Hydro lock

[old man]

I've seen much print on this subject but don't really understand it.

What causes it?

Seems like the engine gets locked up for some reason and the starter teeth get sheared, then it seems like the engine has to be removed to correct it.

I have a Standard 1999, is there something I have to do to prevent this from happening to this bike? Or should I not even be concerned about it.

As always, thanks in advance for your consideration.

[art]

Hydrolock can occur from several reasons. Gas leaking into the cylinders and not allowing the pistons to fully move up in the cylinders resulting in the engine locking up and breaking the teeth on the starter. It happens when the shutoff valve leaks or the needles in the carbs leak gas into the cylinders.Some people an myself have changed the shutoff valve to a manual valve and do turn off the gas whenever the bike is not in use. It can also happen if the bike falls over and is not picked up for a long time. Gas will drain into the cylinders as will some motor oil. I've had this happen to me twice where the Valk was on it side and once got oil in and the second time gas and was hydro locked.

[The emperor has no clothes]

In my opinion the best preventative thing to do is 1) Make sure your petcock is working properly
                                                                         2) Install a DanMarc shutoff valve
                                                                         3) Ride your bike as much as possible

[dpcarson]

Old man.  Please forgive the redundancy if this has already been said repeatedly in other threads.  I just finished repairing an IS that had the teeth busted on the idler gear due to that I am guessing is hydrolock.  During my work this is what I observed, which lead me to have an opinion of what happened anyway.

First, according to the previous owner this bike was put away in 20067 when his wife had back surgery.  When she was feeling better in 2008 they pulled the bike out and tried to ride it then and her back would not take it so they put it up again.  They did not drain fuel and did not treat fuel with stabilizer. 

First thing I found when I pulled off the carbs is that the #6 carb was gummed up the most.  The needle valve was stuck pretty tight and the float was stuck in place also.  In addition, when I pulled the engine out and looked at the exhaust ports the #6 exhaust port was sticky and shiny when a light hit it instead of dry looking like the other 5.  What I gathered from that is the following narrative from the previous owner is spot on for what lead to the hydrolock.

in 2014 they pulled the bike out in the spring and all of the fuel had pretty much evaporated from the tank, so they put a little fresh fuel in it and tried to start it.  it fired briefly but ran so bad that they turned it off and put it back in the barn.  I am thinking that this poor running was due to the stuck needle valve in cylinder 6.  Now when they cut it off it then had new gas in it that probably ran down into and through the stuck valve in carb #6 and filled up that cylinder.  Fast forward to late 2014 when they tried to fire it up again and the cylinder was still full of gas that had not had time to evaporate and the piston could not push it out of the valve fast enough and then...... clunk, clunk, buzz as the starter spins past the busted teeth. 

I am absolutely no mechanic, but this is at least the conclusion I drew after seeing everythgin I found during the tear down and everything that the previous owner told me both before I bought the bike, and in more detail when I called after the teardown for more details.

Maybe this helps, and maybe it is somewhat accurate.  But then again, all I did was watch a few videos and read a manual and this board.  I may be completely off base.

[Hook#3287]

I don't believe there is a simple way to prevent the dreaded Hydro-lock.  There seems to be several scenario's to cause fuel to fill one or more cylinders.

The best advice I use, and give to others, is to "Bump" your starter button.  Hopefully, that will alert you to a lock before you shear any gear teeth.

I worked for me once last year when I trailered my bike 1500 miles to FL, went for a ride, stopped for lunch and when I came out, no turnover.  I bumped the switch, nothing, bumped it again, nothing. I thought it was the battery or starter.  I didn't realize it was "Locked" till my buddy and I tried push starting the bike, and even in 3rd gear, the Austone TT would just squeal.  I pulled the plugs and hit the starter covering my buddy with gas.  He wasn't happy.    Man, that gas shot out far.

My petcock and two float valves were leaking.  I rebuilt the cover set there but didn't realize about the float valves till this fall.

[old man]

Thank you all for your replys.  Bottom line is: don't let gas sit in the carbs.  It could cause a misfire which in turn throws the engine out of sinc with the starter, shearing the starters teeth off.

I think.

[gordonv]

No, bottom line is fuel (liquid) is not compressible. If you get it into the engine cylinder, it can jam the engine. The starter is strong enough to break the gear teeth if you press it for more than a second after the engine is jammed.

That is why the suggestion of pressing your start button for a second a couple of times, to ensure that the motor is turning over (not jammed).

What caused the fuel to leak into the engine is the $1,000,000 question.

[old man]

Thank you!  So, the way to avoid this situation is to quickly tap the starter switch and let the bike start.  If you hold the switch and let it crank until it starts, that is when you are asking for problems.

[Hook#3287]

There's no guarantee that "Bumping" the starter button will prevent damage from a hydro lock.  The theory is the bump will show you the engine will turn over and is not locked, but your not putting enough time in to break gears IF your hydro locked. 

