Jeff K
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« Reply #40 on: August 20, 2009, 06:02:24 AM » |
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If you think you are OK just because you chose a better profession than some others, I think you are fooling yourself. I just hope you never really need your insurance.
And by the way, I'm not necessarily arguing in favor of a government run health care system. But, I do think the entire industry needs overhauled in some way. Admittedly, I do not know what that will take or what the best solution is.
I think everyone agrees that the system needs work. I am just not in favor of running full speed into this dark alley and hoping everything will be OK. If it takes time to come up with a plan that works well for everyone, then we should take the time to work out the details, not pass a vague bill and work out the details later. And I certainly do not want a government run health care system. As you can tell I'm not a fan of giving people a free ride on anything. I'm not against helping people get on their feet, I'm just tired of watching people milk the system, and I don't want to give them another teat to tug on. My ex daughter in law keeps popping out kids because it increases her tax return amount, she pays hundreds in, gets thousands back, what a great deal! As far as jobs go, I'm a firm believer that if you want to work you will find a job. You may have to pack up and move, you may have to change careers, but there are jobs if you want to work.
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Bob E.
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« Reply #41 on: August 20, 2009, 06:16:10 AM » |
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If you think you are OK just because you chose a better profession than some others, I think you are fooling yourself. I just hope you never really need your insurance.
And by the way, I'm not necessarily arguing in favor of a government run health care system. But, I do think the entire industry needs overhauled in some way. Admittedly, I do not know what that will take or what the best solution is.
I think everyone agrees that the system needs work. I am just not in favor of running full speed into this dark alley and hoping everything will be OK. If it takes time to come up with a plan that works well for everyone, then we should take the time to work out the details, not pass a vague bill and work out the details later. And I certainly do not want a government run health care system. As you can tell I'm not a fan of giving people a free ride on anything. I'm not against helping people get on their feet, I'm just tired of watching people milk the system, and I don't want to give them another teat to tug on. My ex daughter in law keeps popping out kids because it increases her tax return amount, she pays hundreds in, gets thousands back, what a great deal! As far as jobs go, I'm a firm believer that if you want to work you will find a job. You may have to pack up and move, you may have to change careers, but there are jobs if you want to work. With that, I agree 100% 
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ChromeDome
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Posts: 2175
Aurora, IL.
60 miles West of Chicago!
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« Reply #42 on: August 20, 2009, 07:46:50 AM » |
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I have seen several references to 'This Bill' when commenting on possible Heath Care Legislation but there is a problem when talking about 'This Bill' and that is that there is NO bill at this time. If I'm not mistaken, there are 3 bills in the House and 2 in the Senate. So what is 'This Bill' everyone keeps talking about or is it just bits and pieces of various legislation, opinions and comments that someone, not in congress or the senate, has decided is a representation of what may become the Health Care Legislation?
I think it is great that this is being discussed, that people are expressing their hopes and concerns and that we let our elected officials know what we think. But I also believe that we can disagree with out being disagreeable ... and far to often things are getting disagreeable and in some instances hostile.
And if you think that you are not already paying the medical bills for illegals and those that can not or will not pay then you need a reality check. Every time an illegal, or dead beat, goes into the ER, gets care and doesn't pay .... that cost will eventually end up in future charges to the patients, and their insurance companies, that do pay.
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ChromeDome
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Posts: 2175
Aurora, IL.
60 miles West of Chicago!
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« Reply #44 on: August 20, 2009, 10:03:20 AM » |
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Interesting ... I wonder who, or what, TPMDC is.
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Charlie
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Posts: 322
It's not what you say you do that counts.....
Grand Rapids, MI
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« Reply #45 on: August 20, 2009, 12:57:13 PM » |
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Interesting ... I wonder who, or what, TPMDC is.
Here is an explanation from Wikipedia. It appears to be a liberal (or should I say "progressive") on-line group. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talking_Points_Memo
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 States I have visited on my motorcycles Charlie #23695
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Varmintmist
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« Reply #46 on: August 20, 2009, 01:04:46 PM » |
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Interesting ... I wonder who, or what, TPMDC is.
There are other referances, that was just the first I picked after giving it a 20 second overview. The fact that it comes from a er "progressive" source is icing on the cake. Search reconciliation and health care for yourself. Always do your OWN research please dont believe anything I or anyone else posts on the internet. That way when you see someone state that there is no mandatory end of life stuff you can search it yourself and realize that the word SHALL is in there, meaning that you SHALL, not might or maybe, shall\.
