another petcock question

[pancho]

I have already worked on the petcock twice (new cover rubber) to get it to act right in the past, pulled the tank off the other day for some electrical work, and the petcock it leaking again from the output port.

I figure that the problem is with #2 in Gryphon RIders' drawing,

http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,66725.msg650590/topicseen.html#msg650590

and I will look into that, but I also have a problem with it dripping when it is in the off position, (somewhat scary) which suggests that it needs attention in valve/switch (riveted) side,, two problems.

I would like to know if that side of the petcock is rebuildable, and how it is done if possible. I do not plan on changing out the petcock as I really like the OEM setup,, even if it does require maintenance,, but only if I can make it reliable.   

                             dripping in the off position is just looking for trouble

[Bone]

I like the OEM petcock. One day enjoying the weather I notice the odometer telling me I was getting the best gas mileage ever or something was wrong. Not on reserve yet I turned it off (petcock) and back to the on position it started stumbling. I figured I originally turned it on and left it in a neutral position between on and reserve. The tank was real close to empty when I found a gas station.
I now make sure I feel the click when I turn the fuel on, reserve and stop.
Maybe yours is leaking past the ball in the off position. Mine is now converted to manual I can't afford a leaking stop position.

[F6Dave]

I removed the rivets once to open the other side.  I replaced them with screws and all has worked well for years.  If I were to do that again I would buy a new one if Honda still offers them.  I looked at HDL's site a few years ago and they were about $90.  

[hubcapsc]

I'm not sure what you mean by "output port", but it can leak
out of the little drain if the diaphragm is bad... my buddy Gary's
bike leaked when he got it, the previous owner had attempted
a fix by plugging the drain  , anyhow, we fixed it
with a cover set.

Gary's was shooting raw gas out the exhaust, and gas was running
down into #6 via the vacuum line...



-Mike

[Chrisj CMA]

Best course of action is to replace that piece of junk with an after market good valve and then you will never have to worry about petcock related fuel flow problems again.  The OEM valve is so close to meeting minimum needs with maximum output that any degradation in its performance can ruin your ride and or whole day.  I went with the manual Pingel and never regretted it.  turning off the gas is now an automatic thing.

[hubcapsc]

turning off the gas is now an automatic thing.

That works well for some people. I would hate it. I love my
OEM valve, it has always worked great.

-Mike

[Chrisj CMA]

turning off the gas is now an automatic thing.

That works well for some people. I would hate it. I love my
OEM valve,

-Mike

Pingel does make a vacuum operated one.  If you really need the auto shut off feature, it has to be a better piece of equipment than the OEM. 

it has always worked great.

They all work great until they stop working great, and they all will stop working great sooner not later compared to a quality piece

[Ricky-D]

If you have to rely on mechanical means to compensate

for your lack of ability to focus on remembering to do

certain things, it's probably time to give up your keys

and other things and accept your disabilities.

***

[Chrisj CMA]

If you have to rely on mechanical means to compensate

for your lack of ability to focus on remembering to do

certain things, it's probably time to give up your keys

and other things and accept your disabilities.

***

Merry Christmas and a HAPPY New Year to you too RickyD

[westnek]

Best course of action is to replace that piece of junk with an after market good valve and then you will never have to worry about petcock related fuel flow problems again.  The OEM valve is so close to meeting minimum needs with maximum output that any degradation in its performance can ruin your ride and or whole day.  I went with the manual Pingel and never regretted it.  turning off the gas is now an automatic thing.

hi chris  read petcock issues ?? is  ''whats a pingel ?? sounds good to me I allways turn fuel off ,,havnt had any probs with pet rooster yet 100018 kilos Canada  eh!!!--valk std '98'
thanks  west

[Chrisj CMA]

Best course of action is to replace that piece of junk with an after market good valve and then you will never have to worry about petcock related fuel flow problems again.  The OEM valve is so close to meeting minimum needs with maximum output that any degradation in its performance can ruin your ride and or whole day.  I went with the manual Pingel and never regretted it.  turning off the gas is now an automatic thing.

hi chris  read petcock issues ?? is  ''whats a pingel ?? sounds good to me I allways turn fuel off ,,havnt had any probs with pet rooster yet 100018 kilos Canada  eh!!!--valk std '98'
thanks  west

search this site for the ones for the Valkyrie
http://www.pingelonline.com/prodcat/fuel-valves.asp

[pancho]

If you have to rely on mechanical means to compensate

for your lack of ability to focus on remembering to do

certain things, it's probably time to give up your keys

and other things and accept your disabilities.