[Tfrank59]

That's all good info.  So I read somewhere on this that just making sure your fuel shut off is working is a big thing--just try riding occasionally in the off position to test it?  Reason I ask is I have a stock petcock and occasionally I forget to turn it on and within a mile or so it bogs and will die but I catch it in time.  I'd say that means fuel shouldn't fill my engine as long as the petcock is off, thereby avoiding a hydro lock scenario, right? ???

[Savago]

Dear Friends

I've read a lot about hydrolock in this forum and others (vmax and yamaha venture) and came up to the following solution for it: simply ride the bike in a daily basis.

All hydrolocked bikes have being sitting a long time until seeing any action.

Valkyries were designed and built to be ridden, and I dare to say, hard. Do not let your fat lady collecting dust and she will be happy.

Cheers


Savago
ps: that being said, the 'tap-before-first-start' is a nice tip and 1 bottle of techron from time to time is always a good idea.
:-D

[Hook#3287]

  All hydrolocked bikes have being sitting a long time until seeing any action.

Not true.  Mine hydro locked while I was having lunch.

[Ricky-D]

That's all good info.  So I read somewhere on this that just making sure your fuel shut off is working is a big thing--just try riding occasionally in the off position to test it?  Reason I ask is I have a stock petcock and occasionally I forget to turn it on and within a mile or so it bogs and will die but I catch it in time.  I'd say that means fuel shouldn't fill my engine as long as the petcock is off, thereby avoiding a hydro lock scenario, right? ???

Such a test is not conclusive evidence that gasoline is completely shut off. Only that it's off to a degree as to where the engine will not run. The only true test is to disconnect the fuel line from the stopcock and observe the results. It only takes a few drops per minute to allow a hydrolock event. That's been the problem with the stock unit. It doesn't always completely shut the fuel supply. Most like to keep the stock unit because of the chrome knob and the looks. You have to choose, keep the stock unit and the gamble or go aftermarket for the assurance.

***

[Savago]

Hook

That is interesting. Was the OEM petcock closed when you parked the bike? Was it leaking?

Regards


Savago

[Willow]

Good advice presented as well as some really deeply incorrect assumptions.

Hydrolock is a fairly rare occurrence but expensive and a great annoyance if it occurs.

Bottom line of the analysis is that the fuel system to the carbs and engine on a Valk is gravity fed.  If fuel is allowed to flow through the petcock when it shouldn't and allowed to flow through a carb due to a failed float valve and the cylinder is resting in a position to allow it to fill then hydrolock is the result.  As stated, fuel (liquid) does not compress.  The Valkyrie starter is strong enough that when the engine refuses to turn over the starter can still present enough force to break a few gear teeth.

If you really are worried about hydrolock a lot of the suggestions offered are good ways to reduce the chances to almost nil.  The one way to remove the possibility entirely is to rid your Valkyrie of the gravity fed fuel system.  The easy, but not cheap, way to do this is to install the R&M Belly Tank.  The Belly Tank places the fuel below the engine so you will not, without turning the bike upside down, fill a cylinder while the engine isn't turning.  Fuel from the belly tank is moved to the carbs by a fuel pump.  The fuel pump only operates when the switch is turned on.     

[westnek]

Good advice presented as well as some really deeply incorrect assumptions.

Hydrolock is a fairly rare occurrence but expensive and a great annoyance if it occurs.

Bottom line of the analysis is that the fuel system to the carbs and engine on a Valk is gravity fed.  If fuel is allowed to flow through the petcock when it shouldn't and allowed to flow through a carb due to a failed float valve and the cylinder is resting in a position to allow it to fill then hydrolock is the result.  As stated, fuel (liquid) does not compress.  The Valkyrie starter is strong enough that when the engine refuses to turn over the starter can still present enough force to break a few gear teeth.

If you really are worried about hydrolock a lot of the suggestions offered are good ways to reduce the chances to almost nil.  The one way to remove the possibility entirely is to rid your Valkyrie of the gravity fed fuel system.  The easy, but not cheap, way to do this is to install the R&M Belly Tank.  The Belly Tank places the fuel below the engine so you will not, without turning the bike upside down, fill a cylinder while the engine isn't turning.  Fuel from the belly tank is moved to the carbs by a fuel pump.  The fuel pump only operates when the switch is turned on.     

hi folks my ? is ..after winter storage would It help to pull the spark plugs and push bike in gear to turn it over some to see or smell fuel  come out of cylinders before turning fuel on and starting It up..if no siiiiiigns of fuel splashing out then you could be sure pet rooster was shut off over winter ==am I right in this  =thanks  so much west

[Hook#3287]

Hook

That is interesting. Was the OEM petcock closed when you parked the bike? Was it leaking?

Regards


Savago

The petcock was on and it was leaking.  I was on vaca and I replaced the cover set while still in FL. I removed and cleaned the carbs, replacing all the float valves, this fall.

