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enginesludge
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« on: June 30, 2015, 12:53:04 PM » |
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I know this has been discussed, but; I like to just do a sanity check on my rear tire. I purchased the 1500 with a General Altima HP 205/60 R16 92V rear tire. It is wide and flat on the bottom. The seller told me this was a cool modification and it sure looks good.
Now, when I cruise slowly down the drive way or around a tight corner it seems like I end up forcing the steering wheel more than leaning then I kind of wobble or rock left and right when I straighten out. I am a new rider after years away from this. For better or worse, I went whole hog and got a soft tail and sportster. I dont have this problem with the soft tail, but I am not yet confident on either of the bigger bikes. I wish I had an hour or two riding today before I ask.
I just dont know is it me or is the rear tire a little funky to get used to?
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hubcapsc
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Posts: 16781
upstate
South Carolina
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« Reply #1 on: June 30, 2015, 12:56:00 PM » |
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It will be funky. Some of our best mountain riders use car tires. I use motorcycle tires  -Mike |
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« Reply #2 on: June 30, 2015, 01:01:28 PM » |
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It will be funky. Some of our best mountain riders use car tires. I use motorcycle tires -Mike +1, they are different. The slow speed handling is the only negative in my opinion. |
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enginesludge
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« Reply #3 on: June 30, 2015, 01:21:33 PM » |
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Good to know. And, I assume that is an appropriate tire for this modification. I will try and live with it.
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« Reply #4 on: June 30, 2015, 01:45:43 PM » |
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Good to know. And, I assume that is an appropriate tire for this modification. I will try and live with it.
I haven't used that tire but it seems pretty square to me. I got used to car tires pretty quick but they are not for everybody. If it's still weird to you in a month I would switch to a M/C tire. |
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BradValk48237
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« Reply #5 on: June 30, 2015, 01:54:18 PM » |
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Wait till you hit proved pavement.......  Normal for slow speeds...... Falken Ziex here B |
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enginesludge
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« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2015, 02:01:37 PM » |
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I wonder if a little more pressure might round it out. Or what is the proper pressure? What would you advise for front & rear pressure with best slow handling in mind?
I do have the owners book, but I like to ask those with experience with this combination, and the manual might not apply. I am sure there is some max psi stamped on the tire. I did not look.
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The emperor has no clothes
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« Reply #7 on: June 30, 2015, 02:10:03 PM » |
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I wonder if a little more pressure might round it out. Or what is the proper pressure? What would you advise for front & rear pressure with best slow handling in mind?
I do have the owners book, but I like to ask those with experience with this combination, and the manual might not apply. I am sure there is some max psi stamped on the tire. I did not look.
Well for slow speed handling a low pressure will work better but then it would be unsafe at speed. I run mine at 34 lbs. on the front most run them at 42-45 lbs. I do 42. Also something else to look at is the tire valves. If it has the OEM valve stems I would highly recommend the 90* metal valve stems. |
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« Last Edit: June 30, 2015, 02:12:17 PM by meathead »
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R J
Member
Posts: 13380
DS-0009 ...... # 173
Des Moines, IA
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« Reply #8 on: June 30, 2015, 02:11:27 PM » |
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Before I converted MGM to a Trike, I run 45 to 50 in the front tire and 36 in the rear.
You will have to ge used to that flip flop it gives you at the start.
It will settle in in a few hundred miles.
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Jess from VA
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« Reply #9 on: June 30, 2015, 02:28:53 PM » |
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Try 40psi in that Altimax (to start). Harder will make it turn easier, and learn easier (and push easier).
Too much air can wear the center out over time, but don't worry about that for starters.
With car tires, you still lean, but the lean does not do it all for you like on bike tires; you need to turn the bars too. Think of it as the difference between power steering (bike tire) and manual steering (car tire). On long sweepers at speed, the low side flexed sidewall will want to stand the bike up straight; so you hold the bars to hold it in the turn. It is not fatiguing or hard, just a pound or two of pressure instead of pure neutral steering. Counter steering is good too.
