Front end feels loose

[Firefighter]

I have wrote about this before. I have a 2000 IS and I have a problem with a loose feeling in the front end. Feels like loose steering bearings or wheel bearings when I maneuver at slow speed. I can sit on the bike and shake the handlebars then stop and the front end seems to wiggle for a second, bothers me when I ride. I have replaced steering bearings and had the forks and wheel off a couple of times, don't see a problem or feel any looseness. I have the handlebars off now experimenting with bearing torque with no results yet. Are the forks able to flex anywhere? If I loosen the pinch clamps and slide the forks up or down do I need to remove the front wheel first and then re-torque the pinch clamps or just re-torque with the wheel on? Any ideas welcome.  Firefighter

[Chrisj CMA]

Im sorry to say this, but I will for safety sake.  If the front end still wiggles after you stop shaking the handlebars and you already know it feels squirrelly, then YOU SHOULD NOT BE RIDING IT.  At least not until you get it fixed.  Checking the head and wheel bearings is not hard, If you cant do it, have a shop do it, but stay off that thing until its right

[Firefighter]

That is what I am trying to do. I don't have a shop that I would trust, and with this site and the manual have always been able to do everything myself. I hope to find the problem. Thanks

[Rio Wil]

Take a look at the diameter of the fork tubes where the pinch bolts are......it is larger than the diameter of the rest of the tube......

Have you compared the feel of your bike with another Valk to see if you are chasing a ghost.....

Have you checked the big hex head frame bolts down by the swing arm bearings for looseness.....with my bike on the side stand, I can shake the handlebars quickly and there is an oscillation that lasts for a half second or so but dampens out quickly. When turning into a parking lot with a slanted drive, there is a slight flexing of the frame-fork tubes that can be felt........find another bike and do a comparison for a base line....

[John Schmidt]

Just moving the handlebars back and forth doesn't give you a true indication of a loose front end. You need to raise the bike so the wheel is off the ground, then try lifting/pulling the wheel outward. If it's loose in the neck, it will show up then.

[Firefighter]

I will check what you said. I don't remember this flex feeling a year ago but could be wrong. I live at the end of the world and have not seen another Valk around. I have checked the swing bearings with the rear wheel off for maintenance, checking by hand all seems tight.
 Its not terrible, but does make me notice sometimes. Now I have gone to the dark side and that may have increased my senses a little. Thanks Firefighter

[Rio Wil]

Feels like loose steering bearings or wheel bearings when I maneuver at slow speed. I can sit on the bike and shake the handlebars then stop and the front end seems to wiggle for a second,.....

When he says "shake" the handlebars back and forth it means more than just moving them...

[Firefighter]

I have it off the ground now. Difficult to hold the bike still while I try and find a sloppyness somewhere, but I cant feel anything loose yet.

[hubcapsc]

You say you've "checked" the swingarm and felt no looseness... have you
actually torqued the swingarm nuts?

My friend went into almost a tank-slapper serious head-shake kind of
thing while passing a semi once, turned out to be loose rear wheel
spokes...

Stuff that makes the front seem wrong doesn't always have to be in
the front...

-Mike "no Valkyries don't have spokes  ... my friend's bike doesn't either anymore"

[Hook#3287]

Check the rear shock bushings.

[Firefighter]

I did not check the swing arm bearing torque. I bought a tool made to work on swing arm bearings but the tool just bent when I tried to use it, so I left the bearings alone. I have new bearings if I need them. I could not detect any play in the swing arm.

I have new rear progressive shocks and bushings installed.

I torqued the steering  bearings to 30 lbs. today and put the handlebars back together, the shimmy is still there when I wiggle the handlebars so I don't think the steering bearing being loose is the problem. Will re-torque back to 9 lbs. when I get ready to go back together.

 Thanks for your input!  Firefighter

[hubcapsc]

Here's the Honda swingarm tool... (plus bearing drivers)...



-Mike

[Hook#3287]

Handlebar riser nuts?

