sons]

i have never, nor would i try it. i watched a buddy of mine attemp to ride the Dragon on his Valk. that  150.00 car tire cost him 5k. i would like to see a goldwing tire that came apart.  what where the conditions, and how was the bike loaded, what was it hauling? i have see a couple fail, but the couple were both BIGGER people, with the bike way overloaded, and pulling a trailer........go figure. i am just curious with one of the most safety minded companies in the world, why does honda fix this tire issue if it actually exists? why don't all GL chassis come with a CT on the rear? and if there is this "tire issue", how many law suits because of it. sorry, this rider with 30+ yrs/and hundreds of thousands of miles on two wheels is not buying it.

Was it the fault of the car tire or operator error? Easy to blame it on something bedsides yourself. I see a bunch of guys that ride out of their experience level and end up on the ground.

[Warlock]

Been running a Goodyear Assurance 175/60/16 on the back of my 12 Goldwing. Running it at 40PSI. Can't even tell it's a car tire on back. Run the curves just as good as the m/c tire. Only thing I noticed if I run less than 40 psi the rear end feels a little loose in curves. So far I have no complaints and will see what kinda mileage I will get out of it. Of course price is not the issue.
David

[VALKYRIE1800]

i have never, nor would i try it. i watched a buddy of mine attemp to ride the Dragon on his Valk. that  150.00 car tire cost him 5k. i would like to see a goldwing tire that came apart.  what where the conditions, and how was the bike loaded, what was it hauling? i have see a couple fail, but the couple were both BIGGER people, with the bike way overloaded, and pulling a trailer........go figure. i am just curious with one of the most safety minded companies in the world, why does honda fix this tire issue if it actually exists? why don't all GL chassis come with a CT on the rear? and if there is this "tire issue", how many law suits because of it. sorry, this rider with 30+ yrs/and hundreds of thousands of miles on two wheels is not buying it.

30 yr veteran, only ever rode wings and valks. it was very much his fault. he put a car tire on a bike, and then tried to keep up with me on my RC51 on the dragon...............

Was it the fault of the car tire or operator error? Easy to blame it on something bedsides yourself. I see a bunch of guys that ride out of their experience level and end up on the ground.

[Hog Killer DS0048]

If there's one thing that I've learned after running a ct for the last 10+ years is that you can't change people's minds about this subject. That being said, the reason I switched is for the superior rear braking on dry and wet pavement and the fact that I just plain feel safer with a bunch more rubber going down the road. Before switching I locked up the rear tire several times on dry pavement coming up a yellow/ red light. Not any more. Just bought an '04 Wing haven't put a ct on it yet,I have one bought though, simply because the rear tire has about 60% of tread left. I have ridden at least 50 to 60,000 miles in the last 10 years on a ct and yet to have a negative experience.

Just MHO.

[BradValk48237]

My Dad is currently running a Falken Ziex on his 06 Wing.....

Likes it a lot and has had no issues for the last ted or so.. put it on last year after I put one on my Valk....

I think he's running 35 ish

Brad

[Rio Wil]

i have never, nor would i try it. i watched a buddy of mine attemp to ride the Dragon on his Valk. that  150.00 car tire cost him 5k. i would like to see a goldwing tire that came apart.  what where the conditions, and how was the bike loaded, what was it hauling? i have see a couple fail, but the couple were both BIGGER people, with the bike way overloaded, and pulling a trailer........go figure. i am just curious with one of the most safety minded companies in the world, why does honda fix this tire issue if it actually exists? why don't all GL chassis come with a CT on the rear? and if there is this "tire issue", how many law suits because of it. sorry, this rider with 30+ yrs/and hundreds of thousands of miles on two wheels is not buying it.

 

would like to see a goldwing tire that came apart. 

You do realize that Honda does not actually make tires.......right.....

[hubcapsc]

and if there is this "tire issue", how many law suits because of it

None.

-Mike "that anyone has ever found... do you know of any?"

[Bighead]

I have a question.
WHAT KIND OF OIL DO YOU USE WHEN RUNNING DARKSIDE? 

[Fla. Jim]

I have a question.
WHAT KIND OF OIL DO YOU USE WHEN RUNNING DARKSIDE? 

Why Diesel of course. ( - =

[imrubicon]

I have a question.
WHAT KIND OF OIL DO YOU USE WHEN RUNNING DARKSIDE? 

Why Diesel of course. ( - =

Now that thar is funny LOL

[eric in md]

I have a question.
WHAT KIND OF OIL DO YOU USE WHEN RUNNING DARKSIDE? 

Why Diesel of course. ( - =

   i use amoil 15 50 diesel oil   change it ever 10 k and run car tars.  just try to catch us. 

Now that thar is funny LOL

[Reb]

I can't wait to sue bridgestone when I crash and burn a horrible, flaming, hella hot death...

SOB i can't sue anyone if i'm burning in hell

[Moonshot_1]

For what it's worth...

Been running the darkside for a few years and nearly 60k miles.
I've seen many also run the darkside. Have known of many who run the darkside and post on this board.

I would think that there would be enough darksiders to be statistically significant. Yet in spite of the nay sayers there isn't any evidence of any systematic failure resulting from car tire use. Perhaps to the contrary, I've seen more systematic issues with M/C tire failure and wear problems.