Also, you will get a few extra hops and wobbles on car tires. On uneven pavement or manhole covers (etc), the bigger contact patch touches more unevenness, and transfers it up to the rider. Just ignore it, and keep riding, you are not falling over.
It takes a little practice. Run down to a big parking lot and do some slow speed stuff. It is not hard, it is just a bit different.
The 205 60 is the most used car tire.
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« Last Edit: June 30, 2015, 02:32:30 PM by Jess from VA »
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Gryphon Rider
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Posts: 5227
2000 Tourer
Calgary, Alberta
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« Reply #10 on: June 30, 2015, 03:06:34 PM » |
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I have the Avon Cobra on the front at 42 PSI, and the General Altimax HP 205/60R16 on the back, at 35 PSI, and the tread is wearing evenly. It works for me. Lower front tire pressure will require more muscle to manoeuvre at slow speeds.
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Daniel Meyer
Member
Posts: 5493
Author. Adventurer. Electrician.
The State of confusion.
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« Reply #11 on: June 30, 2015, 03:09:45 PM » |
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I have the Avon Cobra on the front at 42 PSI, and the General Altimax HP 205/60R16 on the back, at 35 PSI, and the tread is wearing evenly. It works for me. Lower front tire pressure will require more muscle to manoeuvre at slow speeds.
About what I run. |
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CUAgain, Daniel Meyer  |
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mustang071965
Member
Posts: 165
those that dare, Succeed.
monticello Ar
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« Reply #12 on: June 30, 2015, 03:47:49 PM » |
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Have the same tire on my I/S. Its been on the back now for 5 years and over 48,000 miles. Took about 5 miles to get use to it. Will never go back to a mc tire. Run 38 psi. Still looks new. Been on the dragon. And over cal state 158. That road is more twisty then any other.
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The emperor has no clothes
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« Reply #13 on: June 30, 2015, 03:55:06 PM » |
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Have the same tire on my I/S. Its been on the back now for 5 years and over 48,000 miles. Took about 5 miles to get use to it. Will never go back to a mc tire. Run 38 psi. Still looks new. Been on the dragon. And over cal state 158. That road is more twisty then any other.
holy crap ! 48 k ? |
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Cracker Jack
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« Reply #14 on: June 30, 2015, 03:59:54 PM » |
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Have the same tire on my I/S. Its been on the back now for 5 years and over 48,000 miles. Took about 5 miles to get use to it. Will never go back to a mc tire. Run 38 psi. Still looks new. Been on the dragon. And over cal state 158. That road is more twisty then any other.
holy crap ! 48 k ? And still looks new! Wow.  |
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Old Geezer Richard
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« Reply #15 on: June 30, 2015, 04:52:59 PM » |
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Hey Mr. engine-sludge , I agree with everything said because I experimented with the Michelin Pilot 205-55-16 tire and it was SMOOTH and I got 40,000 miles on the Michelin after 5 years of riding and switched over to the Vrederstein 205-60-16 Dutch tire ....... Until I had to make a sharp turn into a parking lot , then I remember ed what everybody said about having to push that handle bar into the turn ..... But after about 500 or so miles , I really used to having a car tire ..... When you run across some rain grooves , imperfections on the asphalt then you'll feel the assignment end wiggle just a little bit because the tire tread is just following the grooves and also depending how aggressive a tread design you have will determine how much wiggle you get ..... But REMEMBER NEWBIE , you ain't gonna fall down !!!!!! The pucker will go away after some Seat Time ..... On my 98 , I run 40 lbs.up front and 38 cold in the car tire because once I go past 40 lbs I can feel all the bumps , so 40 max for me and I will never go back to using those $300 m/c tires again ..... Enjoy the Dark side Newbie Thanks the Geezer  |
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If you don't care where you're going, then you ain't lost , Murphy's Law because wherever you are going to , it ain't going nowhere .... San Antonio,Tx.
