SANDMAN5
Member
Posts: 2176
Mileage 65875
East TN
|
 |
« on: August 30, 2009, 04:09:15 PM » |
|
I'm trying to make up my mind between a 5 shot 2in barrel 357 mag OR a 44 Special. Decisions,decisions!! I've fired several 357 mag loads over the years and I know they'll put a hurt on the target. Never fired (or even KNOW anybody that's fired) the 44 Special. If I'm reading the ballistics and test results right, the 44 will make a bigger hole, but the 357 will go deeper. I really love the 357 magnum but I'm thinking the 44 might be better for close range in a crowded environment. Less chance of putting lead thru the bad guy into somebody behind him. But the 357 can also fire 38 Specials in case ammo is hard to find....but that kinda defeats the purpose of having the magnum frame, don't it? Anybody that has fired both care to compare them as far as recoil, flash/bang and why (or if) you prefer one over the other? I know it's MY decision to make, just looking for input from those in the know. Thanks.  P.S. I already have a 9mm semi I carry, looking for a revolver big enough to stop a perp that my wife can carry, that's why the interest in recoil. She's not comfortable with semi's. She does very well with my current 357. Wondering how much more kick a lighter gun will have. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
"Evolution" is a dying religion being kept alive with tax dollars.  |
|
|
|
Jess from VA
|
|
« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2009, 04:41:36 PM » |
|
Bob, I would take the .357 over a .44 special every time, for you or your wife. The terminal ballistics on the .44 special are not that good. This was why Elmer Keith and other old timers wildcatted the .44 Special up to the .44 Magnum. The .44 is a bigger frame and heavier gun to lug than the available .357s. There is just a ton more types and styles of .357 cartridges to choose from than the .44 Sp. More leather too. And you cannot discount practice with .38 special and wadcutters for cheap. If this is not to be CCW piece, I highly recommend a 4" .357 (maybe a 3" if available) over a 2 or 2.5 bbl. Accuracy and controlability go way up over a snubby (and muzzle flash down) with full .357 loads. The wife (or anyone) will enjoy it more and practice more with something they can hit with. The cops throughout the county carried 4" S & W model 19s (blue) for decades before they all went auto for good reason. The .125gr JHP is still the all time one shot stopper. I have a highly tuned Model 66 stainless (bright orange and white adjustable sights and greasy smooth double action trigger that is a joy to shoot.....and just head and shoulders better than a J frame (except to carry). The newer 586/686 (?) full underlug ejector shroud Smiths are nice, but heavier. I'd look for a good used adjustable sight 4" 19 or 66. (Unless it must be smaller) JMHO Taurus also makes top notch S & W lookalikes.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
SANDMAN5
Member
Posts: 2176
Mileage 65875
East TN
|
|
« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2009, 05:00:48 PM » |
|
Yeah, that's what I have now...4in Taurus. It shoots great, just too big for her to
carry and even harder to conceal. That's why the 2in barrel is important.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
"Evolution" is a dying religion being kept alive with tax dollars. |
|
|
|
Jess from VA
|
|
« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2009, 05:36:31 PM » |
|
OH OK
I'd still get her a .357 or .38 snub over a .44 Sp. In these, I prefer the shrouded hammer over the no hammer, I think only in .38 if they still make them (the bodyguard?).
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
srbarclay
|
|
« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2009, 05:49:55 PM » |
|
You ammo is a huge factor to consider.
Hydra Shock personal defense, blue glacier or Hornady is fantastic ammo.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Ferris Leets
|
|
« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2009, 06:30:58 PM » |
|
If you actually compare the 38 to the 357 from a 2 or 3" barrel there is not much difference. A lot more powder burned in the air and more blast but not velocity.
I just got my Ruger LCR Friday. It is okayed for .38+P which gets you almost the same performance from the short barrel as the .357. I only got to shoot it a little today. Very easy to handle and operate. Good for small hands. Very light, so it does recoil some, but not painful or unmanageable. The Ruger LCP was my other choice. I don't like the idea of leaving brass lying around and it would have meant setting up for another cartridge so I stuck with the .38.
One thing I have never really agreed with is the idea of practicing (for serious shooting) with .38s in a .357. The bullets go to a different point of aim and the gun recoils differently also. It's all about muscle memory and if the gun does something completely different in combat your muscles are not going to have the memory to work with. The 357s will hit a lot lower and probably to one side or the other of the .38 practice wadcutters.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
V98
|
|
« Reply #6 on: August 31, 2009, 05:03:45 AM » |
|
Bob, I would take the .357 over a .44 special every time, for you or your wife. The terminal ballistics on the .44 special are not that good. This was why Elmer Keith and other old timers wildcatted the .44 Special up to the .44 Magnum. The .44 is a bigger frame and heavier gun to lug than the available .357s. There is just a ton more types and styles of .357 cartridges to choose from than the .44 Sp. More leather too. And you cannot discount practice with .38 special and wadcutters for cheap. If this is not to be CCW piece, I highly recommend a 4" .357 (maybe a 3" if available) over a 2 or 2.5 bbl. Accuracy and controlability go way up over a snubby (and muzzle flash down) with full .357 loads. The wife (or anyone) will enjoy it more and practice more with something they can hit with. The cops throughout the county carried 4" S & W model 19s (blue) for decades before they all went auto for good reason. The .125gr JHP is still the all time one shot stopper. I have a highly tuned Model 66 stainless (bright orange and white adjustable sights and greasy smooth double action trigger that is a joy to shoot.....and just head and shoulders better than a J frame (except to carry). The newer 586/686 (?) full underlug ejector shroud Smiths are nice, but heavier. I'd look for a good used adjustable sight 4" 19 or 66. (Unless it must be smaller) JMHO Taurus also makes top notch S & W lookalikes.
