Oil Filter Comparisons....

[AdrianR]

I have now changed the oil twice on my new Valkyrie.

The first oil filter was the stock Honda.  The second was a Fram PH1067A motorcycle filter, and lastly, and the one I just installed, was the Purolater automotive filter...

Comparing the filter only by touch..these were my observations.

The Honda filter was the heaviest/sturdiest feeling...yet was the most shallow/short.  The second heaviest filter was the Fram, and was deeper (longer) then the Honda filter...and lastly the Purolater was the cheapest feeling..yet the longest.

The Purolater filter was also the cheapest...$5.00 and change...

[rogueleader_92]

Hand full of things I never skimp on fluids, filters, tires, breaks and batteries.

I have found you really do get what you pay for. If your the type of guy to replace your oil every few months then going cheep might be ok but I'm in the camp of following the manufacturer recommendations on intervals and going with better parts/fluids than stock.

[Robert]

How about putting some teeth behind the oil filter thing instead of opinions. I will post a couple of articles that will explain many things about oil filters. One article cuts them apart the other does pressure tests. So you have everything covered. Very informative, very complete and thorough. I just changed mine at 450 to Mobil 1 10/40 motorcycle oil, I am going to change it again at 1000, then 1500 then normal changes from there.


http://gl1800riders.com/forums/showthread.php?322779-Oil-Filter-PSI-Test-Results
http://oilfilterdata.com/index.php
http://goldplug.com/shop/   I will use this for the drain plugs

http://www.calsci.com/motorcycleinfo/FilterXRef.html
http://www.calsci.com/motorcycleinfo/NewBike.html#BreakIn  Also a interesting article on break in

I wanted the best for my bike and have used the Purolator on my 01 without any problems what so ever and even took off a K&N without changing the oil and put on a Pure One and had the oil change shades as the particles were cleaned out of the oil. So when I got my 14 I rechecked my findings and found some of this on the Wing site. It really puts to bed any concern about using the automotive filters on our bikes. The 14610 and the 14612 are essentially the same specs except the 14610 is 3/4 of an inch longer.

[AdrianR]

How about putting some teeth behind the oil filter thing instead of opinions. I will post a couple of articles that will explain many things about oil filters. One article cuts them apart the other does pressure tests. So you have everything covered. Very informative, very complete and thorough. I just changed mine at 450 to Mobil 1 10/40 motorcycle oil and a Purolator Pure One 14610, I am going to change it again at 1000, then 1500 then normal changes from there.


http://gl1800riders.com/forums/showthread.php?322779-Oil-Filter-PSI-Test-Results
http://oilfilterdata.com/index.php
http://goldplug.com/shop/   I will use this for the drain plugs
http://www.leroybeal.net/motorcycles/silverwing/articles/oil-filters/Motorcycle%2520oil%2520filters%2520exposed.pdf
http://www.calsci.com/motorcycleinfo/FilterXRef.html
http://www.calsci.com/motorcycleinfo/NewBike.html#BreakIn  Also a interesting article on break in

I wanted the best for my bike and have used the Purolator on my 01 without any problems what so ever and even took off a K&N without changing the oil and put on a Pure One and had the oil change shades as the particles were cleaned out of the oil. So when I got my 14 I rechecked my findings and found some of this on the Wing site. It really puts to bed any concern about using the automotive filters on our bikes. The 14610 and the 14612 are essentially the same specs except the 14610 is 3/4 of an inch longer that is the one I currently use. Did not have to remove any cowl parts just pulled the plug unscrewed the filter. Put the new one in and the plug refill easy.

It's cool man...just made simple visual/feel observations..so I guess, according to the data you've posted, a heavier oil filter does not necessarily mean better... This is good news knowing that I can get quality oil and filters at my local Meijer store at huge discounts....saving money is always good man...hence why I buy Hondas..awesome, well designed *motorcycles* at reasonable prices..

[WintrSol]

Just a warning for those running Purolator Pure One filters, from the Purolator web site http://www.purolatorautofilters.net/products/pages/powersportsfilters.aspx:
"What About PureONE

If you're thinking you want to install a PureONE oil filter on your bike, please think again. PureONE oil filters are designed for vehicles, not bikes. Because of PureONE's high efficiency, the motorcycle oil pump may not be able to handle the pressure. The Purolator motorcycle filter line is designed to meet the specific needs of a bike; therefore we highly recommend the use of a Purolator ML filter over a PureONE oil filter."