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However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results. Churchill
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valkmc
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Posts: 619
Idaho??
Ocala/Daytona Fl
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« Reply #47 on: August 20, 2009, 01:16:06 PM » |
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Groups like that make it hard to find the truth in issues like healthcare, just remember these groups exsist on both sides. The first thing I do is find out who wrote whatever I am reading and try to figure out the authors purpose. One of the people making noise, and a lot of noise on the other side is Rick Scott. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_L._ScottRead this about him, he was involved in the largest medicare fraud in history, so he certianly dores not want healthcare reform. He works for and is being paid for by a group called conservatives for patients rights (he founded it). He also related to a Senator by the name of Bill First. Between groups like these two I am not sure of who to believe, the only thing I know is healthcare or access to it in this country gets worse for the bottom of the population eveyyear. I am smart enough to know that if something is not done the bad part of this will eventually reach me. I am not for free health care at all, but it should be affordable to people who have a job and it should be controlled by someone other than huge insurance companies making a ton of money of individuals healthcare problems.
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2013 Black and Red F6B (Gone) 2016 1800 Gold Wing (Gone) 1997 Valkyrie Tourer 2018 Gold Wing Non Tour
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lynn
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« Reply #48 on: August 21, 2009, 07:17:04 AM » |
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So what i am reading tells me that most folks would like the following. Universal heath care That is not run by government That is affordable That is for citizens This sound about right? As a side note health care here in Canada is run by the provinces not Ottawa
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What to ride today? THe cbr 1100XX or the Valkyrie
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Jeff K
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« Reply #49 on: August 21, 2009, 07:33:54 AM » |
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Universal heath care That is not run by government That is affordable That is for citizens
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asfltdncr
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« Reply #50 on: August 21, 2009, 09:34:55 AM » |
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I'm not sure in what capacity F106 worked for the Fed Govt for 22 years.I retired from FG with 27 years of civil service and 3 years of service in US Army.My retirement payments were seamless as were all retirees that I worked with that had the wherewithall to do what they were supposed to do upon retirement. I worked at a Veteran's Administration Medical Center for my entire career and although I was on the Engineering side of the VA, I take issue with the painting of all Federal Employees with the same color.I venture to say that the percentage of motivated employees to total workforce probably doesn't differ much from the private sector. I had interaction with all the departments and department heads.There were examples after examples of compassion,professionalism, success against all odds.We had cutting edge technology in virtually all departments and weren't afraid to use it.The patients are surveyed and steps are continuously implimented based on these surveys. The veterans were assigned to clinics (yellow,blue,etc) and it operated the same as my private healthcare.The vets see the same nursing staff and doctors for the appointments that were made.There wasn't any unreasonable wait-pharmacy would mail your scrips.By the way-the patients were pleased with the service they received.
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valkmc
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Posts: 619
Idaho??
Ocala/Daytona Fl
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« Reply #51 on: August 21, 2009, 02:17:26 PM » |
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As Americans don't most of us feel we can do most things better than other countries??? We make better weapons than other countries, we have by far the best armed forces in the world, not doubt we lead the world in many medical procedures (I know if someone has to operate on my heart I want it done in this country). Why can't we come up with the best universal health care, something that is fair to everyone? It doesn't have to be free, nor should it be.
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2013 Black and Red F6B (Gone) 2016 1800 Gold Wing (Gone) 1997 Valkyrie Tourer 2018 Gold Wing Non Tour
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Chrisj CMA
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« Reply #52 on: August 21, 2009, 02:28:38 PM » |
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As Americans don't most of us feel we can do most things better than other countries??? We make better weapons than other countries, we have by far the best armed forces in the world, not doubt we lead the world in many medical procedures (I know if someone has to operate on my heart I want it done in this country). Why can't we come up with the best universal health care, something that is fair to everyone? It doesn't have to be free, nor should it be.