***

Hey Ricky-D,,,  merry Christmas buddy,, and don't you EVER accept your disabilities,,, just let the Lord get rid of them for you!!


It is leaking out the port where it is supposed to flow,, not out the weep/drain/breathing hole,, still, leaking is no good on our babies.

I am going to repair the OEM if possible as I really like it,, the more complicated, the better it is!!!

I will look into the leak through of the cover set (which I have done before)  but I wonder about the o rings Bones' picture shows on the manual side,,, can they be had?? what are the sizes?? I would like to be prepared before I drill out the rivets.

[The emperor has no clothes]

turning off the gas is now an automatic thing.

That works well for some people. I would hate it. I love my
OEM valve, it has always worked great.

-Mike

Same here. I have a 01 Standard with 57k that's had no issues. I have a 99 IS that had a new cover set.

If you have to rely on mechanical means to compensate

for your lack of ability to focus on remembering to do

certain things, it's probably time to give up your keys

and other things and accept your disabilities.

***

Hey Ricky-D,,,  merry Christmas buddy,, and don't you EVER accept your disabilities,,, just let the Lord get rid of them for you!!


It is leaking out the port where it is supposed to flow,, not out the weep/drain/breathing hole,, still, leaking is no good on our babies.

I am going to repair the OEM if possible as I really like it,, the more complicated, the better it is!!!

I will look into the leak through of the cover set (which I have done before)  but I wonder about the o rings Bones' picture shows on the manual side,,, can they be had?? what are the sizes?? I would like to be prepared before I drill out the rivets.

I think you need a new cover set. Even if the rivet side is messed up a functioning cover set should not let it leak when you remove the tank.

[hubcapsc]

I always do the vacuum test in this write up after I replace a cover set:

http://www.valkyrieriders.com/shoptalk/petcock.htm

The test is easy, and helps you be pretty sure the fix is in before you put everything
back together...

-Mike

[lee]

This will make the third or fourth time I have advised folks not to read the article in shop talk.  It has to many errors in it.

From the article: The outer section is just a cover.
Not true:  The outer section (A) has the check valve in it and a very small vent hole.  It acts as a vacuum buffer, and the vent lets the valve close when no vacuum is applied.

From the article:  The middle section (B) holds the diaphragm.
Not complete:  It also holds the neoprene piece (G) that shuts off the valve when no vacuum is applied.

From the article:  Notice that this section has a small nipple protruding which has a hole in the center. This is a check valve.
Not true:  This is a drain hole.  If the neoprene part has a hole in it gas will leak out here.

Part (D) in the photo is important,  if not installed correctly it will cause problems.  (I call it a spring purch)  It should be attached to the vacuum diaphram nipple.



I have seen one valve that started leaking around the large o-ring that seals the manual cover. 







From the article:   Remember which direction this is facing in relationship to the main section.
It can only be installed one way.  If you get this wrong,  turn in your drivers license.
The rims on the vacuum diaphram and the neprene form the sealing gaskets, they must be correct when you put the valve together.

[hubcapsc]

This will make the third or fourth time I have advised folks not to read the article in shop talk.  It has to many errors in it.

I've noticed that, but I always advise people to read it anyway, the test is A Good Thing.
I've seen more than one petcock where the rebuilder failed to get the flaps oriented
correctly or snapped onto that little button the right way, and the test would have told
them they weren't done without having to find out the hard way. The pictures you
post are a good reference for flap orientation.

It is an error to call D, E and G flaps and that other little thing isn't really a button, but
I don't care, I just want my petcock to work...

-Mike

[Bighead]

My 97 has the original Petcock never had a problem but the only time that it is moved is when I have to switch to reserve. I would say 17 yrs is later rather than sooner.

[Valkpilot]

If you have to rely on mechanical means to compensate

for your lack of ability to focus on remembering to do

certain things, it's probably time to give up your keys

and other things and accept your disabilities.