[Robert]

Just a warning for those running Purolator Pure One filters, from the Purolator web site http://www.purolatorautofilters.net/products/pages/powersportsfilters.aspx:
"What About PureONE

If you're thinking you want to install a PureONE oil filter on your bike, please think again. PureONE oil filters are designed for vehicles, not bikes. Because of PureONE's high efficiency, the motorcycle oil pump may not be able to handle the pressure. The Purolator motorcycle filter line is designed to meet the specific needs of a bike; therefore we highly recommend the use of a Purolator ML filter over a PureONE oil filter."

Other than what you have posted from Purolator what is your experience or what is your expertise that you can say there will be a problem with any certainty? The other question is did you take time to look at any of the information provided?

[goldstar903]

Purolator PL14610/PL14612 are made in America. The Purolator ML16817 is made in China!   Big profit margin. You decide...

From the WWW.calsci.com/ website

Filter Bypass

Filters also have relief or bypass valves. These valves are set to trigger if the filter element is making too large a pressure drop. Normally, this would be because it is clogged, however on an engine with a very high flow oil pump this can also happen if the oil is very cold. Motorcycles do not have high- flow oil pumps. These relief valves are set for different pressures, and sometimes a tech or mechanic will tell you that it's important that the relief valve have the correct rating. It's not. These valves are very low-precision devices, and their pop- off values are different from each other even in identical filters of the same brand. I have spoken with engineers (not techs) at AMS, Purolator, Mobil, and Champion, and not one of them knows of a single reason why you can't use a car filter on a motorcycle. In fact, not one of them could quote me a single pop-off valve pressure rating off the tops of their heads. They did not consider this an interesting or important topic until I brought it up. When the relief valve is open, the oil is going around the filter element and not being filtered at all. If your relief valve ever opens up you're either using a really cheap oil on a really cold day, or you haven't changed your oil filter since the last time you saw Robert E. Lee. Because filters can clog up and saturate with junk, your oil filter should be changed about every 5,000 miles. In fact, if you are using an advanced synthetic oil, you should probably change your oil filter about twice as often as you change your oil.

I've run Shell Rotella 5W-40 full synthetic in all my vehicles, as well as PL14612's for years with no problems so far.

[WintrSol]

Other than what you have posted from Purolator what is your experience or what is your expertise that you can say there will be a problem with any certainty? The other question is did you take time to look at any of the information provided?

I can't say that their warning applies to the Valkyrie engine, but V-twins are susceptible to oil starvation in the top end; I wouldn't use this filter in my Suzuki because of the pressure drop. The same is likely true for the I4 and parallel twins, but the only parallel twin I ride has no conventional filter; it does have oiling issues in the top end, though.

The boxer layout is much like a car engine, so probably won't have an issue. Only time would tell. The real problem is if you had an engine problem that was possibly oil related, while under warranty, the dealer may not honor it if you are running an auto filter. That has been reported with HD dealers.

[Robert]

Just pulled this info forward and it takes only a few minutes to change the oil and filter with no front cover removal necessary even with the longer Purolator filter. I use the Purolator PL14610 with no problems with the Mobil One oil, Honda changed the application of its oil filters to include more models with less filters.

[dinosnake]

Here's an internal comparison of major oil filters

http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/FilterStudy.html

However, I would listen to Purolator and not use the PureONE line, I would say they know best.  Me, I've always used OEM filters.

[AdrianR]

. I use the Purolator PL14610 with no problems with the Mobil One oil, Honda changed the application of its oil filters to include more models with less filters.

Hey Bob, are you using Mobil 1 'car oil'??

[Robert]

. I use the Purolator PL14610 with no problems with the Mobil One oil, Honda changed the application of its oil filters to include more models with less filters.

Hey Bob, are you using Mobil 1 'car oil'??

Nope Mobil One 10w40 motorcycle oil, but I did try something a bit different the last change. I used 3 qts of the 10/40 and 1 qt of the 20/50, the specs on the 20/50 are so much better.

[Robert]

If you want to see the oil filters cut up then here ya go, stock Honda filter on the left and the longer Pure one PL14610 on the right. Even if the Pure one is more restrictive it has probably about triple the surface area that the stock filter does. In part because the stock filter where the pleats are joined at the top and bottom of the filter does not filter oil. So effectively you have to take off another 1/4 inch of filter material so the stock filter is really small. The oil bypass valve in the Pure One is not seen here. The filter material for the Honda filter is more of a fibrous weave where as the Pure One is more like a finer weave cellulose material. These pics along with the specs and test info along with using the same filter on my 1500 and testimonies from Wing riders really gave me all the info I needed to put my personal fears to rest and use the Pure One. Each has to make their own choice, but make it informed. It is known that no matter what filter you choose the bikes seem to last.