Our government could do that if that was their goal. It is not! The current government is concerned with a few things that has nothing to do with quality healthcare insurance: -power and control. The more they buy the more they control -redistribution of wealth. What this government LIKES about the proposed bill is not what it will or will not do, but HOW MUCH IT COSTS.....that way they know it will be paid for be the richest first and the money will go to their "pets" just look at how much ACORN keeps getting...redistribution -future re-elections......take care of the future voters.....right now its the Hispanics, thats why I say no matter what they say in public, they will allow illegals to have way more access to this than they should.........they never stop campaigning
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Scanner
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« Reply #53 on: August 21, 2009, 03:34:38 PM » |
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Chris, how much does the infamous ACORN keep getting? From where? And do you really understand the redistribution of wealth argument? We wil agree that "thems thats gots the gold makes the rules", right? Well, if you consider financial wealth - net worth minus the values of your home, the top 1% have 42.3% of the wealth in this country. The next 19% control another 50.2% of the nations wealth. That leaves the remaining 80% of Americans with 7.5% of the wealth. And no, it's not because they work harder or anything like that. The vast majority is inherited wealth - old money in stocks and bonds belonging to people who never worked a day in their life. That's why their party - the Republicans - fight to the death to try and eliminate capital gains and Estate taxes. As Bush said at a fundraiser, " some people call you "the Elite"...I call you my base". Some very good research at this link - though it's from a University so probably suspect by some here: http://sociology.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/wealth.html
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Reality - it's nice here, come visit sometime!
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Chrisj CMA
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« Reply #54 on: August 21, 2009, 03:58:55 PM » |
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Chris, how much does the infamous ACORN keep getting? From where?
Too much, as corrupt as they are and prone to fraud, they should all be in JAIL!
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Scanner
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« Reply #55 on: August 21, 2009, 04:27:52 PM » |
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So this is just something you heard or got in an email? Are there any facts behind your opinion? You said "look at how much ACORN keeps getting"...where can we look to see this?
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« Last Edit: August 21, 2009, 04:29:55 PM by Scanner »
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Reality - it's nice here, come visit sometime!
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Karen
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« Reply #56 on: August 21, 2009, 06:26:06 PM » |
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Seems to me that there are a lot of affluent Democrats in this country; how many of them have gotten that way while serving in political office? I'm Republican because I don't want to support those who fell entitled to what I've worked for. Been in the Army, worked pumping gas when you could still do that, janitor, musician, temp work, factory assembly & inspection, never been too proud to do an honest days work. Get the illegals out of the country & give those jobs to Americans who need some work, it's a start. Along the way, I put myself through college twice, still paying off the second student loan from 11 years ago, but I'm a software engineer & am doing OK. There were times in my life when I didn't have enough, but I do now. America. The Land of Opportunity. And Personal Responsibility. "A Government that is big enough to give you everything you need is powerful enough to take it all away." My Valkyrie also leans to the right...
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franco6
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« Reply #57 on: August 22, 2009, 11:12:44 PM » |
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wasn t it Ronnie Reagan who made all illegals legal? beside an actor wasn t he a gop president? 
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Enjoy the ride!
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b1rks
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« Reply #58 on: August 23, 2009, 05:13:30 PM » |
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All I know is As a Canadian. I get a little tired of hearing Half-Truths.about our Health Care. It ain't perfect, we need more Doctors in rural area's. And there are occasionally long waits in emergency rooms. But I have had both knees fixed, and a couple broken noses, all from Hockey. All repaired allmost right away. Hospitals are well run. My Daughter was 3 lbs when she was born. Thanks to one of the best childrens hospital in the world. She's now a School Teacher.And we apparently pay less for Hlth Care. Makes me laugh to here some of the crap people are saying. From either side. Hopfully the facts will float to the top. Very Interesting to watch. Lot's of Passion.
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Jeff K
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« Reply #59 on: August 23, 2009, 05:36:37 PM » |
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And we apparently pay less for Hlth Care.
The money is coming from somewhere, it's still coming from you, just by some other means. And you say you need more doctors? What is the motivation for becoming a doctor? crappy pay?
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Varmintmist
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« Reply #60 on: August 23, 2009, 07:32:31 PM » |
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wasn t it Ronnie Reagan who made all illegals legal? beside an actor wasn t he a gop president?  He did the first amnesty, in theory to get a fresh start and start enforcing the laws on the books, like MCain wanted to do, and it would have resulted in the same th. In that act the congress was supposed to create and enforce employer sanctions, never happened. There was no amnesty to anyone who was deemed to be a risk of becoming a "public charge", never happened. Persons who would get amnesty were to have been those who were continusly employed. Any guess as to how long it took Tip O to shoot that down? Thankfully, it didnt pass through or Nancy Pelosie might have lost a couple hundreths of a point of a percent of her Del Monte fortune by hiring americans, or soon to be americans.
