Best way to fix rounded off oil drain plug...FIXED!

[biguglyman]

Suggestions please? I got a big old easy-out I'm thinking I can drill a hole up the middle of the plug and go at it that way. Anybody got anything easier or better than that? New plug ordered...

[Chrisj CMA]

Just get a big old beater of a flat head screwdriver and a hammer.  Tap on the screwdriver
With the hammer until you get a groove started.  Then angle the screwdriver so you are tapping in the LOOSENING diecton and you will soon break it free.

Note......works better on a warm engine

[98valk]

 vise grips aka locking pliers, if still a good amount of flats regular jaw will work if not try curved jaws.
put some ice or frozen can of juice etc on nut to help shrink it first.

[indybobm]

A pipe wrench would probably be the easiest way to get it out if you have the room to use it.

[Robert]

Take a chisel or air chisel have to have a good edge on them. Put it on the outer edge of the bolt in the loosening direction and start to tap. Make sure it digs in a bit and does not glance off or just chip the head away. It may take some good hits but it will take seconds to get off and unloosen. If you notice you are shaving off a piece of metal then start somewhere else or angle the chisel so it digs in more.

[Bagger John - #3785]

What rounded it off in the first place?

[Jess from VA]

The plug is obviously fouled up, so fouling it up some more is no big deal.  The key is to try and not foul up the pan threads while getting it out.

[Tfrank59]

are we talking the engine oil drain or the infamous pumpkin gear oil drain?  either way, I'd think vise grips might be the ticket.  sometimes hammering a slightly smaller socket on there works--the hammering (lightly) also might help.  good luck

[Chrisj CMA]

What rounded it off in the first place?

Yes, I hope it wasn't the dirty nasty crescent wrench, those things have no business being within 100 ft of a motorcycle

[highmiles]

The painless way to get it out is buy a set of stud extractors,and they work like a socket .

[biguglyman]

What rounded it off in the first place?

That's a good question. Probably a combination of factors. My sockets are all the multi-faceted type. It was somewhat beat when I bought it. Looks like it may have 2 washers on it. Gotta admit I can be a bit of a gorilla when tightening stuff too...

[Jess from VA]

Two washers and it didn't leak?

[John Schmidt]

Get a set of these, there are smaller sets available with fewer sockets in it. You'll never be sorry you spent the money, you won't use them often but when you need it, it's invaluable.

http://www.sears.com/medco-lis-19270-no-2-bolt-stud-remover/p-SPM7706576603?prdNo=4&blockNo=4&blockType=G4

[horn5390]

I would tig weld a big useless nut from the toolbox tray onto the head of the rounded off one.  fill in the middle of the nut. wait till it cools, then twist away

[WintrSol]

The painless way to get it out is buy a set of stud extractors,and they work like a socket .

+1 These come large enough to remove lug nuts from wheels, and work best with an air hammer.
They look like this: http://www.sears.com/craftsman-10-pc-damaged-bolt-nut-remover-set-low/p-00952166000P?prdNo=2&blockNo=2&blockType=G2

[98valk]

What rounded it off in the first place?

 Gotta admit I can be a bit of a gorilla when tightening stuff too...

that's why the tech manual has torque values for all bolts/nuts and screws. should be followed always.
remember aluminum and stainless steel doesn't like to be over-tightened.

and using a small pipe wrench is an excellent idea I've seen it used for that purpose many times over the yrs.
I need to get a smaller one and put it with the rest of the vice grips.

[Bagger John - #3785]

Gotta admit I can be a bit of a gorilla when tightening stuff too...

that's why the tech manual has torque values for all bolts/nuts and screws. should be followed always.
remember aluminum and stainless steel doesn't like to be over-tightened.

25ft-lbs. Measured via a torque wrench. And with a 6pt 17mm socket to apply rotation.

Else someday you're going to be contemplating repair of a stripped-out drain plug boss, which - if done wrong - has the potential to be a lot more expensive than even the highest-end Snap On torque wrench.

[Ricky-D]

I know the manual says 25 foot pounds but that is over kill for a bolt that does nothing but seal a hole.

And using a torque wrench is fraught with peril, because of their inaccuracies. If you cannot feel when a bolt is

tight, you should let others do the work for you!

***

[Chrisj CMA]

I know the manual says 25 foot pounds but that is over kill for a bolt that does nothing but seal a hole.