[Firefighter]

There tight, have had them off and on several times. I ordered a swingarm tool on the internet I think from ebay out of England. The metal was so soft that it just started twisting. Can the Honda original tool be ordered?  Thanks

[Gavin_Sons]

Check the rear end. Had the same symptoms for a week. After chasing it down found the rear axle nut loose. Tightened it and all was good. Good thing I only rode 600 miles that week  

Oh, also check the risers, uad one loose and in a tight turn in a parking lot the front wheel wanted to walk. I didnt even get 1 turn out of the nut before it fell off. Rode several hundred miles on this one too.

[hubcapsc]

Basically all the Honda tools can be ordered. Their part numbers are in the shop manual.

The swingarm tool's part number is: 07908-4690003

Put that number in google, and a bunch of hits will come out.

One of the hits was this one from Amazon for an "equivalent" tool... is this
the one you ended up with?

http://www.amazon.com/Swingarm-Swinging-Adjuster-Motorcycle-07908-4690003/dp/B00GEHCWRW

HDL lists a 07908-4690003 for $60...

I got a bunch of my Honda tools (not this one) from boat places, I guess bearings are bearings...

I can't see the one I got ever bending... all the OEM Honda tools seem to be made out of
kryptonite or something...

-Mike

[Firefighter]

Thanks, I need to bite the bullet and get one, may only use it once. The one I bought was really cheap, will look it up when I can and post it. Only one I see is new from partzilla 90.00, wow! Firefighter

[Michvalk]

Any fork leakage?  Might be the bushings in the forks

[Firefighter]

No fork leaks, have wondered if there is anyway the forks can cause this looseness? Also once the pinch clamps have been loose, do I need to loosen the front wheel and readjust the axle pinch bolts?
Firefighter

[salty1]

No fork leaks, have wondered if there is anyway the forks can cause this looseness? Also once the pinch clamps have been loose, do I need to loosen the front wheel and readjust the axle pinch bolts?
Firefighter

According to the service manual, you would make sure the top of the forks tubes were even with the top bridge, tighten lower pinch bolts, install the fork caps, tighten the upper pinch bolts, etc. with the wheel off.  The wheel would then be reinstalled following Honda's protocol.

This looseness is really weird.  ???   Did you do anything to your bike prior to this happening?

[Gryphon Rider]

You really need to get together with someone else who has an IS and who has some mechanical skills and experience.  Compare the bikes, and if yours behaves differently, start examining your bike for where the movement originates.  By "examine" I mean with your eyes, ears, and hands.  I've found that my hands can feel play that my eyes can't see by having my hand pressed against both adjacent parts while someone else creates the movement.  I assume you've had someone else wiggle the bars while you've been crawling around the bike trying to find looseness?  Also, does the reaction change when you add or remove weight from the top box?

[Ricky-D]

Hell, there's so much weight sitting in the back end, the bike can't even

be lifted off the ground without a special rig under the bike to distribute

the weight. You can grab the back end of an Interstate and shake the

crap out of the bike. Do you need an example. Recall being a child

riding a bicycle with a friend on the rear fender. It was hard even to stay

up.  If the swingarm displays no looseness, there is no looseness.

The same with the front end.  This whole thing is an exercise in futility

and much ado about nothing.

***

[Firefighter]

Yea Salty, that was what I read, will pull the front wheel and check bearings once again, and put it back together by the book again. Thanks

Gryphon Rider, no There is no one around me that I know with a Valk, I am at the end of the world, and have not been able to have help (shaking the bars while I watched) either. Hope to do some of that after I get it all back together. Thanks

Ricky D, haven't detected any movement in the swingarm, but when I ride and turn into a uneven driveway or around a rough corner I do feel an uneasy looseness in the front end that bothers me kind of unnerving. I don't like it, and it did not used to do it so it is a real concern for me! Thanks

[longrider]

