valk clutch issue - part 2

[CANADIAN-F6C]

For those of you playing along with the home game - you may remember my last post where I had opened up my clutch master cylinder to find the dreaded gray gunk - cleaned & rebuilt the master & slave mechanisms - bled the system - & couldn't get a firm feel on the clutch handle nor any clutch action that would allow me to remove power from the rear wheel.
The general consensus was - keep bleeding.
 
I borrowed a mity-vac style pump from my mechanic next door - who also brought beer! We were amazed at the amount of air that kept coming out of the system! I pumped & dumped & drank for over an hour before we finally got steady clear fluid! There was a point at about the 45 minute mark where there was a serious concern that we were not adequately stocked with enough beer to continue the operation - we had to call for backup.

Anyway - I purged it & got that familiar firm ( aka ..."Oh my God if this freaking light doesn't change soon I'm going to lose some finger on my left hand!") feeling in the clutch. It still doesn't seem to be doing anything though. I start it in Neutral - no tire spin (it's up on a jack - I'm replacing the front tire too). I pull in the clutch & put it in 1st & the tire immediately spins, with the clutch still right to the bar. The wheel spins up & down with engine revs & I can't stop it with my boot - even at idle - with the clutch in.

As my daughter would say WTF?

[pancho]

Let the jack down and put the tires on the ground F6C, then see what you have.

Glad you had backup,, nothing like running out of supplies before the operation is done.

[gordonv]

Where are you? You haven't added in your location in your profile.

I wonder if you have a bolt also loose, thereby letting air in.

[CANADIAN-F6C]

Thanks for the replies:

I don't have a front wheel on right now, so I can't put her on the ground & I'm afraid that just putting the rear on the ground would throw her forward & off the jack.

I'm in SW Ontario. It's complicated. Due to an unfortunate family situation - I live in one place & the bike is in another. I don't think there is any air left in there - the handle is firm & has good return action & I had a lot of good solid brake fluid when bleeding.

[Gryphon Rider]

Here's my guess at what's happening:  When the clutch is engaged (lever out), strong springs are holding the clutch plates together.  Pulling in the lever removes the spring pressure allowing the driving and driven plates to move independently.  when the bike has been sitting for a while and the oil is cold, the thin layer of oil between the plates keeps the plates stuck together even though the spring pressure has been removed.  So you pull in the clutch lever and the clutch is still stuck together.  Then you put the transmission in gear, and now motion is applied to the driving plates, and normally the back tire in contact with the ground would prevent the driven plates from moving and shock them free.  You would normally notice this as a momentary lurch forward when you tap the shifter into first.  With the bike in the air, there isn't enough resistance to break the oil bond between the plates, not even with your boot helping.  Have your friend very firmly push the rear brake pedal down while you put it in up into second gear (much safer than a boot on the tire).  It will either stall the bike or break the oil bond and all will be fine.

[WintrSol]

I think GR has the right answer; even with the oil warm, there will be some force transfer through the oil on the clutch plates. Just to make sure, apply the rear brake, to see how easily the spinning will stop.

[bentwrench]

I've noticed that vacuum bleeders can actually pull some air in around the threads of the bleeder screw.
Try a little silicone paste or thread sealant on the bleeder screw before bleeding or you may never stop seeing bubbles in the fluid.