And using a torque wrench is fraught with peril, because of their inaccuracies. If you cannot feel when a bolt is

tight, you should let others do the work for you!

***

For once (well it has happened before) I agree 100% with RickyD.

The only bolts I have broken were when using a torque wrench.  That plug just needs a slight tug, like half  a "grunt" after the stop.

Be aware of what the fastener is supposed to do, larger fasteners get higher torque and when its a non critical job like an oil drain plug or a brake rotor holding pin.....learn what tight enough feels like.

Most people tend to over tighten... Tighter is not always better.

[Patrick]

When young and growing up in the shop my Grandfather would holler to me, is it tight ?!  Yes, Grandpa its tight. Well, he would holler, give it another turn !


Its been said before, I see folks often using a torque wrench incorrectly. I too believe that torque wrench's are needed in just a few cases. But, that said, one needs to develop a calibrated elbow.

[Bagger John - #3785]

I know the manual says 25 foot pounds but that is over kill for a bolt that does nothing but seal a hole.

And using a torque wrench is fraught with peril, because of their inaccuracies. If you cannot feel when a bolt is

tight, you should let others do the work for you!

***

"Feel" is relative.

My "feel" of "tight" where, say, exhaust header nuts are concerned is a lot different than someone of lesser strength. Or of greater strength. Or of  greater or lesser experience with things mechanical. In the 15 years I've been involved with wrenching these things (and the decade before, wrenching the GL1100-1200 engines) I've never broken a header bolt, stripped a drain plug (or any other threaded item, for that matter) unless the previous owner munged up the hole so badly that 'by-the-book' values caused pullout or thread failure.

Inaccurate torque wrenches...first off, don't buy junk tools. Second, care for them appropriately:

http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/additional-how-to/ctrp-1111-torque-wrench-myths/

Any GL1800Riders members might remember a post several years ago by Stu Oltman on this very (drain plug) topic, and IIRC a similar article was also carried in Wing World. Repetitive fatigue caused by overtightening a fastener threaded into aluminum will eventually cause thread failure. It's like playing the lotto...buy enough tickets and eventually you'll hit.

Instead, take that lotto money and buy decent tools. Or pay a mechanicAnd learn to do the job properly, as there are a lot of clueless wrench-turners in the powersports industry who simply cannot be trusted to do the job correctly.

[WintrSol]

On thing about the torque specs in the manual, relative to damaging threads or bolts with a torque wrench: most assume the threads are dry! Threads that have oil, grease, or anti-seize compound on them will reach the recommended tightness at a much lower torque value, as set on your wrench. Unfortunately, no one will estimate how much; the answer is always 'it depends ...'. So, if you have an oily drain plug, I'd derate the torque value by about 10% to 15%, because it holds nothing but the seal against the aluminum casing. The only time this doesn't apply is when the instructions tell you to lubricate the threads, like installing the head bolts, AFAIK.

[Patrick]

On thing about the torque specs in the manual, relative to damaging threads or bolts with a torque wrench: most assume the threads are dry! Threads that have oil, grease, or anti-seize compound on them will reach the recommended tightness at a much lower torque value, as set on your wrench. Unfortunately, no one will estimate how much; the answer is always 'it depends ...'. So, if you have an oily drain plug, I'd derate the torque value by about 10% to 15%, because it holds nothing but the seal against the aluminum casing. The only time this doesn't apply is when the instructions tell you to lubricate the threads, like installing the head bolts, AFAIK.

Thats correct and I don't think many pay attention to that. I seldom if ever assemble fasteners dry, they have something on them.

[Bagger John - #3785]

On thing about the torque specs in the manual, relative to damaging threads or bolts with a torque wrench: most assume the threads are dry! Threads that have oil, grease, or anti-seize compound on them will reach the recommended tightness at a much lower torque value, as set on your wrench. Unfortunately, no one will estimate how much; the answer is always 'it depends ...'. So, if you have an oily drain plug, I'd derate the torque value by about 10% to 15%, because it holds nothing but the seal against the aluminum casing. The only time this doesn't apply is when the instructions tell you to lubricate the threads, like installing the head bolts, AFAIK.

Thats correct and I don't think many pay attention to that. I seldom if ever assemble fasteners dry, they have something on them.

Coefficients of friction are available for a number of automotive chemical compounds, either via their MSDS or from an inquiry to their manufacturers. A few service manuals I've read over the years directly list the torque derating figures for things like Anti-Sieze and Loc-Tite.