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However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results. Churchill
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Chrisj CMA
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« Reply #61 on: September 04, 2009, 07:30:48 AM » |
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Chris, how much does the infamous ACORN keep getting? From where? And do you really understand the redistribution of wealth argument? We wil agree that "thems thats gots the gold makes the rules", right? Well, if you consider financial wealth - net worth minus the values of your home, the top 1% have 42.3% of the wealth in this country. The next 19% control another 50.2% of the nations wealth. That leaves the remaining 80% of Americans with 7.5% of the wealth. And no, it's not because they work harder or anything like that. The vast majority is inherited wealth - old money in stocks and bonds belonging to people who never worked a day in their life. That's why their party - the Republicans - fight to the death to try and eliminate capital gains and Estate taxes. As Bush said at a fundraiser, " some people call you "the Elite"...I call you my base". Some very good research at this link - though it's from a University so probably suspect by some here: http://sociology.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/wealth.htmlOK, Scanner I just found this..On February 6, 2009, Sen. David Vitter of Louisiana offered an amendment that would have blocked ACORN from receiving stimulus funds. The amendment failed on a 45-51 vote, with just six Democrats voting yes. It went on to say that ACORN will get over 4 billion in stimulus funds. That is a lot of money to be redistributed. This insanity needs to be stopped.
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Puffs Daddy
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« Reply #62 on: September 04, 2009, 08:01:50 AM » |
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Chris, how much does the infamous ACORN keep getting? From where? And do you really understand the redistribution of wealth argument? We wil agree that "thems thats gots the gold makes the rules", right? Well, if you consider financial wealth - net worth minus the values of your home, the top 1% have 42.3% of the wealth in this country. The next 19% control another 50.2% of the nations wealth. That leaves the remaining 80% of Americans with 7.5% of the wealth. And no, it's not because they work harder or anything like that. The vast majority is inherited wealth - old money in stocks and bonds belonging to people who never worked a day in their life. That's why their party - the Republicans - fight to the death to try and eliminate capital gains and Estate taxes. As Bush said at a fundraiser, " some people call you "the Elite"...I call you my base". Some very good research at this link - though it's from a University so probably suspect by some here: http://sociology.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/wealth.htmlOK, Scanner I just found this..On February 6, 2009, Sen. David Vitter of Louisiana offered an amendment that would have blocked ACORN from receiving stimulus funds. The amendment failed on a 45-51 vote, with just six Democrats voting yes. It went on to say that ACORN will get over 4 billion in stimulus funds. That is a lot of money to be redistributed. This insanity needs to be stopped. Another urban legend from the loony right. In fact, ACORN will not "get over $4 billion in stimulus funds." ACORN, like thousands of other community development organizations is eligible to compete for a total of $5.2 billion in stimulus funds for thousands of projects. ACORN is treated no differently than other private organizations that apply for federal grants. http://www.factcheck.org/2009/02/the-stimulus-bill-and-acorn/
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Chrisj CMA
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« Reply #63 on: September 04, 2009, 09:01:45 AM » |
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OK, Scanner I just found this..On February 6, 2009, Sen. David Vitter of Louisiana offered an amendment that would have blocked ACORN from receiving stimulus funds. The amendment failed on a 45-51 vote, with just six Democrats voting yes. It went on to say that ACORN will get over 4 billion in stimulus funds. That is a lot of money to be redistributed. This insanity needs to be stopped. [/quote] Another urban legend from the loony right. In fact, ACORN will not "get over $4 billion in stimulus funds." ACORN, like thousands of other community development organizations is eligible to compete for a total of $5.2 billion in stimulus funds for thousands of projects. ACORN is treated no differently than other private organizations that apply for federal grants. http://www.factcheck.org/2009/02/the-stimulus-bill-and-acorn/[/quote] They will get it........and I can probably find you some swamp land here in FL to sell you if you actually believe they will compete with anyone for the $$ Oh, ya they will compete with all the other "community organizers" that are in Obama's pocket......they are all the same and working for all the same people......one big mess that is in need of community clean up groups if you ask me. I do think its funny that you use an official OBAMA network publication to refute anything that looks bad for his administration.....I bet this paper has good things to say about Van Jones too
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« Last Edit: September 04, 2009, 09:06:26 AM by Chrisj CMA CR3M »
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Puffs Daddy
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« Reply #64 on: September 04, 2009, 09:17:40 AM » |
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OK, Scanner I just found this..On February 6, 2009, Sen. David Vitter of Louisiana offered an amendment that would have blocked ACORN from receiving stimulus funds. The amendment failed on a 45-51 vote, with just six Democrats voting yes.