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vanagon40
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« Reply #16 on: June 30, 2015, 10:58:41 PM » |
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Yes, the General Altimax might take a little while to get used to. It also depends a lot on the front tire you have. When I had the OEM front tire, I found there was a lot of counter steer necessary. With different front tires, the counter steer went away. I did not get the 48,000 miles reported by the other poster. I did get 28,000 and likely could have pushed for more. I was so satisfied with the Altimax that I replaced it with another. Good luck with whatever you decide.  |
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enginesludge
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« Reply #17 on: July 01, 2015, 02:05:21 AM » |
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The front tire could use replacing. It might be a close call for state safety inspection. It is time. What would you suggest with the current rear? The rear looks like new.
Would that front replacement then run well with a conventional rear, should I decide to go that route later.
if I just go two MC tires, what is a good value tire that handles reasonable for a conservative, fair weather, rider.
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« Last Edit: July 01, 2015, 02:11:52 AM by enginesludge »
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hubcapsc
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Posts: 16781
upstate
South Carolina
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« Reply #18 on: July 01, 2015, 03:18:37 AM » |
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A set of Metzler ME880s, or Avon Cobras or Dunlops of some sort are
the most common MC tires on Valkyries I think...
-Mike
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Pappy!
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« Reply #19 on: July 01, 2015, 04:50:57 AM » |
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Enginesludge - My first Valkyrie came with a car tire as well. First valk for me and first time on a car tire.
I live in Florida but bought the bike in Texas and flew out to ride it home. I had no choice and didn't have a bunch of time back in the saddle after getting back into riding. Much the same as you.
The tire was a Toyo Proxes. Very squared off tire and the low speed handling was as you describe.
Two days and 1150 miles later it was a non-issue. I did replace the tire with a much more rounded profile car tire and the low speed handling improved immensely. We just removed the MC tire and added a car tire to Lesa's Valk and went with a Yokohama Avid Envigor. Has a much more rounded profile. She got used to it in nothing flat after being on nothiing but MC tires for years and years.
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BigBod
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« Reply #20 on: July 01, 2015, 06:15:48 AM » |
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If your just coming back to riding after so many years, I would put a motorcycle tyre on, it will make a massive difference.
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mustang071965
Member
Posts: 165
those that dare, Succeed.
monticello Ar
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« Reply #21 on: July 01, 2015, 08:00:04 AM » |
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yes 48,000 after our trip this year. me and my dad road to Cal to see the big trees . put 5400 miles round trip. the replace sign is not showing. still has half tread left. will replace it this winter due to age. and just to give a shout out to my dad. he turned 79 2 days before the trip. still going strong. but he has triked out his gl1800 sence having both knees replaced. the center of the tire still reads tire replacement monitor. very clearly.
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« Last Edit: July 01, 2015, 08:02:38 AM by mustang071965 »
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Steve K (IA)
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« Reply #22 on: July 01, 2015, 09:29:10 AM » |
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If your just coming back to riding after so many years, I would put a motorcycle tyre on, it will make a massive difference.
This is the best advice you've gotten so far in this post.  |
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Jess from VA
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« Reply #23 on: July 01, 2015, 09:35:51 AM » |
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If your just coming back to riding after so many years, I would put a motorcycle tyre on, it will make a massive difference.
This is the best advice you've gotten so far in this post. Perhaps, but only after putting in 5-700 miles giving the CT a try (unless you really don't like it sooner). PS don't be taking any passengers during your reacquaintance with motorcycles, on any tire. |
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mustang071965
Member
Posts: 165
those that dare, Succeed.
monticello Ar
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« Reply #24 on: July 01, 2015, 10:24:18 AM » |
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after i swapped to a ct. i drove it for about 10 miles. you could feel a difference. but it was a good one. to me it was like the tire back there was saying, ive got this go on. the tire is much better at cornering then a mc tire. you can feel the tire holding the road. at low speeds ( in a parking lot ) below 5 mph i already have my landing gear down ( legs ). the tire really shines at hwy speeds and in curves it will lean just like a mc tire. but it will help you back up coming out of the curve. the trick is finding the right air pressure for the weight of the bike plus you or two up if thats how you ride. its not for every one. you must make the call. i have put a lot of miles on one both flat land and mountains. also the trick if you decide to use a ct. pick one that has a rounded side shoulder and big side tread. been looking at the general as3 but its not offered in 205/60/16.