5% is a common value. The film of used oil left on the drain boss threads after draining the crankcase probably comes close. FWIW, I clean the drain bolt with carb cleaner and install a new sealing washer prior to reinstalling the bolt. No sense in possibly introducing crud and galling the threads in the process.

[Patrick]

http://www.portlandbolt.com/technical/bolt-torque-chart/

[WintrSol]

http://www.portlandbolt.com/technical/bolt-torque-chart/

Nice chart. And, this is how they say 'it depends ...':"Due to many variables that affect the torque-tension relationship like human error, surface texture, and lubrication the only way to determine the correct torque is through experimentation under actual joint and assembly conditions."

[Patrick]

https://www.imperialsupplies.com/pdf/A_FastenerTorqueCharts.pdf




This may be a better and easier to use chart.

[Patrick]

I'm wondering how B U M made out.

I thought the drain was pretty well protected and it is. I just changed oil and took a look.
An extractor may get it out. If not, drilling may be the only way as it doesn't look as though a pipe wrench will get in there. I've drilled many bolts,etc over the years. The key is to start a very small hole in the very center of the fastener and work your way bigger. Then clean the threads as best you can. It may need some flushing to make sure any chips are not going to be a problem later.

Sorry it took this long.

[Bagger John - #3785]

I'm wondering how B U M made out.

I thought the drain was pretty well protected and it is. I just changed oil and took a look.
An extractor may get it out. If not, drilling may be the only way as it doesn't look as though a pipe wrench will get in there.

Here's another thought:

Remove the right side exhaust and with a clear approach to either "side" of the bolt head, use a Dremel tool and flat cutoff wheel (carborundum/fiberglass composite type) to grind two flats on the bolt head. Since the original is(was) 17mm, shoot for 16mm. Position these flats to allow at least 30 degrees of rotation towards the rear of the motorcycle when a 16mm open end wrench snugly engages them. There should be just enough clearance to allow the wrench to break the bolt free - and at that point a small set of vice grip pliers should be capable of finishing the job.

Snap-On wrenches seem to have the skinniest open-end heads and would work well. I think my Craftsman and one or two Mac/Matco wrenches would fit...but there are other brands in my box whose heads are simply too large to grant sufficient access.

[Patrick]

I'm wondering how B U M made out.

I thought the drain was pretty well protected and it is. I just changed oil and took a look.
An extractor may get it out. If not, drilling may be the only way as it doesn't look as though a pipe wrench will get in there.

Here's another thought:

Remove the right side exhaust and with a clear approach to either "side" of the bolt head, use a Dremel tool and flat cutoff wheel (carborundum/fiberglass composite type) to grind two flats on the bolt head. Since the original is(was) 17mm, shoot for 16mm. Position these flats to allow at least 30 degrees of rotation towards the rear of the motorcycle when a 16mm open end wrench snugly engages them. There should be just enough clearance to allow the wrench to break the bolt free - and at that point a small set of vice grip pliers should be capable of finishing the job.

Snap-On wrenches seem to have the skinniest open-end heads and would work well. I think my Craftsman and one or two Mac/Matco wrenches would fit...but there are other brands in my box whose heads are simply too large to grant sufficient access.

Yep, that should work. Even if it means 'adjusting' [ grinding ] the wrench to fit. Once it moves just a bit it should come right out. Good thought.

[biguglyman]

Amazing how easy a tough job can be with the right tools. Spent a little extra on the set of bolt extractors. Got the deep wells and a nice little case. New plug is an ebay special with a magnetic core. Extractor kit was $30 and the new plug less than $10.


Guess I did a number on the old plug.


Now this is much better.

[Patrick]

Well good ! Glad it was an easy fix. I like easy.

Just hope you don't drop those nice new thing-a-ma-gigs off that lid and into the trash can. 

[Paladin528]

Torque values in the manual have a built in tolerance to account for things like oil on the threads or worn threads or just variations in temperature.  most torque values are standard values for the bolt size but some are application specific.
When in doubt just use the value provided in the manual whether you use anti seize or not.

[doubletee]

Torque values in the manual have a built in tolerance to account for things like oil on the threads or worn threads or just variations in temperature.  most torque values are standard values for the bolt size but some are application specific.
When in doubt just use the value provided in the manual whether you use anti seize or not.

