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Author Topic: FI engine swap on the 1200.  (Read 1184 times)
John Schmidt
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*****
Posts: 15201


a/k/a Stuffy. '99 I/S Valk Roadsmith Trike

De Pere, WI (Green Bay)


« on: June 25, 2016, 09:44:06 AM »

Call it a labor of love....I'd love to be done with this.  Cheesy  As some of you know, I've never been real happy with the engine that was in the bike, it ran but.....  One benefit I got from it, I was never bothered with mosquitos, I just didn't want to either keep or eventually sell something like that. I had decided to get it roadworthy and put some miles on it in hopes of seating the rings better. Just running it in the garage doesn't really do the job since I had no way of putting a load on the motor. Acceleration places pressure on one side of the cylinder, deceleration on the opposite side....all of which helps seat rings. A couple weeks back on Ebay I happened across a 1985 FI motor for the 1200, starting price was $499.99(once you go to $500 I guess the fees go up a lot more). The other kicker.....free shipping, worth another $250 minimum. Out of curiosity I watched it and nobody bid, it closed that way. I really agonized over whether to spring for it since I had just put new rubber on the Highlander and you know that wasn't cheap. After it closed and was discussing it with Rita, she just told me to go for it and use her CC. So, I called and it was still available for the $499.99...shipped. Last Tuesday, Jeff Parker and I went down to a local truck terminal and picked it up. They did a great job crating it, took us close to an hour just to get the crate off and the engine onto my hydraulic table. Then the fun began. Keep in mind, this was advertised as a 23k mile engine with compression in the 160's. I talked to the mechanic, questioned if this was really 23k or maybe 123k miles, to which he was very emphatic...said he knows the bike and former owner and it's a real 23k. OK, so like anything else, you pays your money and takes your chances.  Roll Eyes

I spent a lot of time just pulling all the FI induction stuff off the top, the first picture shows what it looked like. Once off, I started item by item converting it to a carbed engine, and swapping out the new parts I had installed on the old engine to this newer one. The conversion included removing the pulse generators, one on the back end of the right head(see chrome covered box in the first pic below) and the single one under the belts, and the trigger wheel. I removed the old belts and while off, I installed the double pulse gens the carb version uses, the carb T/W, and my new belts. I pulled the front cover off the old motor which has a new water pump mounted in it, soon as the gaskets get here I'll install it on the newer motor....that pump feels solid so probably could have left it in, but mine is new. You have to pull that cover on the early boxers, with the 1500 and up you can change the water pump externally, making it a lot easier to do. The oil pressure connection was on the back of the new motor so I had to remove that and install a plug from the old motor, then remount the sender on top where it was on the old motor. It all involved a lot of little details so I made up a list of things needing done as I discovered them, crossed them off as completed. Changing the belts and timing the motor was rather quick, I used a homemade tool to move and hold the cam pulley(s) while setting the timing, then manually rolled it through 4-5 cycles checking for sounds not conducive to mechanical integrity.  Grin

This is what it looked like first out of the crate, what a load of crap sitting up there.


This is everything removed, will be selling it to Mike(Onawingandaprayer). He's also taking the heads and the block, couldn't fit that in the box however.  Wink


This is what it looks like now, a bit of cleaning then a couple coats of silver engine paint. I hooked it up to a battery, turns over real good and the alternator checks good as well. Whew!  cooldude


The headers are blued badly so trying to decide a course of action. I'd like to take them to a local powder coating company, they do something called Ceramakrome(sp?). It comes out a bright shiny ceramic silver almost like chrome and doesn't blue. http://performancekote.com/motorcycle-coatings.html   If there is a more reasonable company for the job, I'd love to hear about it. One neat thing I discovered on the new motor....since it was from a Limited it had gear indicator wiring. I checked and my new speedo/tach combo gauge also has gear indicator readouts. The only thing not being used on that gauge is the fuel readout. With no connection it was constantly flashing, which it does when you're empty or getting close. I checked and a resistance of 6-10 ohms will duplicate a full reading so I picked up a couple 1 watt resistors and installed one in the circuit. Voila....I now show a full tank(albeit falsely) and the gauge no longer flashes. The gauge is all wired in except for the oil pressure idiot light and now the gear indicator. I did show Jeff how I can go 125mph sitting still in the garage....an electric drill with a screwdriver bit inserted in the I/S speedo pick up which I adapted the wiring on. It has been fun.....I keep telling myself.  laugh Cheesy
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Flrider
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Jack

Kissimmee FL


« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2016, 10:11:48 AM »

Sounds to me like you got a Larue deal on that engine, you should not be out too much after selling the FI and other parts  cooldude cooldude

You know I am bias on the engine paint, I like a black engine block  Cool, I think it makes the valve covers pop but that depends on the final look of the bike and personal taste.

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OnaWingandaPrayer
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Posts: 591


« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2016, 10:32:57 AM »

I see your making lots of progress . I hope your out test riding soon ! well perhaps a few early morning test before its 100* Wink
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_Sheffjs_
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Jerry & Sherry Sheffer

Sarasota FL


« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2016, 01:55:58 PM »

What kind of HP does it make with carbs? 
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John Schmidt
Member
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Posts: 15201


a/k/a Stuffy. '99 I/S Valk Roadsmith Trike

De Pere, WI (Green Bay)


« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2016, 02:15:23 PM »

What kind of HP does it make with carbs? 
As the Rolls Royce people say when asked that question: Adquate!  Wink  I have no idea, I do know the 1200 Std. held the salt flats speed record for a number of years for stock bikes of that size/weight.

