Possible rear bearing failure on '97 Standard

[nogrey]

Went on a 4 day run with good friends last week. On our way home, after many very good rides, my young friend Shawn Wood comes over the com with "You guys feeling road vibration all of a sudden?". I chimed back with "No, change lane position to behind me and see if it makes a difference". It didn't. We were riding interstate at 70MPH at the time. We pulled over and took turns riding his bike for short distances at low speed. Definitely had some rear wheel squeaking and vibration. Pulled off the road again and gave the rear wheel a lateral jerk and noticed a fair amount of play. We found the nearest exit and parked it at a gas station. Several hours later, we had it in a trailer headed for home. Seems logical that it will be a rear bearing. Still need to tear into it but thought I'd throw it out there for theories. His bike has 34K on it.

[F6Dave]

It sure is possible, as my '98 Tourer's 6204 bearing failed at about 52K.  The dealer didn't have one in stock so I bought the replacement at NAPA, and it has lasted more than twice as long (the bike now has 174K miles).

I've never been convinced it was a design flaw, as so many have lasted for so long.  Maybe Honda's supplier gave them a bad batch of bearings.  Regardless, it's an easy (except for pulling the wheel) and very inexpensive fix.  Those bearings cost less than $20.

[Crackerborn]

Go ahead and pull the wheel, then turn the bearings by hand to see if you feel any play, roughness, or hear strange noises. Before you try to remove the old bearings, lay the wheel in the sun for a while. It helps.   

You may also want to check the wheel dampers for excessive play.

The bearings on my Girl went at 32k. I can positively say there was never any rear end maintenance done before I got her last November, so it wasn't a complete shock when it happened. I went ahead and did the bearing modification at that time. When I change the front tire this month, I will change out those bearings then, just because. And it will be time to relube the final drive long before the Girl gets put to bed for the (aack) w-w-winter. I haven't made it to Gainesville, FL yet this year to visit the family.

[Chippy01]

When the rear bearing went on my '98, I first thought I 'felt something wierd' while riding home from an outing. Herself up back couldn't confirm nor deny anything off, so I had her dismount while I tried a solo spin.
After a few runs up the road, I put it down to the road surface; and continued the 100 or so miles back home.
The following weekend (I had forgotten about the 'issue') we set out on a spin and got about 1/2 a mile when the bearing collapsed in a most spectacular fashion. Big bang/crunch and a wobble from the rear.
We pushed the bike home, and when the rear wheel was removed the remains of the bearing just fell out. I had to get the outer race removed by an engineering shop, as it had basically welded itself to the wheel.

[Cracker Jack]

Yep, needs to be replaced!!

[Skinhead]

When the rear bearing went on my '98, I first thought I 'felt something wierd' while riding home from an outing. Herself up back couldn't confirm nor deny anything off, so I had her dismount while I tried a solo spin.
After a few runs up the road, I put it down to the road surface; and continued the 100 or so miles back home.
The following weekend (I had forgotten about the 'issue') we set out on a spin and got about 1/2 a mile when the bearing collapsed in a most spectacular fashion. Big bang/crunch and a wobble from the rear.
We pushed the bike home, and when the rear wheel was removed the remains of the bearing just fell out. I had to get the outer race removed by an engineering shop, as it had basically welded itself to the wheel.

Isn't that a double row bearing?  If so, that is the first one that I've seen that failed, and you or the previous (if there was one) owner musta have done the double row bearing mod on that bike.  Unless I'm totally screwed up (wouldn't be the first time) the brake or left side is a single row.  And I'm guessing that twisted sheet metal was a nilos ring.  Am I wrong?

[nogrey]

Pulled the rear wheel this evening. Brake-side bearing was coming apart. Pulled it and replaced it. All better now! 

[lastrogue]

Can confirm success

Here's what the culprit looked like:



Thanks Uncle Greg!

