Here we go again, another story of vibration in drivetrain.

[fordmano]

OK 99 I/S about 39K miles. Rear wheel was installed around 7-8K ago splines were lubed and looked fine. Did not pull the pinion cup apart did inspect the U-Joint and seemed fine at that time also installed new bearing in rear and front wheels. Did the double bearing thing in the rear wheel. all bearings where quality USA made bearing from a respectable local Bearing supply house. There has been no noticeable slippage or chatter from the clutches.

Very noticeable vibration at almost any speed during Deceleration.
Has now started making a ticking/pop/cracking/clanging sound in any gear at random speed.
All noise and noticeable vibration go away when clutch lever is pulled in toward grip.
Sound normal so far when at idle out of gear (some slight normal noise).

First thought was U-Joint, but after it got pretty bad and the odd ticking/pop/cracking/clanging started I actually paid closer attention and realized when clutch is pulled in the noise goes away.

Ideas, opinions & suggestions very welcomed. ???
I am up against a wall of time, the Hollister 4th of July rally is next weekend and if this isn't fixed then I am either staying home or having to take the truck....

Should I go ahead and order a U-Joint and or Clutch assembly. And do you think I can get them shipped fast enough to finish repairs by next Friday Morning?

Anyone have part numbers for these possible items?

Thanks a bunch for any suggestion and or advise. 

Yes I have used the search tool, yes I have read at least 5 different threads on similar drive-line vibration stories and it seems most common are either U-Joint or Clutch assembly.

[Michvalk]

Look at the pinion cup and driveshaft. Sounds more like that to me

[Patrick]

I too think I would take it apart and have a good look at everything. When putting it back together make sure to snug up the axle then tighten the 4 case bolts.




Generally when a clutch issue rears its ugly head, its felt as a jerking/lurching when launching. If the is still operating smoothly I would doubt you have a clutch issue. Strange things can happen though.

[fordmano]

Thanks guys, at least if it is the pinion cup then that is a bit easier than the Clutch assembly.
I am worried that the new ticking/pop/cracking/clanging sound might be the rivets coming apart  in the clutch assembly.

Gonna try and get her up on Jacks this morning or at least this afternoon, this is one of those times working night shift sucks.

[Chrisj CMA]

Thanks guys, at least if it is the pinion cup then that is a bit easier than the Clutch assembly.
I am worried that the new ticking/pop/cracking/clanging sound might be the rivets coming apart  in the clutch assembly.

Gonna try and get her up on Jacks this morning or at least this afternoon, this is one of those times working night shift sucks.

If clutch rivets were failing that bad (sounds you describe) I doubt the pull of the clutch handle would feel "NORMAL" or even go all the way to the grip easily.

[Momz]

At 39K I would doubt that the clutch rivets are shot.
However if the sound is lessened when you pull in your clutch lever,....I'd suspect a problem with the clutch slave cylinder. An easy fix and a known issue on some early Valks. 

[Ricky-D]

Pulling in the clutch lever takes the strain off the u-joint and pinion cup assy. That is the reason

the noise diminishes. This would indicate where the problem is located.

***

[O-B-1]

Sounds like the last few miles before my pinion cup and driveline decided they were not talking to each other anymore. They rather "clanged" and made the noises you are speaking of.

My clutch just slipped when accelerating in fifth gear, at times teh clutch lever would hang halfway in (attribute that to the rivets coming out in the dampener plate).

Pulling in the clutch lever removes the forces on the drive-train behind the clutch, allowing the clashing parts to just coast with each other.

Mty u-joint is failing. I have a high frequency vibration in the highway pegs. It "clunks" when accelerating or decelerating. WHen I was climbing the Great Divide grade with a heavy load, I could hear noise coming from the u-joint area.

If the u-joint was bad enough to clang and etc, I would think you would have felt the play in it.

I would disassemble the back end and check the pinion cup and drive-line splines. Watch for teh thrust washer when disassembling. Make sure one goes back in.

[fordmano]

Thanks all of ya!

I got her up on 4 jack stands last night before I left out for work. Managed to pull the bags and I have everything else unbolted and the wheel is ready to pull out of differential. Hopefully this afternoon I can get it pulled the rest of the way apart and figure out what is the BROKED stuff.

[longrider]

Ricky-D is right.  You must remove the u-joint to fully check out its movement.  Mine was tight and partially seized.  That is why I had vibration in mine a couple years ago.  Lube all splines when assembling

[Willow]

Like so many others my money would be on the pinion with U-joint as a second.

