Oil Filter Change

[pancho]

Many times I will go two or (maybe even three on rare occasion) oil changes without changing the filter on bike and cars just because the opportunity of time shows up and I have oil and no filter. My thinking is that if the motor is in good condition, there is no debris being shed to clog up the filters. I am wondering if this thinking is flawed,, any hypothesis on the subject, positive or negative is welcome and appreciated.

[signart]

4 qts. of clean oil + 1 qt. of dirty oil = 5 qts. of dirty oil.

[Dak44312]

If that were the case, engines would last forever.

At bare minimum, there is always metal-to-metal contact at startup. It isn't avoidable. Additionally, if the oil in the filter is already somewhat broken down, do you want that mixing with the new oil? The filter retains oil... It doesn't drain when you pull the plug. Change the filter! Buy a box of them and keep them around.

[Houdini]

My .02¢, I'd rather put on a clean filter and top off the oil than put clean oil into a dirty filter.

[The emperor has no clothes]

It's funny how things that my Dad taught me 45 years ago still stick with me. I've never done an oil change without a new filter. I have no good reason other than that's how he did it.

[Hook#3287]

I was under the impression that what made oil dirty is the transfer of dirt from the air.  That may be wrong, but I agree with Houdini, better new filter than new oil.

Instead of changing just the oil, get on her and ride to the store for a new filter and swap both next chance you get.

[old2soon]

New oil calls for a new filter. Even if you purchase Honda O E M oil filters they are still cheaper than an engine. NOT changing your oil filter IS polluting your fresh oil. BUT it IS your money and your engine! RIDE SAFE.

[Firefighter]

The filter needs to be changed with the oil, if you don't the oil is contaminated. The filter catches metal filings and clutch particles and as the gasoline burns it leaves behind a carbon ash for lack of a better term that collects in the sump. Mixed with raw gasoline and other byproducts causes acids to form along with other contaminates and yes dirt your air filter doesn't catch. That is why if you don't change oil it turns to a sludge.

Also using different oils leaves behind different ash. We are lucky as these engines seem pretty bulletproof. Some vehicles I have worked on the oil pickup in the oil pan actually stops up with sludge and can and do ruin the engine.

[pancho]

I didn't mention it, but on the occasions I have done this, I do remove the filter and dump the oil out before refilling.

[old2soon]

I didn't mention it, but on the occasions I have done this, I do remove the filter and dump the oil out before refilling.

          The filter is USED!  RIDE SAFE.

[Bighead]

I guess it would be better than never changing the oil but a filter is the cheapest part of an oil change.
Personally I would never change the oil and not the filter.

[MITCHO]

Not to mention oil filters have a built in bypass. If filter is dirty enough the filter is not doing its job anymore and just circulating dirty oil.

[Gryphon Rider]

Not to mention oil filters have a built in bypass. If filter is dirty enough the filter is not doing its job anymore and just circulating dirty oil.

This exactly. 

[DK]

Reminds me of the flip side of this argument:

"Change the filter and add a quart of new oil".

One makes about as much sense as the other.

Dan

[98valk]

wow, where are u guys riding with no air filter that your oil is getting so dirty that your oil filter is clogging up? pretty bad engine wear if your filter is clogged up with metal or dirt to require a change.
lets see Honda requires oil/filter change every 8k miles this is with dino oil and their small oil filter. use an over size filter such as I do and one can extend oil filter life.
oil gets dark NOT because of dirt, but because the additive pack is wearing out. long synthetic oil changers get 20-50k miles out of the same oil by just replacing the filter/s which add new fresh oil with new fresh additives.

OEMs for yrs have listed an oil filter change every other oil change some putting 15k on the filter.

I wish everybody would take a Tribology 101 class and an oil filter 101 class.
I wish everyone would do at least on oil analysis and see the oil is good for at least 10k miles.

[Hook#3287]

oil gets dark NOT because of dirt, but because the additive pack is wearing out. long synthetic oil changers get 20-50k miles out of the same oil by just replacing the filter/s which add new fresh oil with new fresh additives.

OEMs for yrs have listed an oil filter change every other oil change some putting 15k on the filter.

The original post was about changing the oil filter every other, sometimes every third, oil change.

As you stated, Honda requires BOTH oil & filter at 8K.

So are you changing your oil, and not your filter, every other time?

And if you are, why?

[pancho]

I knew this thread was opening a can of worms, but I also knew I couldn't get lynched unless I was caught on the open road......   Interesting responses, and a couple of useful informed inputs. I appreciate the input guys. 

[98valk]

oil gets dark NOT because of dirt, but because the additive pack is wearing out. long synthetic oil changers get 20-50k miles out of the same oil by just replacing the filter/s which add new fresh oil with new fresh additives.

OEMs for yrs have listed an oil filter change every other oil change some putting 15k on the filter.

The original post was about changing the oil filter every other, sometimes every third, oil change.

As you stated, Honda requires BOTH oil & filter at 8K.

So are you changing your oil, and not your filter, every other time?

And if you are, why?

 I use the oversized PureOne PL14459, larger dia, more filter area, same length as OEM, I change it every other.
I also did it a few times with the OEM and supertech, even did used oil analysis. zero problem. Times I didn't was due to either work or a long winter, too much salt on roads, I would change the filter, due to the chance of water condensation being absorbed by the filter media.

[h13man]

I guess changing the oil and filter @ the same time on my autos seems practicle thing to do to my bike too but I do run a $7 filter on my bike vs $3 filter on my autos. Maybe I should change my $7 filter every other oil change. 