***

Hey Ricky-D,,,  merry Christmas buddy,, and don't you EVER accept your disabilities,,, just let the Lord get rid of them for you!!


It is leaking out the port where it is supposed to flow,, not out the weep/drain/breathing hole,, still, leaking is no good on our babies.

I am going to repair the OEM if possible as I really like it,, the more complicated, the better it is!!!

I will look into the leak through of the cover set (which I have done before)  but I wonder about the o rings Bones' picture shows on the manual side,,, can they be had?? what are the sizes?? I would like to be prepared before I drill out the rivets.

Another possibility is that the spring seat (part D in the pictures above) has slipped off the diaphragm nipple and so the spring is not holding part G tightly against the output port from the switch side to the delivery side.

[Chrisj CMA]

My 97 has the original Petcock never had a problem but the only time that it is moved is when I have to switch to reserve. I would say 17 yrs is later rather than sooner.

there are always exceptions......once there are multiple rebuilds happening. Its time.

[Crackerborn]

Cleaned and rebuilt OEM petcock and a Dan-Marc last November when I got the Girl. Converted to manual gravity feed in June as the OEM diaphragm tore once agian. Pingel 1311CH installed in August when the OEM would't stop fuel from flowing in the off position. No more OEM issues.

[Lyle Laun]

we're always having this debate. I like the vacumn aspect of the OEM valve but don't trust it and the shut-off isn't the best. I have done what Chrisj suggested and went with the vacumn pingle valve (1311-CHV).

This gives me a better than OEM vacumn operated valve that actually has a shutoff valve that I trust. A bit pricey but worth it IMHO

[Bighead]

why shut it off if it is vacuum operated? if all is working there is ZERO need to turn it off. No matter what petcock you have.

[pancho]

Yep,, I'm aware that I have a problem on both sides of the petcock,, and I did do a vacuum test to insure the vacuum side was working when I redid the cover set a year and a half ago, I remember that I had to do it twice to get it to work correctly.

It is flowing right through now without a vacuum,, stuck open, and dripping in the off position.  Maybe I did something wrong when I assembled it..??  I will remove it and open up both sides in a day or two to check things out, I have been stuck on this electrical project as my second job for a couple of days.



but I did find that 5 amp accessory connector that I would have sworn was not on my bike,, it was buried back in there.  Still wondering about the o rings and cover gasket on the manual side,, anyone know anything???

[Dusty]

 And the reason the petcock is dripping is the  rubber check valve vent (4 o'clock position in the picture) is not allowing air to bleed back into  the vacuum chamber so the spring can close the diaphragm. Blow some compressed air into that little vent hole to clear debris out of the hole. I spray carb cleaner or WD- 40 into the vacuum nipple then blow it out with compressed air to  flush debris out of that area. It will solve your problem

Dusty

[Dusty]

 The selector side of the petcock has a  spring loaded ball that seals up against the o rings that are around the red  hole and the  grey hole. The green hole is supply from your tank. The red hole is reserve supply from your tank and the grey hole is output to your engine. When the selector is off the ball sits over the grey hole. When the selector is in the on position the ball covers the red hole. When reserve is selected the ball move over to the hole on the plate and all three holes are open( green  red  and grey). If the ball is not seating properly on the O-rings it will allow fuel to pass by.






Hope these pictures show you what is going on.

Dusty

[pancho]

Yep, that is a good explanation and pictorial on the manual side Dusty, thanks,, (what kind of dyes did you use in that petcock??), and Lee gave some good information on the Vacuum side,, with that info and everyones good advice and suggestions, I should be able to find the problems when I open her up.... still wondering about a source for the orings and cover gasket on the manual side.

[Dusty]

Your local NAPA or PEP Boys should have a bulk  o-ring supply kit. Just take the samples to them to match up

Dusty.

[Bone]

Yep, that is a good explanation and pictorial on the manual side Dusty, thanks,

+1

[indybobm]

Your local NAPA or PEP Boys should have a bulk  o-ring supply kit. Just take the samples to them to match up

Dusty.

I could be wrong (not the first time) but I thought that they are not o-rings but part of a sheet that is under the plate.
 If someone has a bad petcock, they could drill the rivets holding the plate and show what is underneath.