[fordmano]

Well she is all pulled apart, and things are better than expected and some are really bad.

Ding ding ding those who said pinion cup are partially correct, it is worn and associated parts will be replaced. This who said U-Joint are the big winners. U-joint is blown up I will post picture tonight from work since I am on my phone right now. Thanks everyone for the help it's appreciated. 

So I have pinion cup and drive shaft question, how much movement should be in the connection? The drive shaft would move side to side actually more of a wiggle the amount of deflection on the U-Joint side while shaft is still in the pinion cup.
I might have some sort of engine oil leak? Underside is filthy from oil and grime and oil is a little low on the stick I still have oil touching the stick but only by about 1/8".

Thanks again pictures should be up before morning.

[fordmano]

Where or from who is the fastest way to get the needed parts for this task. I have until next Friday to get it back together. Any one have some new or good spares than I can talk you out of? Of course I really man buy from you.


Thanks

[The emperor has no clothes]

So it's both the pinion cup and shaft plus the u-joint are toast ?

[fordmano]

The U-Joint is BLOWED THE HECK UP. The Drive shaft definitely has some wear and the Cup also has a fare amount of wear.
So it looks like for safety I will replace all 3 and the associated split ring and seal on the shaft.

[fordmano]

Are these the holes that need to be kept cleaned out for lubrication of the pinion cup splines?

[The emperor has no clothes]

Whoa, that U-joint is in a bad way ! The pinion and driveshaft don't look that bad, but I can see the point in doing them now. Yes those the holes in the cup for lubrication. But make sure you don't just rely on that. Lube them well.

[fordmano]

Thanks meathead, yes I will use an ample amount of grease on all friction points.
I guess I never actually serviced the Pinion Cup, I say that because I don't remember seeing the inside of it or that end of the drive shaft before. I have had the U-Joint out a couple years ago.

Moly Grease? ???
No moly paste, like GuardDog? ???

I actually feel very lucky I had that much warning and caught the U-Joint in time and didn't end up on the side of the highway or off in a ditch.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Yeah that u-joint looks like it's only got a couple more miles in it. I believe it's moly grease in the pinion. I was using paste and it was pointed out to me it's supposed to be grease. I put it on the shaft and inside the cup. On the shaft end that goes in the u-joint I use the Honda moly60. Removing the circlip and spring is a pain in the butt for one person. If you can get someone to help I would. Somebody made a jig to hold it in place for removal. You might find that in a search.

[fordmano]

Now the problem is time, I don't have any extra time.
I got the approval from the accountant (aka: wife) to get it fixed pronto.
But if I order parts tonight can't guarantee they will ship and arrive in time, or wait until Monday and see if local shops have or can get quickly but then that will definitely push delivery date out farther for any online orders if the locals cant supply me with what I need.
I guess if push comes to shove I could reuse the drive shaft and pinion for the rally and swap that out later (next week) 

[The emperor has no clothes]

Now the problem is time, I don't have any extra time.
I got the approval from the accountant (aka: wife) to get it fixed pronto.
But if I order parts tonight can't guarantee they will ship and arrive in time, or wait until Monday and see if local shops have or can get quickly but then that will definitely push delivery date out farther for any online orders if the locals cant supply me with what I need.
I guess if push comes to shove I could reuse the drive shaft and pinion for the rally and swap that out later (next week) 

I doubt the locals will have them in stock. Try a place called ProCaliber. A lot of guys say they are the cheapest .

[fordmano]

Thanks, in this case unfortunately the time is more important than the money to an extent.

I just checked and the U-Joint is about $13.xx cheaper than anything else I saw.
Drive shaft is about $5.xx cheaper
Pinion Cup $4.xx cheaper
The stopper ring is $xx.60 cheaper
And the oil seal is about $xx.60 cheaper also

BUT they charge shipping and Ron Ayers did not, so this place ends up being about the same or a couple bucks more. DANG Thought I had a winna winna chicken dinna.

[heavyd]

That driveshaft and pinion looks a lot better than mine, which is why I am waiting for parts that will hopefully be here tomorrow so I can be on the road by Thursday night. If those were mine, I would throw them in the spare parts bin as a backup. I am replacing my u-joint while I'm in there, but I hope it doesn't look anything like yours.