[98valk]

Benefits over-sized filter??  I have an oil pressure gauge and I have seen when cold less max pressure under acceleration than with the OEM filter.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/2482760/3

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1537716&fpart=1

[cookiedough]

 The comment about changing oil filter every other oil change has been around for a very long time in decades past.  Then again,  oil changes use to be EVERY 3000 miles and since oil is better qualiity/graded now most mfgs. suggest at least 5000 miles between oil changes, some 7500-8K like our Valks.

Basically, if at or near 8K miles,  change both period, end of conversation.  Now, if you put only 3-4K per year on a cycle, then I guess leaving the oil filter in for that 1 more time is no big deal, just don't go over 8K miles. 

To leave any oil filter in for say 10-15K miles is just asking for trouble, even with synthetic oil that should last 8-10K miles easily.  Amsoil guarantees their oil for 25K miles, but somehow I disagree on their findings and won't do that to any vehicle. 

I use to growing up leave the oil filter in every other oil change going 3K to change just oil and then next 3K miles change both oil and oil filter no issues whatsoever, but that was when oil changes were recommended every 3000 miles. 

If you think about it though,  most oil filters are 5-7 bucks tops which is nothing when a qt. of synthetic oil is usually more than that, so why not just do both and not be so cheap?   If going to do an oil change, might as well do it all right.   

[Gideon]

I use Rotella T6, 5-40 Synthetic Oil and a Purolator Pure One PL14610 filter. The oil costs $15.00 with a $5.00 rebate from Shell. The filter costs $5.79.
That's cheap maintenance. 
I do it every 5000 mile or one year, whichever comes first.
 

 
 
 

[98valk]

so for my 7.3L powerstroke, 15w40 diesel oil is suppose to be changed every 5k miles.
below states their filter is good for 15k miles. so this means 3 oil changes before I need to change the filter.
https://mobiloil.com/en/oil-filters/performance-oil-filters#list

so this is with a engine that puts soot into the oil and lubricates a hot exhaust temperature turbo which spins at 100k+ rpms, and using dino 15w40 needs to be changed every 5k miles and people change the same oil or synthetic every 3-5k miles in their bikes. I don't get it??

I guess something like this big guy below... scientific oil analysis says can go much longer on a oil change, but his emotions tell him something different and rule him. the report tells him oil is still good cleaniness and shear are not a problem yet he says it is. he talks out both ends and makes zero sense, with a scientific UOA in his hands. I don't get it.
I've posted my UOA, with 10w30 diesel oil before, after 2 yrs and 8k miles it was still good to 10k+ miles.

"My Blackstone reports have come back telling me to go to 7500 and 9000 miles between oil changes, but my warm and fuzzy feelings seem to go away around 6000. Our trucks hold a tremdous amount of oil, but they utilize that oil in other ways than just lubrication. the oil in our trucks is also used as hydraulic fluid (up to 3800 PSI)to actuate our injectors. so to answer your original question,"is it a waste?" NO, its not a waste, it is making sure that you hav eclean and unsheared fluid for the truck to operate with. Can you go longer? Absolutley. I would recommend changing between 5000-6000 miles."
http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/835077-is-a-3-000-mile-oil-change-interval-a-waste-2.html

[98valk]

There actually is a SAE report/test done yrs ago which proved the below. similar testing shows same for air filters. I am getting close to 20k miles on my air filter, plugs still look normal.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3078450
"What many chose to ignore is that a filter actually becomes more efficient,and traps smaller particles as the filter gets loaded up. So a filter with 5000 miles on it will trap smaller particles than a new filter,which in effect keeps the oil cleaner,which we all know cleaner oil means the oils is less abrasive than oil that contains larger particles.
Think of oil in terms of sandpaper. 80 grit(larger articles)leaves a rougher surface when rubbed on a surface such as steel. 300 grit(smaller particles) leaves a much smoother surface behind,almost polished
So a new oil filter allows larger particles to pass through then one with 5000 miles does,which in effect increases wear until those passages load up which traps smaller and smaller particles which translates into lessened wear.
Oil filters are like oil.They both need to break in to provide maximum protection."

[Paladin528]

I ALWAYS replace the filter when I change the oil.  I also cut the filter open and inspect the filter element for signs of metal or other particulate that could indicate a potential issue.  This comes from ears of working on aircraft where the filter are cleanable and are inspected upon removal for contamination.  Rarely do I find anything but on my old VT1100 it did tell me to pull the clutch and lo and behold the clutch was bad. Replaced it before it left me stranded.

"breaking in " the filter is a nice theory however as the filter gets loaded with particulate the pressure on the back side increases as a side effect.  At some point that pressure will cause the bypass valve the filter to open and allow unfiltered oil to be pumped back to the engine.  If it gets to that point, you DO NOT want that oil going to components unfiltered.
For the sake of a couple of bucks keep a filter in stock at home.  If you have a jug of oil then have a filter too.

[Memor86]

we're talking about valkyries, bikes and household cars and trucks, not race engines or big truck engines so stick to the subject guys...


dont be cheap. use a new filter every time.

[Danny McMillin]

Not another oil/filter thread!!

 Some of you "youngsters" don't go back this far, but most automobile manufacturers in the forties and fifties recommended changing the filter, and running the dirty oil through a clean filter. Reasoning was "if the filter was doing it's job, it would clean the dirty oil." To me, using some common sense reasoning, this theory makes far better sense than running clean oil through a dirty filter, resulting in immediately contaminated oil!

Now, in the twenty first century, I would be appalled if someone felt it was sufficient preventive maintenance do change either without the other. No reason could justify an oil change without changing filter, and oil. If you don't have the filter on hand, if you don't have the oil on hand, then don't go through the effort of an oil change, and not do it correctly. The amount of investment that we all have in our Valks negates the judgments of not doing preventive maintenance,(and that is what oil changes are), and requires that they be done at the right intervals, and most of all, correctly!

Now, you may assemble, and stone me to within an inch of my life. Let the war begin!