About 20 yrs. ago I had a 1000 on which I heavily modified the frame, got rid of a lot of parts including the 4 carbs. Mounted a single throat Holley on a special manifold made by a guy in either Haines City or Winter Haven. Changed the ignition to aftermarket electronic, added Accel coils so I didn't have to use the ballast resistor. The frame mods dropped the seat from ~29" to ~24". Added aftermarket headers and some gutless mufflers...just enough to create a bit of back pressure. Talk about scream, I could blow the bags off a 1500 Wing with no trouble. Sold it for close to my investment and moved on, lots of fun but again....no idea of the HP, just know I could piss off most any rider out there at the time. The zip splats are much faster now, 20+ yrs. makes a big difference in their performance.
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John Schmidt
Member
*****
Posts: 15201


a/k/a Stuffy. '99 I/S Valk Roadsmith Trike

De Pere, WI (Green Bay)


« Reply #5 on: June 27, 2016, 06:08:34 PM »

Got most of the gaskets in today so I was able to install the front cover. Still waiting on the coolant tubes O-rings and the gaskets for the end pieces. While I have the carbs off I desmogged it. The Pair valves on the 1200 are mounted underneath the carb plenum instead of on the engine like the Valk. There's a handful of holes on the plenum to plug and an air cutoff valve for fuel shut off. I just cut some short hose chunks and plugged the ends after slipping them on the various fittings. Tomorrow I pick up a handful of freeze plugs the NAPA shop, had to order in from elsewhere, after inserting them in the block I'll be ready to install soon as the coolant O-rings arrive. Anyone want to volunteer an extra set of hands? Jeff Parker has offered but his hands are full at the moment.

Last work from Rita....don't you dare get sick until this mess is completed. Friday will be four years since my big scare and I don't want a repeat.  cooldude
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Bighead
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Posts: 8654


Madison Alabama


« Reply #6 on: June 27, 2016, 06:26:13 PM »

Wish I was closer John I would love to get my hands dirty and help you get that thing on the road cooldude
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1997 Bumble Bee
1999 Interstate (sold)
2016 Wing
OnaWingandaPrayer
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Posts: 591


« Reply #7 on: June 27, 2016, 07:34:52 PM »

What kind of HP does it make with carbs? 

  So ,Jerry got me curious . From what I can find online follows below.
                               
                                                 HP@RPM         Torque(ft lbs) @ RPM
 
  GL1200         4 carbs and FI         94@7000             77.4@5500
  GL1500         2 carbs                 100@5000            110  @4000
  Valk1500       6 carbs                 100@6000            95.5@5000

 With its lower weight , Johns 1200 should be a screamer . Similar to his old 1000 project.
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John Schmidt
Member
*****
Posts: 15201


a/k/a Stuffy. '99 I/S Valk Roadsmith Trike

De Pere, WI (Green Bay)


« Reply #8 on: June 27, 2016, 07:54:15 PM »

Mike, don't know if I told you....they forgot to send the wire looms that attach to the injectors. It includes the ICM I believe, a couple other things. Quite an involved looking wire harness. I called about it and they're shipping it down to me, have no idea when it will arrive. This should give you everything except the fuel tank.  cooldude

Looking at the HP figure you posted for the 1200....just think how the Valk performs with 94 HP on some of them. Can't wait to get this out for a spin, should be interesting.  Smiley
« Last Edit: June 27, 2016, 07:57:13 PM by John Schmidt » Logged

Pappy!
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Posts: 5710


Central Florida - Eustis


« Reply #9 on: June 28, 2016, 08:27:51 AM »

What kind of HP does it make with carbs? 

Fuel injection, by itself, is not a source of improvement in HP. Carbs will make just as much.
Only when you get into todays advanced computer management of spark/fuel and re-design the heads and pistons for todays fuels and combustion event can you realize noticeable gains in power.
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John Schmidt
Member
*****
Posts: 15201


a/k/a Stuffy. '99 I/S Valk Roadsmith Trike

De Pere, WI (Green Bay)


« Reply #10 on: June 28, 2016, 08:37:51 AM »

What kind of HP does it make with carbs? 

Fuel injection, by itself, is not a source of improvement in HP. Carbs will make just as much.
Only when you get into todays advanced computer management of spark/fuel and re-design the heads and pistons for todays fuels and combustion event can you realize noticeable gains in power.
Bingo!  That's the message I tried to get across to one of my daughter's know it all boyfriend some years ago. He was bragging about "I'm converting my engine to FI(adding....that's fuel injection in case you didn't know) for more performance, higher HP,".....and went on and on.  I told him essentially the same message you just posted, he wasn't having any of it so I dropped it. Figured here's another young'in with all the answers and has no clue what the questions are yet. I later saw he sold the car because he wanted something newer, however my daughter told me he could never get it to run right after all his big FI plans. Thankfully she didn't keep up that relationship for long.
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