It went on to say that ACORN will get over 4 billion in stimulus funds. That is a lot of money to be redistributed. This insanity needs to be stopped.
Another urban legend from the loony right. In fact, ACORN will not "get over $4 billion in stimulus funds." ACORN, like thousands of other community development organizations is eligible to compete for a total of $5.2 billion in stimulus funds for thousands of projects. ACORN is treated no differently than other private organizations that apply for federal grants. http://www.factcheck.org/2009/02/the-stimulus-bill-and-acorn/[/quote] They will get it........and I can probably find you some swamp land here in FL to sell you if you actually believe they will compete with anyone for the $$ Oh, ya they will compete with all the other "community organizers" that are in Obama's pocket......they are all the same and working for all the same people......one big mess that is in need of community clean up groups if you ask me. I do think its funny that you use an official OBAMA network publication to refute anything that looks bad for his administration.....I bet this paper has good things to say about Van Jones too [/quote] The fact that you believe the Annenberg Public Policy Center at the University of Pennsylvania is an "official OBAMA" site is evidence enough of your ignorance.
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Chrisj CMA
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« Reply #65 on: September 04, 2009, 09:29:17 AM » |
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Ok, you are right they are not part of the Obama administration.....I should have put "official" because they are certainly in the tank, and soaked in the koolaid
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Varmintmist
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« Reply #66 on: September 04, 2009, 11:38:41 AM » |
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The fact that you believe the Annenberg Public Policy Center at the University of Pennsylvania is an "official OBAMA" site is evidence enough of your ignorance. And the fact that you could believe that they are NOT in the tank is evidence of yours. They take money ONLY from the Annenberg foundation, which just happens to have recieved a 3.5 MILLION earmark, from _____. You fill in the blank. 5 letters. Starts with O If you are trying to say that U of P is not biased, I have this steel mill that I will sell you, cheap. Its a turn key operation. They are a research university. They live through the largess of OPM (other peoples money) tax money that funds the pet project of the moment. The notables include is Noam Chomski and Justice Brennan.
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However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results. Churchill
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Duffy
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« Reply #67 on: September 04, 2009, 11:57:31 AM » |
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Let's start with this: whatever healthcare system the Congress approves, make it the same system that covers them.
RIght now our Senate and House of Rep's have the best healthcare and the best retirement plan for themselves, which is sperate from what we get via SS and Medicare/Medicaid.
I want my Senators and Reps to have the same program I am offered. Period.
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Varmintmist
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« Reply #68 on: September 04, 2009, 12:00:26 PM » |
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Let's start with this: whatever healthcare system the Congress approves, make it the same system that covers them.
RIght now our Senate and House of Rep's have the best healthcare and the best retirement plan for themselves, which is sperate from what we get via SS and Medicare/Medicaid.
I want my Senators and Reps to have the same program I am offered. Period.
They already exempted themselves. I posted before that that is the easiest way to tell if a bill is bogus.
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However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results. Churchill
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Puffs Daddy
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« Reply #69 on: September 04, 2009, 03:19:49 PM » |
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The fact that you believe the Annenberg Public Policy Center at the University of Pennsylvania is an "official OBAMA" site is evidence enough of your ignorance. And the fact that you could believe that they are NOT in the tank is evidence of yours. They take money ONLY from the Annenberg foundation, which just happens to have recieved a 3.5 MILLION earmark, from _____. You fill in the blank. 5 letters. Starts with O If you are trying to say that U of P is not biased, I have this steel mill that I will sell you, cheap. Its a turn key operation. They are a research university. They live through the largess of OPM (other peoples money) tax money that funds the pet project of the moment. The notables include is Noam Chomski and Justice Brennan. You're just full of misinformation, aren't you. The Annenberg Foundation is a private family foundation funded from the fortune of Walter Annenberg, the publisher of TV Guide, a fellow who was convicted of illegal campaign contributions to Richard Nixon. If you'd care to document the "3.5 million earmark," feel free. You won't I suspect. Especially since the Annenberg Foundation is not eligible for "earmarks." It has, however, given out about $1.2 billion, that's billion, to a wide variety of non-profits. What you don't know about the Annenberg Foundation would apparently fill a library. As for the "bias" of the University of Pennsylvania, I strongly suspect you believe any accredited university is "biased." It's an attitude widely found among those who couldn't get in.
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