2nd clutch replacement

[honest henry]

It's gone again, and only 57k miles.  Recently, last couple of years, it's been mostly city driving to and from work.  Clutch lever won't pull in all the way to the bar and it shifts REALLY hard.  Is there a heavier duty/sturdier clutch that can be put in that won't break down in 30k miles or so?  I am running full syn oil, have since about 12k.  Any help would be appreciated.

Honest Henry

[Thunderbolt]

but it seems like JeffK was installing two springs in his blower bikes.  Maybe he will see this and explain.

[DFragn]

That sounds like the dampener plate rivets. Was that the problem the first time?

My damper plate rivets went at 55k. My friction plates were fine at an estimated 30-40% wear.
I suspect dampener plate rivet failures are due to clutching technic.

If it's a dampener plate failure I tend to believe double springing the clutch, as is recommended for superchargers,  would expedite dampener plate rivet failures. You would lesson the ease of slipping the clutch by adding a clutch spring.
Double springing is to prevent slippage due to higher torque & HP created by supercharging. It won't prevent dampener plate rivet failures.

[LadyDraco]

Well I replaced a Clutch in TheBeast@ 122k it now has 143K and this clutch is doing great...
  I didn't double up on the spring,but did replace it...
Went with all honda parts...
I had to replace the whole inner and outer baskets...
Here's a link to the pic's ...

Clutch Photos Rebuild

[Jeff K]

If it's a dampener plate failure I tend to believe double springing the clutch, as is recommended for superchargers,  would expedite dampener plate rivet failures. You would lesson the ease of slipping the clutch by adding a clutch spring.
Double springing is to prevent slippage due to higher torque & HP created by supercharging. It won't prevent dampener plate rivet failures.

Oddly enough, I have never had a damper plate fail. 120,000 miles most of them supercharged, never lost a plate.

I don't know of any aftermarket dampers, Barnet makes disks, but I don't think they have the damper.
I have always run stock clutch parts.
 
I have had a bike in my shop that had the plate removed and replaced with the equivalent thickness of stock steel plates.
It was a bit "jumpy" at a slow take off. I'm sure you could get used to it. 

[fstsix]

Does your Clutch slip in any gear under hard riding?. I thinking it sounds like you may have a push rod issue. That would be the slave cylinder assembly that rod has to have been greased at each clutch install or it will wear and would not let clutch to disengage. that would be easy fix. if you want to upgrade Buy Barnett clutch upgrade with Barnett spring I have this in my Supercharged Valk 4 years and 3 Back tires LOL!!!.Works great little harder to pull the not a sissy bike.

[honest henry]

That sounds like the dampener plate rivets. Was that the problem the first time?

I suspect dampener plate rivet failures are due to clutching technic.

Yes that was the problem the first time also.  I ride hard but don't believe I abuse the clutch, no burn outs etc. 
Which "clutching technic" would lead to premature rivet failures?  If I've been bad I will change my ways!!

Thanks
Honest Henry

[fstsix]

This clutch is pretty tough did you say its ( Slipping? )

[Ricky-D]

It's gone again, and only 57k miles.  Recently, last couple of years, it's been mostly city driving to and from work.  Clutch lever won't pull in all the way to the bar and it shifts REALLY hard.  Is there a heavier duty/sturdier clutch that can be put in that won't break down in 30k miles or so?  I am running full syn oil, have since about 12k.  Any help would be appreciated.

Honest Henry

I would suspect the replacement was ill completed. What you describe is definitely bad and is the cause of the poor shifting. Without criticism I would surmise the clutch replacement job was shoddy at best.

***

[DFragn]

That sounds like the dampener plate rivets. Was that the problem the first time?

I suspect dampener plate rivet failures are due to clutching technic.

Yes that was the problem the first time also.  I ride hard but don't believe I abuse the clutch, no burn outs etc.  
Which "clutching technic" would lead to premature rivet failures?  If I've been bad I will change my ways!!

Thanks
Honest Henry

I'm no expert just an opinion based on my failure. The dampener plate does its thing at clutch engagement. My thought is if allowed to "bite" consistently excessive wear to the rivets would be the result. With a smoother transition allowing a touch more of slippage at engagement I and others may experience longer dampener life and more equal to friction plate life.

Many here get 90-100k on there clutches. I suspect it's because they're a little softer & ease a little better into engagement.
I've altered my engagement method and improved on lever release at varying rpm's and at varying rates of speed increase while shifting. Time will tell, I only have 25k on my clutch rebuild.
For maybe 20k miles or more [prior to rebuild] I used to only use 2 fingers on the clutch lever. That stemmed from my sport bike days. Although I prefer having 3 fingers wrapped around the left grip I find on the Valk I have smoother control using 4 fingers on the lever. But that's just me aging I guess.

As to the slave pin comment. IMHO if the slave pin were so dry as to wear sufficiently enough to effect clutch function it would be screaming like a girl. Any rider would want to discover what's making all the noise. It wouldn't be prudent to continue riding with all that squealing long enough to wear the slave pin. It's loud enough to warn - somethings seriously amiss.

[DFragn]

If it's a dampener plate failure I tend to believe double springing the clutch, as is recommended for superchargers,  would expedite dampener plate rivet failures. You would lesson the ease of slipping the clutch by adding a clutch spring.
Double springing is to prevent slippage due to higher torque & HP created by supercharging. It won't prevent dampener plate rivet failures.

Oddly enough, I have never had a damper plate fail. 120,000 miles most of them supercharged, never lost a plate.

I don't know of any aftermarket dampers, Barnet makes disks, but I don't think they have the damper.
I have always run stock clutch parts.
 
I have had a bike in my shop that had the plate removed and replaced with the equivalent thickness of stock steel plates.
It was a bit "jumpy" at a slow take off. I'm sure you could get used to it. 

Your a smoother clutch'r then some of us if my theory is correct.

[Chrisj CMA]

That sounds like the dampener plate rivets. Was that the problem the first time?

I suspect dampener plate rivet failures are due to clutching technic.

Yes that was the problem the first time also.  I ride hard but don't believe I abuse the clutch, no burn outs etc. 
Which "clutching technic" would lead to premature rivet failures?  If I've been bad I will change my ways!!

Thanks
Honest Henry

One technique that I believe can lead to more wear on a clutch would be downshifting and using the clutch to slow the bike. 

I let off on the gas and let the compression of the engine help slow the bike but when its time to downshift I pull in the clutch and leave it in.  I just use brakes from that point

[Jeff K]

One technique that I believe can lead to more wear on a clutch would be downshifting and using the clutch to slow the bike. 

I let off on the gas and let the compression of the engine help slow the bike but when its time to downshift I pull in the clutch and leave it in.  I just use brakes from that point

Nope, I down shift mine all the time. Sometimes hard enough to drag the rear wheel. Never lost a damper plate. 120,000 miles

[valk2001]

95,000 miles with no clutch issues at all.  I do use the clutch/transmission to slow when stopping at stop signs, redlights, etc.

[honest henry]

This clutch is pretty tough did you say its ( Slipping? )

No does not slip.

[fstsix]

Does not slip' Hmm i have seen hand lever stick before on my friends Ultra Classic  front brake do to corrosion no seen externally.I would bleed slave cylinder to see if your hand lever will go all the way to bar first just to check  before you dig into clutch.