This post on the Goldwing site is very good and the guy does a pressure  and flow test of the filters both hot and cold. Plus gives the micron rating.
http://gl1800riders.com/forums/showthread.php?322779-Oil-Filter-PSI-Test-Results





Stock filter


Pureone  You get an idea of size with the Honda one my finger nail is abou half the filter where as the Pure one its about an 1/4

[goldstar903]

Purolator PL14610/PL14612 are made in America. The Purolator ML16817 (motorcycle) is made in China! Big profit margin between them!. Purolator doesn't know best! You decide... And Honda oil filters are junk!

From the WWW.calsci.com/ website

[dans2014]

  While under warranty you better use Honda oem. Guess why? You are giving a warranty claim to Honda a huge reason to refuse you with after market filters and oil

[dinosnake]

While under warranty you better use Honda oem. Guess why? You are giving a warranty claim to Honda a huge reason to refuse you with after market filters and oil

+1

[Robert]

The Pure One filter maybe, but after market filters designed to oem specs and the oil no way they can refuse you, it meets the standard that's all that's necessary, and required by law.

[F6Dave]

Check out the Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act.  As I remember, if a manufacturer requires a certain maintenance product be used in order to make a warranty claim, they have to provide the product for free.  They can only require that you maintain your vehicle with products that meet industry specs.

[dinosnake]

Check out the Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act.  As I remember, if a manufacturer requires a certain maintenance product be used in order to make a warranty claim, they have to provide the product for free.  They can only require that you maintain your vehicle with products that meet industry specs.

And therein lies the grey area - does a car oil filter "meet [motorcycle] industry specs"?  

They (Honda) might say "Yes", or then again they might say "No", deny a claim thereby either costing you money or causing you grief as you dispute the decision.  The problem is that the "No" means that it will be up to you to prove otherwise, and that can turn into a onerous burden - does anyone have accurate specs on these alternative filters versus the OEM product?

My take:

The oil filter debate has been going on for a long, long time.  I knew about the oil filter debate coming from my Vulcan, which is where I picked up that oil filter comparison web page.  After all that analysis one thing struck me: nobody could tell me the actual specs to compare the alternative filter's bypass valve to the OEM one; nobody could tell me internal pressure resistance of alternative vs. OEM.  They could say 'The OEM is constructed like (x), and this one is constructed like (y)', but not a single source could tell me 'The OEM valve operates at pressure (a) while the[se] operate at pressure (b), as precisely relates to [this vehicle] in question'.  Personally I decided: I wasn't willing to take that chance.

IMHO: You've spent anywhere from $12,000 to $18,000, plus accessories, for this vehicle.  Spending an extra $8 (max) per oil change to stay with the OEM filter isn't that much of a stretch, now is it?  I found it a bit disconcerting that the OEM filter is so 'small', the same size as standard motorcycle filters for such a large, 1800cc flat-6 engine, but if Honda feels that such a filter is adequate (judging by the recommended oil change intervals) who am I to object?  If something goes wrong (and why should it?  The engine has been road-tested with this filter system for over a decade!) I can show Honda "I followed your recommendations to the letter, and then some!" (because I change oil early), and they can't say a thing.

Anyway, that's me mouthing off.  

[goldstar903]

Do you do your own oil changes? If so, how are you going to prove that you used Honda oil and filters all along? And therein lies the Black and White!

[98valk]

Check out the Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act.  As I remember, if a manufacturer requires a certain maintenance product be used in order to make a warranty claim, they have to provide the product for free.  They can only require that you maintain your vehicle with products that meet industry specs.

And therein lies the grey area - does a car oil filter "meet [motorcycle] industry specs"?  

They (Honda) might say "Yes", or then again they might say "No", deny a claim thereby either costing you money or causing you grief as you dispute the decision.  The problem is that the "No" means that it will be up to you to prove otherwise, and that can turn into a onerous burden - does anyone have accurate specs on these alternative filters versus the OEM product?

My take:

The oil filter debate has been going on for a long, long time.  I knew about the oil filter debate coming from my Vulcan, which is where I picked up that oil filter comparison web page.  After all that analysis one thing struck me: nobody could tell me the actual specs to compare the alternative filter's bypass valve to the OEM one; nobody could tell me internal pressure resistance of alternative vs. OEM.  They could say 'The OEM is constructed like (x), and this one is constructed like (y)', but not a single source could tell me 'The OEM valve operates at pressure (a) while the[se] operate at pressure (b), as precisely relates to [this vehicle] in question'.  Personally I decided: I wasn't willing to take that chance.