[Chippy01]

When the rear bearing went on my '98, I first thought I 'felt something wierd' while riding home from an outing. Herself up back couldn't confirm nor deny anything off, so I had her dismount while I tried a solo spin.
After a few runs up the road, I put it down to the road surface; and continued the 100 or so miles back home.
The following weekend (I had forgotten about the 'issue') we set out on a spin and got about 1/2 a mile when the bearing collapsed in a most spectacular fashion. Big bang/crunch and a wobble from the rear.
We pushed the bike home, and when the rear wheel was removed the remains of the bearing just fell out. I had to get the outer race removed by an engineering shop, as it had basically welded itself to the wheel.

Isn't that a double row bearing?  If so, that is the first one that I've seen that failed, and you or the previous (if there was one) owner musta have done the double row bearing mod on that bike.  Unless I'm totally screwed up (wouldn't be the first time) the brake or left side is a single row.  And I'm guessing that twisted sheet metal was a nilos ring.  Am I wrong?

Nope, that was no double row bearing. It does look like it though, I must admit.
The previous owner of my bike only put up 2,800 miles in 9 years, so I basically picked up a 9 year old brand spanking new machine - stock Standard.
That bearing went out at around 11,600 miles. When I pulled the wheel I had the camera ready, so what you see is what I saw. The twisted sheet metal is part of the race that holds the balls in place (see the last pic posted by lastrogue above this post). You can however see what looks like a nilos ring, but I believe that is part of the dust seal.
As I said earlier, I had to send the wheel to an engineer to remove what was left of the outer race, and I just ordered in a new spacer (inner race was well stuck on that too) and new bearing. In hindsight, perhaps I should have done the double bearing mod, but so far the replacement is good.

[pago cruiser]

From the last pic, it appears the spacer is somewhat shy of the bearing seat?  Unless it's parallax, that could be the cause.  When you tighten down the axle nut, it puts lateral load on the center bearing area, with the result of much faster wear time and eventual failure. 

I started a rear wheel bearing install sequence thread a couple days ago, but apparently not much interest  : but its possible that a combination of manufacturing tolerances (involving frame, swingarm mount bosses, swingarm axle mounts, wheel, spacer, etc) and incorrect bearing install sequence could result in early failure; and the Honda Valk manual is less than clear.

On several of the HD Forums over the past couple years there have been lots of pre-mature bearing failures.  There is some weird stuff on those bikes: I put a Fat Bob wheel on my XR1200 (a long story... ), and ordered after market bearings and factory HD spacers  - for two separate rear wheels.  With the same HD part number, one spacer was a full 2mm LONGER than the other.  I installed the new bearings/spacers on each wheel, and put on the bike.  The shorter spacer wheel was significantly harder to turn once installed and with the axle tightened.  I  later ended up powdercoating the wheels, and replaced bearings and spacer - the 3rd spacer (again, same part number) matched the "longer" spacer from the first pair. 

When properly loaded, bearings have incredible load capacities.  In theory (and with typical use, excluding sidecars for instance  ...)  there should be zero failures under 50000 miles, and darn few under 100k. 

Just my $0.02.  Glad yours did not fail on a twisty mountain road 2-up going around a hairpin corner...  

[nogrey]

From the last pic, it appears the spacer is somewhat shy of the bearing seat?  Unless it's parallax, that could be the cause.  When you tighten down the axle nut, it puts lateral load on the center bearing area, with the result of much faster wear time and eventual failure. 

I started a rear wheel bearing install sequence thread a couple days ago, but apparently not much interest  : but its possible that a combination of manufacturing tolerances (involving frame, swingarm mount bosses, swingarm axle mounts, wheel, spacer, etc) and incorrect bearing install sequence could result in early failure; and the Honda Valk manual is less than clear.