[pancho]

Well it seems to be the accepted way to reseal the manual side of the petcock when it is opened is to tap it and use machine screws,, got it.      I wonder if you guys that have done it have reused the cover gasket/oring, or have found a replacement oring the correct size? Also there has to be a seal on the shaft as it runs through the manual side cover,,,,, is this an oring ??

Dusty,, I wonder what kind of dyes those are that you used in that petcock illustration? It really shows up nice.


I see what you are saying indybobm,, if nobody can answer that,, I'll find out in a day or two and report the findings,, if it is a sheet, that may be the end of a rebuild if there are problems with the ball sealing,, and mine is leaking in the off position.

[Dusty]

Indybobm is right it's not O-rings. I drilled out the three rivets that hold the plate  in place. So the  o- rings (I thought) that the ball seals against is actually a  formed rubber. It is square in cross section and looks like a pair of eyeglasses .

O-O

Both seals are attached to one another with a short leg. they fit in a recess in the aluminum.

The seals on the selector shaft are a square cross section and flat  on three sides and  U shaped on the side that seals between the shaft and the cover. There are two seals that sit in grooves on the shaft


I will try and take some pictures later today and post them

The dyes are actually spray paint. I used this as a demo at the first Inzane in Frisco  Colorado for a tech day talk.

  Before drilling out the rivets make sure the selector is centered  in the off position and then check for leakage. If it still leaks in the off position  I would remove the petcock from the tank , remove the  in tank screen from the petcock and disassemble the petcock, select the reserve position and blow compressed air through to flush out any possible debris. Last resort would be drilling out the rivets.

Form A gasket or something similar should reseal the cover if required.

Dusty

Dusty

[pancho]

Finally got around to checking out the petcock to find why it was flowing with no vacuum applied.





You had it right Dusty, the check valve area is so gummed up that I could not free the ball with a vacuum, I had to poke it with a dental tool to get it to move. The vent is also plugged as the fuel valve was still open after having been off the bike for about 10 days. I think I will leave the "manual side" alone for now once the vacuum side is working as I am not sure I can get it to seal fuel tight once I open it.

 I think I will order one of these $22 Chinese clone petcocks
   http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-shipping-New-Gas-Fuel-Valve-Petcock-for-HONDA-1997-2003-GL1500-C-Valkyrie-OEM-H69/2038771328.html  (thanks meathead)
  and open the "manual side" once I replace the OEM petcock with it.      Now,,, can I get the "spring perch"/spacer    D   back on the diaphragm   E   without removing the diaphragm from the neoprene seal assembly  F  and G  ?? or are they just stuck together with gunk??  I am trying to handle these parts as little as possible as I don't think I have a spare cover set (I may, but haven't found it) and do not want to damage the pieces. I don't want to place an order and wait on it right now.

[pancho]

Guess I waited too long on this,,, today it says   "no longer available"

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-shipping-New-Gas-Fuel-Valve-Petcock-for-HONDA-1997-2003-GL1500-C-Valkyrie-OEM-H69/2038771328.html


Add it to the wish list..

[Dusty]

Pancho

 Those pieces all just come apart and reassemble. Sometimes a little oil on the rubber will make them  come apart and go together easier. I've got the petcock disassembled in a bag on my desk here and I just popped it all apart and reassembled.

Dusty

[lee]

I suggest SPIT not oil on E or the back side of G.

[indybobm]

Guess I waited too long on this,,, today it says   "no longer available"

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-shipping-New-Gas-Fuel-Valve-Petcock-for-HONDA-1997-2003-GL1500-C-Valkyrie-OEM-H69/2038771328.html


Add it to the wish list..

I looked at it, seems like there are 999 left. Only 2 have been ordered. The only way I would buy one is if they took PayPal. No way am I going to give them a credit card number, and you have to join their club to buy one. Looks like the same one is available on ebay for $55.00

http://www.ebay.com/itm/221585163332?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

[The emperor has no clothes]

Guess I waited too long on this,,, today it says   "no longer available"

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-shipping-New-Gas-Fuel-Valve-Petcock-for-HONDA-1997-2003-GL1500-C-Valkyrie-OEM-H69/2038771328.html


Add it to the wish list..