[Steve K (IA)]

Thanks, in this case unfortunately the time is more important than the money to an extent.

I just checked and the U-Joint is about $13.xx cheaper than anything else I saw.
Drive shaft is about $5.xx cheaper
Pinion Cup $4.xx cheaper
The stopper ring is $xx.60 cheaper
And the oil seal is about $xx.60 cheaper also

BUT they charge shipping and Ron Ayers did not, so this place ends up being about the same or a couple bucks more. DANG Thought I had a winna winna chicken dinna.

Can you contact the seller to see if you could get Next Day or 2nd Day delivery?  I know it can cost quite a bit, but when time is a factor.....

[John Schmidt]

ProCaliber doen't charge shipping on orders over $99, and they're in Washington state.

[RonW]

Would a faulty u-joint wear out the pinion cup & driveshaft gear prematurely? I imagine it would, but anything definitive?

[sandy]

I sent you an email with my parts for you. Do you need them?

[fordmano]

Thanks Sandy, I didn't get any email that I could find. I checked all my accounts even two that are not shared on this forum. I appreciate the effort or offer but again I didn't find an email from you. I think I have been saved by one of my local vendors Santa Clara Cycle accessories has promised me the parts will be in house by end of day Wednesday I didn't get them cheap but for all the parts and overnight shipping it totaled out at right at $300.xx so that's the drive shaft pinion cup the ujoint the split ring on the drive shaft and the oil seal also.

Thank you so much for trying to help a brother out its appreciated beyond belief. And thank you all so much for the information and advice it is all greatly appreciated. Fingers crossed the parts show up tomorrow and if they do I will be good to go by Friday morning.

Thanks to all!



Matt

[fordmano]

John Schmidt, I called ProCaliper. They did not have the parts in stock they would have to Oder them from Honda America and wouldn't be able to get them before middle of next week. But you are correct over $99 is free shipping and they were the cheapest anywhere.

Thanks Buddy!

[Gryphon Rider]

I went to Inzane and back for two years in a row with drive shaft / pinion cup splines that looked worse than those.  I have photos showing them last year before Inzane and this year before Inzane.  See here (scroll way down for this year's photos):
http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,68142.0.html

Those splines require 3% moly grease.

[The emperor has no clothes]

I agree with Gryphon Rider. The shaft and pinion isn't that bad. I would either keep them on and hang on to your new ones or keep the used ones as spares. But don't mix the new shaft with the old pinion and vice versa. And now I remember it was G.R. that set me straight on the pinion lube 

[Ricky-D]

You can forget about the stopper ring. It's not really necessary to have it.

Of course, if you're fearful the drive shaft might fall out when you hold

the pumpkin upside down, definitely be sure to have it there.

***

[fordmano]

Thanks again guys, figure I will put the new parts in and keep the old ones as spares as suggested.

I think the green grease I used in the past is 3% moly so I should be safe with that.

Really appreciate the help on this forum.

[fordmano]

WOOOOOOOOoooooHOOOOOOOoooo!

All my parts came in yesterday afternoon, it was a bit too late for me to get much of anything done. I did get the Drive shaft re-assembled and the pinion cup installed on the pumpkin.
I am  off work in about 5.5 hours from now and then fly home and get started on the assembly of the bike..

I know I paid a bit too much but with the overnight shipping and all it wasn't really bad $309.xx that's all the parts and the shipping.
So my Guy Doug Sheid and his team over at Santa Clara Cycle Accessories came through in a BIG way and saved my rally adventure.

[The emperor has no clothes]

 , I would say the prices are pretty good.

[fordmano]

Yep, Greed.
I wasn't trying to short change the guys but I gave them a copy of my cart printed from RonAyers really just so they could just simply order by part number. I wasn't even thinking about the prices and When I picked up the parts I was kinda shocked at the prices and Doug said well I tried to match the prices you had the best I could. So told him he would definately continue to get my business and a completely positive recommendation to anyone looking for parts for just about anything.   

I am taking a break from the reassembly about 1/2 done ujoint is back in diff and drive shaft in place everything greased wheel back on brake assemy back in place,,,  sure am glad I started typing this since I had forgotten about tightening the 4 diff to swing arm nuts. Gotta do some clean up since I have grease and horrible grime everywhere more now than when I started I managed to get grease and or gunk on every dang part of the bike.


Thanks again all, your the bestest of the bestest!