Firefighter

I am going through your exact problem as I write this.  92 k on the clock.  I've replaced wheel bearings  steering bearings  Shock bushings  brakes tires.  I can't pinpoint it but believe it started after a fork seal change.   I am ordering a new set of fork bushings.  I'll be installing in a couple of months.  In the meantime I am going to try and adjust the left fork out a hair at the pinch bolts.  A little won't hurt just to see what happens.   Let us know if you come up with an answer

[Firefighter]

I am not too knowledgeable with forks, and in my original question I was asking if the forks could cause this, maybe have some play in them, no one has responded with info on that so was kind of doubting that forks where the problem. I am still looking when I have time and my bike is still apart, please let me know also, if you find a cause.  Thank you  Firefighter

[Hook#3287]

What pressure are you running in the tires and are you sure the gauge your using is close to correct?

[Michvalk]

I am not too knowledgeable with forks, and in my original question I was asking if the forks could cause this, maybe have some play in them, no one has responded with info on that so was kind of doubting that forks where the problem. I am still looking when I have time and my bike is still apart, please let me know also, if you find a cause.  Thank you  Firefighter

Yes, if the bushings are worn enough, you could feel the slop. But, usually, they leak when there is some slop in the bushings. That's why I asked if the forks leak

[Firefighter]

Sorry I take so long to respond. I take care of my 86 year old mother who has dementia. My riding, and maintenance time is cut way back for now.

Hook, I recently changed both tires. I have a Metzler Marathon 880 up front with 38 psi and a Yokohama Envigor 205/60/16 H rated car tire in the back with 40 psi. I have experimented with pressures and use a accu gauge that I trust, think that was the name. Both tires have Ride-on formula that I have used for years. My Metzler has a high spot approx. 16th of an inch, the ride-on balances it except for high speed I can see my fairing shake some. Will probably go back to Avon on the front as soon as I get to it. This loose problem was there before the new tires.

Michvalk, there is no fork leaks, but I need to get some help holding the bike so I can try to feel any play. Will probably take the forks off again and try to test them some how. Thanks everyone for your help, Firefighter

[Hook#3287]

Do you think it's possible it's just the difference between a MC and CT?  They do handle different, especially at low speed, with a CT.

I've got a MC on one, a Austone taxi tire on another and untill recently I had a very wide low profile BF Goodrich on another.  They all handle different.

As far as checking your forks alone,  while on the bike, try this.  If you have a lift, lift the bike just so it starts to rise the front wheel.  Tape a straight edge (4' level) to the forks running as parallel to the tubes as you can.  Measure the distance between the straight edge and the tube.  Lift the bike so the wheel is off the ground and measure again in the same spot.   Drop the bike and measure again.  The measurement should be the same in all positions.

I never tried this, it's just something I came up with while trying to help you from my chair.

Hope it helps.

[Firefighter]

So you mean make sure the travel stays the same? Wouldn't it have to, since both forks attach to the axle, or are you thinking the axle could twist?

I had this same front in loose feeling before when my steering bearings were loose. I since changed the bearings and they were indexed, and the problem went away.Then I noticed the loose trouble come back and thought I needed to re-torque, so at another 1000 miles I re-torqued them, but the loose feeling was still there. I did change the tires somewhere during that time, so I guess it is possible the tires could have something to do with all this.

I will try everything that has been suggested, and put it all back together according to the book, and try to check the forks. Longrider is having the same trouble and was going to try something also, hope he can cure his and teach me something. If I figure it out, or not, will let you know  Thanks everyone  Firefighter

[Hook#3287]

So you mean make sure the travel stays the same? Wouldn't it have to, since both forks attach to the axle, or are you thinking the axle could twist?

You seemed concerned with "Slop" as MichValk called it, or movement due to the bushings being worn.  I've never experienced this issue. 

I don't believe the axle can move, or twist, unless it's not correctly installed.

Seems like just about every potential cause has been addressed.  If it's that bad, re-install your MC tire, see if that fixes it.

[Firefighter]

That is what I will do. Thanks