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gordonv
Member
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VRCC # 31419
Richmond BC
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« Reply #25 on: July 01, 2015, 01:59:18 PM » |
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With regards to getting reacquainted to riding a MC, then buy a spare rear rim with a good MC tire on it, and swap it out.
After you wear that out, swap back to the CT. When you know what you want, MC/CT, you can mount a new tire on that spare rim again, waiting for the next tire change out.
As for the Metzler 880, I'm told they are discontinued. I ordered up an 888 for my GW with an Austone TT on the back. This would be my rear tire of choice, I did not notice any difference from a MC tire. Put 250 miles on the bike, then drove I90 to Inzane XV. 2800 miles with co-pilot.
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Novavalker
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« Reply #26 on: July 01, 2015, 02:01:24 PM » |
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I'm looking for a General Altimax HP 205/60R16 and I tried several places. They told me the tire has been discontinued by General Tire.  |
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“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”
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Jess from VA
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« Reply #27 on: July 01, 2015, 02:14:17 PM » |
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The ME880 is not discontinued.
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Pappy!
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« Reply #28 on: July 01, 2015, 02:22:25 PM » |
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If your just coming back to riding after so many years, I would put a motorcycle tyre on, it will make a massive difference.
This is the best advice you've gotten so far in this post. And what tire do you have on your bike currently? |
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Willow
Administrator
Member
Posts: 16632
Excessive comfort breeds weakness. PttP
Olathe, KS
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« Reply #29 on: July 01, 2015, 03:20:49 PM » |
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They can have a different feel. How much depends greatly upon which tire and what pressure.
I don't know how all my friends are getting away with low pressure. I run forty pounds in my Falken. Anything less causes it to wallow a bit at low speed and wobble some at high speed.
I agree with others. If you're still learning get a made-for-motorcycle tire on the back. When you're a skilled rider experiment with alternate options on the rear.
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HayHauler
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« Reply #30 on: July 01, 2015, 05:00:44 PM » |
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No. Just look at the past few Inzane Bike Rodeos. Only 1 or 2 bikes out of 8 or so competing in the "slalom" or "slow ride" had motorcycle specific tires on them. The car tires kicked their butts.... Chase Kinter will teach you a thing or 3 about slow riding with a car tire. Hay  Jimmyt |
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jdp
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« Reply #31 on: July 01, 2015, 06:15:34 PM » |
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Put a mc tire on it and ride, that slow speed feel isn't worth it, the only reason anyone uses a car tire is the price and it will last a long time, but just use a mc tire and you will love the bike
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The emperor has no clothes
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« Reply #32 on: July 01, 2015, 07:39:24 PM » |
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No. Just look at the past few Inzane Bike Rodeos. Only 1 or 2 bikes out of 8 or so competing in the "slalom" or "slow ride" had motorcycle specific tires on them. The car tires kicked their butts.... Chase Kinter will teach you a thing or 3 about slow riding with a car tire. Hay Jimmyt He is pretty good isn't he ? I was really impressed how he kept his vision focused out a hundred feet or so . |
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Jess from VA
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« Reply #33 on: July 01, 2015, 07:42:09 PM » |
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I don't run a CT for price.
For 37K miles, I'd pay $300 or more per tire, if I had to. I ride it primarily for longevity and durability (and because changing the rear tire every 8K miles is a PITA). And then there's braking, rain riding, traction, and stability. The rather minor irregular riding characteristics of a CT (after a few week learning curve) are small potatoes compared to the solid benefits.