Only because that is what most LEO's used. If they had been allowed to carry .45 ACP,it would have been a much different story. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
solo1
|
|
« Reply #7 on: August 31, 2009, 05:22:37 AM » |
|
I've been in the shooting sports for over 59 years. Elmer Keith was responsible for going to Smith & Wesson and making the case for the .44 magnum. He did not do it for the .44 special's lack of stopping power for personal defense but because he wanted a handgun cartridge for hunting big game.
The .44 special is roughly the equivalant of the .45 ACP but in a revolver. It is a very good cartridge for personal defense with modern hollow point bullets. Probably the most popular .44 revolver for this cartridge these days is the Charter Arms Bulldog. While some people complained about the reliability of the Bulldog, I owned one that was reliable but certainly not of the quality of Smith or Ruger.
I'm in fact waiting for Charter Arms to make the 3" Bulldog in left handed configuration.
A .357 Magnum is a very good cartridge and develops excellent stopping power in a suitable barrel length. It originally came out in a Smith with an 8 3/8" barrel where its muzzle velocity was very high. A .357 in a 2" barrel isn't much better than a .38 special +P, just a lot more muzzle flash.
A .44 Special revolver is an excellent choice in a personal defense weapon.
|
|
|
|
« Last Edit: August 31, 2009, 09:53:32 AM by solo1 »
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
KW
|
|
« Reply #8 on: August 31, 2009, 06:02:50 AM » |
|
The only thing I would add to all of the above is; since you already have a 357, from a “survivalist” ( realist if you prefer) standpoint, I would favor having guns using similar ammo, no? The word 'survivalist' has some ugly connotations these days, but it covers a lot of ground from natural disasters to a oppressive socialist government. . . . Are you set on a wheel gun? I don’t want to start a ‘flame’ about semi versus wheel, but nearly in every category from recoil to capacity, a modern semi-auto beats the snot out of wheel gun. Full Discloser; I only have one wheel gun left. I purchased it in 1981. It’s a Dan Wesson 357 “Pistol Pack.” It came in a velvet liner suitcase with 4 interchangeable barrels (two, four, six, and eight) and a belt buckle. The only barrels I ever shot from are the 2 and 8 and I never used the buckle  . Zebra wood grips and a bright blue finish! I LOVE THAT GUN. It’s easily the most beautiful gun I’ve ever own or even seen for that mater. Also, My wife has a Taurus P-85 with gold inlays. She said it was “pretty” when we got it for her. The darn thing has about doubled in price, so I told her she’s picking out my next gun  |
|
|
|
« Last Edit: August 31, 2009, 09:09:58 AM by KW »
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
V98
|
|
« Reply #9 on: August 31, 2009, 06:16:47 AM » |
|
I firmly believe that when in doubt "GO HEAVY". Bullet weight that is. The problem with speedy smaller bullets is because of a lack in mass, they also slow down fast which equates to less penetration. FBI ballistics tests prove this. That is why they have chosen the 147 grain again as their 9mm load. Rules of thumb that were true 10yrs ago may be totally different now. Ammo manufacturers are constantly working on the "latest and greatest" so it's tough to sift through what's true and what's marketing hype. Hence my belief in go heavy, it's proven when comparing apples to apples. I've wondered about the .44 special but have no experience with it so didn't want to comment on that. The only issue I see so far is a lack of choices and availability in ammo. That will change if it becomes more popular.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Varmintmist
|
|
« Reply #10 on: August 31, 2009, 07:06:58 AM » |
|
First, there is no stopping power worth considering in a handgun sized package. If you want to stop stuff, get a rifle or shotgun. Anything from a 22lr up will punch holes in people and that will make them want to quit.
Second, how much is your wife going to shoot? If she can handle the 357 in a snubbie thats great. If she fires 5 a year, thats not enough. She would be better off with a 38 snubbie. My wife is a shooter and took the NRA instructor classes. She handles a full sized 1911 better than most men I have seen shoot, including people who SHOULD be able to shoot. She carries a Ruger SP101 with 125 gr bullets, but is only good for about 20 at a range session. I load her stuff that is lighter for longer sessions. Full house 357's will bark big time and snap a snubbie back into the web of your hand hard. I dont fire the thing with anything over 125's, it is just UNfun. opinion, If you can find one, Tarus 98 5 shot 38 NOT +P. Not a fan of Tarus, but the few of these I have fired are everything they need to be. Skip the Titanium ones unless she is a shooter. They are light and snappy even with regular 38's. If she isnt a shooter, revolver is a good way to go. Less to think about, less to go wrong, less to learn. Look at all of the people who shoot themselves with Glocks, the pistol that solved the problem with spending money on training. It is "idiot proof" to use, not to handle though.
The deal is, have a gun and know how to use it. 3 from a 38 center of mass beats 100 misses from a Mag-du-juor
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.
Churchill
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
KW
|
|
« Reply #13 on: August 31, 2009, 09:10:59 AM » |
|
Bob, Stick with what your bride is comfortable with KW |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