I realize the darkside is not for everyone. I know some folks try it and go back.
That's ok.

But for some, like me, and on particular kinds of bikes, like the Valks, it does just fine on all accounts.

[pago cruiser]

When I saw this thread, I thought someone had answered a question I'd been thinking:
Can a 1800 Valk accept a car tire?
Any thoughts on the original question?
I asked the salesguy at my stealership today, and he thinks an 1800 GW rear wheel would bolt up; which can take a car tire.  But he had no idea of any (other) fitment issues. 
OD of the tires might be different.
Anybody?

[Xyzzy]

When I saw this thread, I thought someone had answered a question I'd been thinking:
Can a 1800 Valk accept a car tire?
Any thoughts on the original question?
I asked the salesguy at my stealership today, and he thinks an 1800 GW rear wheel would bolt up; which can take a car tire.  But he had no idea of any (other) fitment issues. 
OD of the tires might be different.
Anybody?

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showpost.php?p=24920667&postcount=330

[pago cruiser]

LOL.
I posted that on ADV awhile ago; no one has yet gone down the path...
When I looked at the 2014 Valk in the stealership, their subframe was way different than the GL1800 Wing.  Guess I'll have to wait till some one tries it....

[John Schmidt]

VALKYRIE1800, your post reminds me of a professor I once had in college. The subject....Child Psychology. And therein lies the problem; she was in her late 50's, never beem married, had no kids....yet full of opinions and advice. Myself and a few others in the class were married and had kids. That spinster would get all bent out of shape when we would tell her "that flat out doesn't work with kids."  Her problem was, she had absolutely no experience in her subject matter. Judging by her appearance that wasn't about to change, so she'll go the rest of her life espousing her beliefs with nothing but hearsay(rumor).

And you mention your 30+ years of experience, try more than double that. If you look at the early motorcycle tires and stand them next to a car tire of that same period, you can hardly tell the difference. Car tires on bikes is nothing new, and I have yet to hear of any accident caused by one and they also have millions of miles of use on them.

[CajunRider]

LOL.
I posted that on ADV awhile ago; no one has yet gone down the path...
When I looked at the 2014 Valk in the stealership, their subframe was way different than the GL1800 Wing.  Guess I'll have to wait till some one tries it....

Just for Sh^#S & Giggles, I propose an experiment. 

If there's anyone in Southern Louisiana want to meet up, I'd be willing to trade rear wheels for an hour or two so it can be tried. 

I have a 2014 Wing. 

I figure... someone drop by with a Valkyrie, we swap wheels.  If the wheel mounts, the Valk can go for a spin to make sure all is good. 

Once it's tested, we swap back to the original wheels with full knowledge of whether it can be done or not.

[Xyzzy]

I have a '12 Wing in the garage, but I'm too lazy to swap wheels.

Getting the wheel out of the Valkyrie requires removing the rear fender and some frame bits.

[da prez]

Valk1800 , I ran the Dragon with darkside and pulling a trailer. Double whammy.
  I have only been riding for about 52 years.  Yes, I have been in an accident on the darkside. I was rear-ended and knocked over. I will run C/T as long as I ride a bike that can handle them. The majority of riding for most of us is basically straight line. I have 5 years on D/S. This is my two cents (b-4 taxes)

                                  da prez

[Firefighter]

It doesn't matter guys. Be happy, cause here in America you can ride any tire you want, AND you can use cooking oil if you so please, just be happy and STAY ALERT, which is more important than your tires. Firefighter

[Randy3269]

I can't wait to sue bridgestone when I crash and burn a horrible, flaming, hella hot death...

SOB i can't sue anyone if i'm burning in hell




Yep. Looks like your having a terrible time with that car tire. I run the Faulken Ziex 512 and struggle just as hard as you do. The "knock it" guys are usually the one's that have never tried it!

[VALKYRIE1800]

VALKYRIE1800, your post reminds me of a professor I once had in college. The subject....Child Psychology. And therein lies the problem; she was in her late 50's, never beem married, had no kids....yet full of opinions and advice. Myself and a few others in the class were married and had kids. That spinster would get all bent out of shape when we would tell her "that flat out doesn't work with kids."  Her problem was, she had absolutely no experience in her subject matter. Judging by her appearance that wasn't about to change, so she'll go the rest of her life espousing her beliefs with nothing but hearsay(rumor).

And you mention your 30+ years of experience, try more than double that. If you look at the early motorcycle tires and stand them next to a car tire of that same period, you can hardly tell the difference. Car tires on bikes is nothing new, and I have yet to hear of any accident caused by one and they also have millions of miles of use on them.

still wondering why bikes dont come with car tires on them???  the few that run them must know something, or wait, not know something that the rest of the m/c community does not?  would anyone really want tire technology from the 40's and 50's on their bike?

[VALKYRIE1800]

i think i will email my honda service rep. today and get his opinion.  i think we will stop stocking any m/c tires, and just stock/install car tires. wonder how long i would stay in business. any other dealers here want to comment on this, i highly doubt it.................

another thing, a bunch of us "red riders" are taking our bikes down to mid ohio and then the gap in the spring,  if anyone want to try to follow my rc51 through on a "car tire", i would love to see it.