And, for heaven's sake, if the manual says to replace the fasteners vs. reusing them, replace them! Don't ask me the reasons for so strongly advocating this. I tend to develop uncontrollable twitches and start swearing openly when reliving the stories.

[98valk]

Torque values in the manual have a built in tolerance to account for things like oil on the threads or worn threads or just variations in temperature.  most torque values are standard values for the bolt size but some are application specific.
When in doubt just use the value provided in the manual whether you use anti seize or not.

And, for heaven's sake, if the manual says to replace the fasteners vs. reusing them, replace them! Don't ask me the reasons for so strongly advocating this. I tend to develop uncontrollable twitches and start swearing openly when reliving the stories.

are u a lawyer? cause some of the replace notes are lawyer cover your butt requirements and also make more money for the shops and Honda parts suppliers.  the Honda book told everybody to replace their OEM tires at a certain tread depth which equated to about 5-6k miles and was nowhere near the tire manufacturers wear bars. I ran mine to the wear bars and got 13k out of them.
so who was right in that case Dunlop or Honda?
for bolts if they are not torque to yield bolts then there is no problem reusing and re-torqueing and using the correct thread locker, metallurgy science trumps the lawyers.

[Bagger John - #3785]

for bolts if they are not torque to yield bolts then there is no problem reusing and re-torqueing and using the correct thread locker, metallurgy science trumps the lawyers.

Familiar with sub-yield tensile fatigue?

There's a reason certain critical fasteners are replaced on removal instead of being reused and it has zilch point squat to do with lining Mother Honda's pockets with cash.

[doubletee]

Torque values in the manual have a built in tolerance to account for things like oil on the threads or worn threads or just variations in temperature.  most torque values are standard values for the bolt size but some are application specific.
When in doubt just use the value provided in the manual whether you use anti seize or not.

And, for heaven's sake, if the manual says to replace the fasteners vs. reusing them, replace them! Don't ask me the reasons for so strongly advocating this. I tend to develop uncontrollable twitches and start swearing openly when reliving the stories.

are u a lawyer? cause some of the replace notes are lawyer cover your butt requirements and also make more money for the shops and Honda parts suppliers.  the Honda book told everybody to replace their OEM tires at a certain tread depth which equated to about 5-6k miles and was nowhere near the tire manufacturers wear bars. I ran mine to the wear bars and got 13k out of them.
so who was right in that case Dunlop or Honda?
for bolts if they are not torque to yield bolts then there is no problem reusing and re-torqueing and using the correct thread locker, metallurgy science trumps the lawyers.

I was just trying to save someone from the aggravation I went through. I'm religious about torque values. However, I twisted off 2 very different fasteners when reinstalling them, and long before I ever approached the torque recommendation. I'm not trying to line anyone's pockets, nor am I a lawyer. However, it's very worth it to me to spend the extra $4, or whatever is the price of the fastener, to avoid a repeat of my experience.

[98valk]

for bolts if they are not torque to yield bolts then there is no problem reusing and re-torqueing and using the correct thread locker, metallurgy science trumps the lawyers.

Familiar with sub-yield tensile fatigue?

please provide a link about this.  tensile fatigue is after a bolt has been over torqued. Are u saying the OEM over torqued the bolts? I doubt it.

[Bagger John - #3785]

for bolts if they are not torque to yield bolts then there is no problem reusing and re-torqueing and using the correct thread locker, metallurgy science trumps the lawyers.

Familiar with sub-yield tensile fatigue?

please provide a link about this.  tensile fatigue is after a bolt has been over torqued. Are u saying the OEM over torqued the bolts? I doubt it.

Fasteners stretch any time tension is placed on them. Tensile failure of a fastener (or any other component, for that matter) occurs after enough stress cycles have been placed on a part to initiate cracking, and the incurred stresses may themselves be considerably below the yield strength of the part.

Here's a good rundown of the process:

http://academic.uprm.edu/pcaceres/Courses/MatEng3045/EME8-4.pdf

For a real-world case study, Google "De Haviland Comet". Metallurgical failures of this nature - due to both poor design and predictive fatigue cycling - are why places like Davis-Monthan are filled with many retired aircraft whose outward appearances suggest otherwise.

If and where indicated, braking component fasteners (e.g., brake rotor bolts, brake caliper hanger bolts) should always be replaced rather than reused if they supply clamping force and don't merely act as locators. Ditto for any other chassis fastener which holds critical subassemblies together.