On several of the HD Forums over the past couple years there have been lots of pre-mature bearing failures.  There is some weird stuff on those bikes: I put a Fat Bob wheel on my XR1200 (a long story... ), and ordered after market bearings and factory HD spacers  - for two separate rear wheels.  With the same HD part number, one spacer was a full 2mm LONGER than the other.  I installed the new bearings/spacers on each wheel, and put on the bike.  The shorter spacer wheel was significantly harder to turn once installed and with the axle tightened.  I  later ended up powdercoating the wheels, and replaced bearings and spacer - the 3rd spacer (again, same part number) matched the "longer" spacer from the first pair. 

When properly loaded, bearings have incredible load capacities.  In theory (and with typical use, excluding sidecars for instance  ...)  there should be zero failures under 50000 miles, and darn few under 100k. 

Just my $0.02.  Glad yours did not fail on a twisty mountain road 2-up going around a hairpin corner...  

I'll have to look at your thread. It must've slipped past me. In the case of my friends '97, we know that the bike sat for several years before the guy sold it to us. When we pulled the failed bearing, there was significant rust behind it and inside of it. Presumably from sitting where it was damp. The opposing bearing looked and felt fine. Hopefully that's all there is to it. He started riding it again after a long set time with a rusty bearing. It failed. Time will tell.

[Ricky-D]

The pictures are unclear regarding the bearing but I am sure

the spacer has been cut down and the bearing is a double row type.

It also would appear to me that a seal has also been employed where

there is no room for the seal.  Probably contributed to the failure

of the whole assembly. Denial that it is a double row bearing is

misplaced.

***

[Chippy01]

The pictures are unclear regarding the bearing but I am sure

the spacer has been cut down and the bearing is a double row type.

It also would appear to me that a seal has also been employed where

there is no room for the seal.  Probably contributed to the failure

of the whole assembly. Denial that it is a double row bearing is

misplaced.

***

Not so, Ricky.
As I said earlier Ii picked up the bike with 2,800 miles on her (and the original tyres!!). Although the tread was good, they were wizened to hell and vicious in the wet. I kept them on and drove gingerly while I got used to the size and weight of the Valk, and at around 4,500 miles I gave her some new rubber Avons. No other mods were done.
Around 11,600 miles the bearing collapsed. Pulled the wheel and took the pics as I went.
The wheel went away to get the outer race removed, while I got online to DavidSilverSpares in the UK and ordered a new spacer (the inner race was stuck fast on it), and new bearings and dust seals all round for both wheels, as I didn't want to take the chance of another (original) going the same way. This was in August 2008.
Put it all back together and it's been good ever since. I think I'm running around 25,000 miles on the clock now (the past couple of years has seen it under wraps most of the time due to shortening finances)
I did read on my searches at the time that there was a spate of bearing collapses and that double bearing mods were being done. I never did mine, perhaps I should of done but I didn't, I just put it back as it was with new bearings and seals.

You're welcome to come across and disprove my misplaced denial if you wish. I still have all the old parts I took off the bike at the time.  

[gordonv]

I didn't want to argue either, but I know what Ricky is saying, that pictures is very clear, it is a double row bearing on the failed side. You can even see the 2 rows of ball bearings sitting in the rim, very hard to say that it is a single row.

I would look over the information that could be found in the forum on double row conversion, and measure my rear width before I would put that rear end back together.

You can place a single or double row bearing in the rim. It isn't until you place that space and put the whole rear end back together, that you find out something is wrong.

[Skinhead]

Another reason I think it is a double is the outer bearing race takes up the entire bearing pocket in the wheel, there is no room for the dust seal.  When I did the double row mod on a couple bikes, I epoxied the dust seal to the wheel. 

[Chippy01]

I would suggest you guys take a closer look.
In the middle pic (where it shows supposedly two rows of bearings) the 'outer row' is loose balls sitting in what's left of the dust seal. The 'inner row' is loose balls sitting where the remains of the old single row bearing is.

[Skinhead]

I See Your Point.  It Is Hard To Make Out In The Pics.  Like I Said, That Would Have Been The First Double Row Failure Known To Man.