[westnek]

Good advice presented as well as some really deeply incorrect assumptions.

Hydrolock is a fairly rare occurrence but expensive and a great annoyance if it occurs.

Bottom line of the analysis is that the fuel system to the carbs and engine on a Valk is gravity fed.  If fuel is allowed to flow through the petcock when it shouldn't and allowed to flow through a carb due to a failed float valve and the cylinder is resting in a position to allow it to fill then hydrolock is the result.  As stated, fuel (liquid) does not compress.  The Valkyrie starter is strong enough that when the engine refuses to turn over the starter can still present enough force to break a few gear teeth.

If you really are worried about hydrolock a lot of the suggestions offered are good ways to reduce the chances to almost nil.  The one way to remove the possibility entirely is to rid your Valkyrie of the gravity fed fuel system.  The easy, but not cheap, way to do this is to install the R&M Belly Tank.  The Belly Tank places the fuel below the engine so you will not, without turning the bike upside down, fill a cylinder while the engine isn't turning.  Fuel from the belly tank is moved to the carbs by a fuel pump.  The fuel pump only operates when the switch is turned on.     

hi folks my ? is ..after winter storage would It help to pull the spark plugs and push bike in gear to turn it over some to see or smell fuel  come out of cylinders before turning fuel on and starting It up..if no signs of fuel splashing out then you could be sure pet rooster was shut off and not leaking  over winter ==am I right in this  =thanks  so much west
I should have made myself clearer===knowing petcock was in off position

[Hook#3287]

hi folks my ? is ..after winter storage would It help to pull the spark plugs and push bike in gear to turn it over some to see or smell fuel  come out of cylinders before turning fuel on and starting It up..if no signs of fuel splashing out then you could be sure pet rooster was shut off and not leaking  over winter ==am I right in this

No, that does not prove your petcock is not leaking.  Your petcock could be defective but your carb float valves are doing their job, stopping gas flow to the intake.

There a several ways to check your petcock function, with one way being shutting it off while running and waiting for the gas to burn up.

You could check the cylinders by pulling the plugs and turning the engine over with a socket wench on the crank bolt.

[MarkT]

All hydrolocked bikes have being sitting a long time until seeing any action.

Not our Magna either.  Hydrolocked while sitting at the parking lot at work, during one 8-hour day.  And the bike was almost brand new.

[MarkT]

Good advice presented as well as some really deeply incorrect assumptions.

Hydrolock is a fairly rare occurrence but expensive and a great annoyance if it occurs.

Bottom line of the analysis is that the fuel system to the carbs and engine on a Valk is gravity fed.  If fuel is allowed to flow through the petcock when it shouldn't and allowed to flow through a carb due to a failed float valve and the cylinder is resting in a position to allow it to fill then hydrolock is the result.  As stated, fuel (liquid) does not compress.  The Valkyrie starter is strong enough that when the engine refuses to turn over the starter can still present enough force to break a few gear teeth.

If you really are worried about hydrolock a lot of the suggestions offered are good ways to reduce the chances to almost nil.  The one way to remove the possibility entirely is to rid your Valkyrie of the gravity fed fuel system.  The easy, but not cheap, way to do this is to install the R&M Belly Tank.  The Belly Tank places the fuel below the engine so you will not, without turning the bike upside down, fill a cylinder while the engine isn't turning.  Fuel from the belly tank is moved to the carbs by a fuel pump.  The fuel pump only operates when the switch is turned on.      

Willow - is there a failure scenario even with the belly tank?  I'm thinking, there is still a head of potential pressure to push gas into the engine with gas in the OEM tank.  The fuel pump stops that pressure, correct?  What if the fuel pump leaks?  Is that possible?  Or does it depend on the design of the fuel pump, which given a failure, fuel cannot pass through it?

Personally, I just installed a Dan-Marc and called it prevented. Also set it up with a relay set up as a "latch" to provide an anti hijack/theft device, as long as I'm going to have an electric fuel valve - might as well add a feature. (See http://www.horseapple.com/Valkyrie/Tech_Tips/Fuel_Shutoff/fuel_shutoff.html ) Did not do the other steps - fuel filter, or different petcock, or make the OEM petcock manual.  Still have the vacuum line connected because I'm convinced fuel cannot leak down that line w/o being discovered. Both the fuel valve diaphram and the vacuum diaphram have to fail for there to be a path for the fuel to pass down the vacuum line - and there is a vent between them, so if the fuel diaphram cracks, fuel will leak out the vent and you will know you have a failure from the leak. If the vacuum diaphram cracks, you will also know it because the bike won't run with the vacuum diaphram remaining closed due to the leak.

[gordonv]

I bought an electric fuel pump from a VT1100. My understanding is that they act as fuel shot off valves, when not running. Will install into my Valk when I get one.

Don't know if fuel can push up from the belly tank. But fuel can also leak from a damaged diaphragm on the petcock through the vacuum line to carb 6 and flood the engine to hydro lock.