And when a bike tire gets to the last quarter to fifth of it's life, it's a fairly shitty tire... compared to a CT at the same stage of life.
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Steve K (IA)
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« Reply #34 on: July 01, 2015, 09:24:18 PM » |
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If your just coming back to riding after so many years, I would put a motorcycle tyre on, it will make a massive difference.
This is the best advice you've gotten so far in this post. And what tire do you have on your bike currently? Are you asking me? If so, Dunlop E3. Got 20,000 miles out of the last pair and will get the same out of the current pair. I have a lot of confidence in this tire. Rain or shine. I tried the CT thing. 4,000 miles worth. I'd say that was an honest effort. I couldn't take anymore of the terror...scared-me-to-Death!  On 3 occasions it tried to seriously hurt me. Twice it sent me for the ditch. The other time it pushed me across the center line into oncoming traffic. It was uneven pavement and blacktop. A MT doesn't do that. On flat smooth concrete it worked fine. But that was the only time it was okay. |
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Brian
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« Reply #35 on: July 02, 2015, 02:49:44 AM » |
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I run the HP too. At first I hated it going up with the air pressure as some have suggested here. Then I ran across another darksider with this same tire. He told me he runs 30 or 32 two up with no problem. This is were I run mine now with 41 in the front E3. At 30 the tire acts totally different and a lot better now. This is now my second riding season and I don't even think about it anymore. I guess I just got used to it. In one hard braking situation when I had to lock it up this tire kept me straight when I was anticipating the rear end to get squirrelly. I would do another CT no problem now.
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Pappy!
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« Reply #36 on: July 02, 2015, 04:31:22 AM » |
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If your just coming back to riding after so many years, I would put a motorcycle tyre on, it will make a massive difference.
This is the best advice you've gotten so far in this post. And what tire do you have on your bike currently? Are you asking me? If so, Dunlop E3. Got 20,000 miles out of the last pair and will get the same out of the current pair. I have a lot of confidence in this tire. Rain or shine. I tried the CT thing. 4,000 miles worth. I'd say that was an honest effort. I couldn't take anymore of the terror...scared-me-to-Death! On 3 occasions it tried to seriously hurt me. Twice it sent me for the ditch. The other time it pushed me across the center line into oncoming traffic. It was uneven pavement and blacktop. A MT doesn't do that. On flat smooth concrete it worked fine. But that was the only time it was okay. Uh huh.....from that comment I was pretty sure you were only running a motorcycle tire. |
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wct69
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« Reply #37 on: July 02, 2015, 06:18:02 PM » |
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I picked up my 2000 IS in mid April in Des Moines and rode it back to Tampa over the preceeding 3 days and 1700 miles. At the time it was wearing a Dunlop e3 up front that had approximately 8000 miles on it accompanied by a Goodyear triple tread with approximately 20,000 miles on it.
Within the first 30 minutes I was in and out of several parking lots making ready to hit the road getting food and fuel during which time I began to have serious doubts about the survivability of the impending trip. Had I not read extensively about car tires and the associated characteristics I would have been inclined to believe something was wrong with the bike.
Low speed turning was actually very stable and predictable even with the much increased counterstearing demands required by this configuration. However, any pavement irregularities, grooves and in particular gutter transitions from street to driveway were ( and at times still are) terrifying. That is the extent of the darker aspects of my car tire experience thus far.
The ensuing trip home highlighted the beneficial aspects of the car tire.
High speed , straight line stability
Braking effeciency
Exemplary rain handling capabilities (copious amounts of rain)
Cornering stability . There is an aspect to corning that has taken a lot of getting use to.....transitions back to straight path coming out of a corner and transitions from side to side cornering. I can feel the tire set back into it's flat aspect. It makes smooth transitions require effort.
I have concluded, for my own personal preferences, that this GYTT (205/60R16) is too wide.