IMHO: You've spent anywhere from $12,000 to $18,000, plus accessories, for this vehicle.  Spending an extra $8 (max) per oil change to stay with the OEM filter isn't that much of a stretch, now is it?  I found it a bit disconcerting that the OEM filter is so 'small', the same size as standard motorcycle filters for such a large, 1800cc flat-6 engine, but if Honda feels that such a filter is adequate (judging by the recommended oil change intervals) who am I to object?  If something goes wrong (and why should it?  The engine has been road-tested with this filter system for over a decade!) I can show Honda "I followed your recommendations to the letter, and then some!" (because I change oil early), and they can't say a thing.

Anyway, that's me mouthing off.  

wixfilter site lists all of the bypass filter pressures, that is all that matters btwn a car filter and a m/c filter for if it will work or not.  the car filters that have been used on the valkyrie1500 work on the GL1800.  I use an over sized diameter Pure1 for greater flow, less differential pressure and more filter media on my valkyrie1500. I use an Autometer oil pressure gauge. as per the manual going down the hwy 50psi when cold or higher rpms will see 70 psi just like the manual states. the V1500 has two oil pumps, I would imagine that the V1800 also has two.

[F6Dave]

I've been a member of this site for over a decade.  I can't remember a single engine failure due to the oil or oil filter.  And, I can't remember anyone posting info about a single case where Honda denied a warranty claim due to the oil or filter used.

I have bigger things to worry about.  I'll continue using oils and filters that are superior to Honda's OEM products, and cost less.  Where Honda products are better (like brake pads), I won't hesitate to use them.

[Robert]

I've been a member of this site for over a decade.  I can't remember a single engine failure due to the oil or oil filter.  And, I can't remember anyone posting info about a single case where Honda denied a warranty claim due to the oil or filter used.

I have bigger things to worry about.  I'll continue using oils and filters that are superior to Honda's OEM products, and cost less.  Where Honda products are better (like brake pads), I won't hesitate to use them.

AGREED 

This also goes for the OEM Honda stuff that although doesn't filter as well and costs more the bikes that use them have gone the distance.  Just one last thought, if the manufacturer always knew what was best then why do we have so many warranty claims on cars and bikes? Why are parts designed changed on replacement parts or new models? Plus why did it take Honda so many years to get rid of all the bugs in the Goldwing design?

[goldstar903]

Agreed! Honda doesn't want to immortalize their vehicles. They're in the business of selling them. 

[cookiedough]

Hyundai dealers tried pulling the B.S. over my eyes as well stating Hyundai mfg. will NOT honor the warranty if you have engine failure blaming the oil filter NOT being Hyundai's which the same exact one is used on several vehicles they have in their lineup.  I compared Hyundai's oil filter to others and is very good quality and not much more in price, but will use what I want to use since ALL the ones I use meet industry specs.  Same goes for oil.  Hyundai recommends Quaker State, but if I want to use Valvoline or Mobil 1 or Pennzoil,  I will. 

Can Am (for my ATV's) at the dealer tried pulling the same scare tactics on me and it won't work.  The dealers when they do this make me MORE want to use something else, especially since their Can Am branded oil and oil filters are 15 bucks each.   Rip off!

I feel HOW you change the oil and at what intervals is the key,  NOT what brand of oil and oil filter you use. 

[Robert]

Hyundai dealers tried pulling the B.S. over my eyes as well stating Hyundai mfg. will NOT honor the warranty if you have engine failure blaming the oil filter NOT being Hyundai's which the same exact one is used on several vehicles they have in their lineup.  I compared Hyundai's oil filter to others and is very good quality and not much more in price, but will use what I want to use since ALL the ones I use meet industry specs.  Same goes for oil.  Hyundai recommends Quaker State, but if I want to use Valvoline or Mobil 1 or Pennzoil,  I will. 

Can Am (for my ATV's) at the dealer tried pulling the same scare tactics on me and it won't work.  The dealers when they do this make me MORE want to use something else, especially since their Can Am branded oil and oil filters are 15 bucks each.   Rip off!

I feel HOW you change the oil and at what intervals is the key,  NOT what brand of oil and oil filter you use. 

Ive known a few others that had trouble with Hyundai warranty and not because of filters. They look for reasons to keep warranty costs down and do some pretty strange things to keep it that way.

[dans2014]

  Honda oem filters and Honda full synthetic oil thank you very much!!!