I looked at it, seems like there are 999 left. Only 2 have been ordered. The only way I would buy one is if they took PayPal. No way am I going to give them a credit card number, and you have to join their club to buy one. Looks like the same one is available on ebay for $55.00

http://www.ebay.com/itm/221585163332?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

I understand your reluctance. I have bought a few things now thru them with no problems. Brake pads are a good price and are working great. (Thanks Grumpy)

[pancho]

Guess I waited too long on this,,, today it says   "no longer available"

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-shipping-New-Gas-Fuel-Valve-Petcock-for-HONDA-1997-2003-GL1500-C-Valkyrie-OEM-H69/2038771328.html


Add it to the wish list..

I looked at it, seems like there are 999 left. Only 2 have been ordered. The only way I would buy one is if they took PayPal. No way am I going to give them a credit card number, and you have to join their club to buy one. Looks like the same one is available on ebay for $55.00

http://www.ebay.com/itm/221585163332?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Huhh,, they're baaaack,, this morning it said no longer available...???  I don't think much about buying online from anywhere anymore,, been doing it too long I guess.. I have only had problems from one place and it was in the states. Over a couple of years I had a few small unauthorized charges on the card I used to order stuff and had to keep going to the bank and getting the card replaced and the charges reversed. After watching it carefully for awhile, I found that it seemed to happen a short while after I placed orders with an electronics parts supply house in GA that I has used for years. When I stopped using them, the unauthorized charges stopped,, the bank had no interest or any way of pursuing the  problem as far as I could tell.

When I pulled the rubber parts apart, I remembered how it went together,, you're right, no problem. I also found this looking through a parts drawer,, apparently I had bought more parts than I needed when I did it the first time.  I assembled it with the old rubber parts as they still seemed good. It's working.....



I thought I would be riding tomorrow, but now my front calipers are very tight in the cold, too tight to ride with, so I need to place an order anyhow for caliper piston seals and oil bolt washers,, like right now.  I needed a seal for the shifter rod anyhow.

[moodyvalk]

I just thought I would throw a plug into this thread regarding the vacuum style petcocks....everyone including the guys running a manual petcock need to think seriously about this, the vacuum petcocks were not designs for a convenience feature of turning on and off the fuel flow for you but rather they were designed as a safety feature.   99% of most serious motorcycle wrecks the fuel tank will come off of the bike, with a vacuum operated petcock when the tank flies off and the vacuum line becomes disconnected the fuel will NOT continue to flow out.  The idea is you will only have to recover from sliding on concrete versus recovering from sliding on concrete and 1st degree burns if the fuel was to ignite. 

Simply adding your petcock rebuild into your normal maintenance schedule will save you alot of headache or worse in the future.  If anyone needs one rebuilt, I know a forum member out of tulsa that can get anyone fixed up, shot me a private message for his contact info....

[Chrisj CMA]

I just thought I would throw a plug into this thread regarding the vacuum style petcocks....everyone including the guys running a manual petcock need to think seriously about this, the vacuum petcocks were not designs for a convenience feature of turning on and off the fuel flow for you but rather they were designed as a safety feature.   99% of most serious motorcycle wrecks the fuel tank will come off of the bike, with a vacuum operated petcock when the tank flies off and the vacuum line becomes disconnected the fuel will NOT continue to flow out.  The idea is you will only have to recover from sliding on concrete versus recovering from sliding on concrete and 1st degree burns if the fuel was to ignite. 

Simply adding your petcock rebuild into your normal maintenance schedule will save you alot of headache or worse in the future.  If anyone needs one rebuilt, I know a forum member out of tulsa that can get anyone fixed up, shot me a private message for his contact info....

If the fuel tank comes off the bike, I can think of several probably causes for a fuel leak besides the valve.  Your theory may provide a level of safety in a very specific circumstance (maybe) but definitely doesn't outweigh the need for a quality fuel valve.  BTW the vacuum petcock will stop fuel from flowing out of the valve when its working.  The OEM ones with those diaphragms just stop working whenever they feel like it, seems like if you are correct many Valkyrie riders are tempting a fiery death, OH MY what if they also have a car tire and ride with shorts on in the summer, the horror!