It has bad low speed manners in critical to day to day areas that should not be tolerated.
I am going to have a good motorcycle tire installed and ride it until it requires changing, which appears to be anywhere from 8000 to 20000 miles.
I want to experience what this bike behaves like in it's original design configuration.
In the interim I will search for a car tire that:
Has a more rounded profile
Is not as wide, 185 to 195 appears to be the size were car tires begin too behave like motorcycle tires whIle still retaining all the car tire benefits.
I replaced the well wore front Dunlop with an Avon Cobra AV71.
I will be having a Cobra AV 72 200/ 60R16 installed here shortly.
I figure the wheel needs to come off every 10000 for maintenance anyway, if I don't like the Cobra it's too easy to change it during the maintenance cycle.
This is my first darkside venture. It has too many benefits to be discarded as dangerous or impractical.
I have concluded that this GYTT is not an appropriate size or profile for this application.
I'm takin' a break......but I will be back to the dark side, it's just too seductive.
Do I have to give up my Dark side sticker during my hyatis?
Edit: I took delivery of the bike with both the front and rear at 42 psi and maintained those values since.
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« Last Edit: July 02, 2015, 06:22:14 PM by wct69 »
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The emperor has no clothes
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« Reply #38 on: July 02, 2015, 07:39:26 PM » |
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I picked up my 2000 IS in mid April in Des Moines and rode it back to Tampa over the preceeding 3 days and 1700 miles. At the time it was wearing a Dunlop e3 up front that had approximately 8000 miles on it accompanied by a Goodyear triple tread with approximately 20,000 miles on it.
Within the first 30 minutes I was in and out of several parking lots making ready to hit the road getting food and fuel during which time I began to have serious doubts about the survivability of the impending trip. Had I not read extensively about car tires and the associated characteristics I would have been inclined to believe something was wrong with the bike.
Low speed turning was actually very stable and predictable even with the much increased counterstearing demands required by this configuration. However, any pavement irregularities, grooves and in particular gutter transitions from street to driveway were ( and at times still are) terrifying. That is the extent of the darker aspects of my car tire experience thus far.
The ensuing trip home highlighted the beneficial aspects of the car tire.
High speed , straight line stability
Braking effeciency
Exemplary rain handling capabilities (copious amounts of rain)
Cornering stability . There is an aspect to corning that has taken a lot of getting use to.....transitions back to straight path coming out of a corner and transitions from side to side cornering. I can feel the tire set back into it's flat aspect. It makes smooth transitions require effort.
I have concluded, for my own personal preferences, that this GYTT (205/60R16) is too wide.
It has bad low speed manners in critical to day to day areas that should not be tolerated.
I am going to have a good motorcycle tire installed and ride it until it requires changing, which appears to be anywhere from 8000 to 20000 miles.
I want to experience what this bike behaves like in it's original design configuration.
In the interim I will search for a car tire that:
Has a more rounded profile
Is not as wide, 185 to 195 appears to be the size were car tires begin too behave like motorcycle tires whIle still retaining all the car tire benefits.
I replaced the well wore front Dunlop with an Avon Cobra AV71.
I will be having a Cobra AV 72 200/ 60R16 installed here shortly.
I figure the wheel needs to come off every 10000 for maintenance anyway, if I don't like the Cobra it's too easy to change it during the maintenance cycle.
This is my first darkside venture. It has too many benefits to be discarded as dangerous or impractical.
I have concluded that this GYTT is not an appropriate size or profile for this application.
I'm takin' a break......but I will be back to the dark side, it's just too seductive.
Do I have to give up my Dark side sticker during my hyatis?
Edit: I took delivery of the bike with both the front and rear at 42 psi and maintained those values since.
My latest tire is a 195/60 Yokohama avid ascend. It's my 3rd car tire and I think I like it best. It's not symmetrical but I can not tell any difference . I run it at 34 lbs. There is nothing wrong with going back to a regular tire though. |
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