Electrical (?) Issue. Completely confused.

[DaveWJunior]

Took the 98 Valk standard out for a ride today.  Restarted after stopping at the store. As soon as I dropped it into gear, it started missing/skipping and finally stalled out.  Starter would not re-engage until I put it in neutral.  Checked the kickstand switch. That's fine.  After about 5 minutes it ran fine again so I drove home (12 miles.)  Went back out to take another spin and it happened again.  Was stuck on the roadside for 15 minutes. 
Starts and runs fine in neutral.  Put in gear and it coughs a little and stalls out. Sometimes it'll run for a little while (although horribly) with enough throttle.  When it stalls, I pull the clutch in and the starter won't even engage.  I've tried all gears.  Put it in neutral,  and she fires right up...... until I put it in gear.  Could the neutral switch be sometimes shorting out something with the ignition system?  I don't know where to even start with this. 

[WintrSol]

It sounds like the side stand switch, or the wire to it, to me. Like the UP position contact is bouncing open, or the wire from it is. The UP position enables the starter motor, via the clutch switch, and also goes to the ignition control module (ICM), along with the neutral switch output. Without the SS UP signal, the ICM shuts the engine off when not in neutral, so, if the wire or switch is intermittent, it will behave just as you describe.

[DaveWJunior]

No. I've checked, bypassed, and rechecked the side stand switch.  I could only hope it was something that simple.  This behaves the same whether the bike is moving or sitting still.   I'm going to pull it apart again this week and maybe pull the timing cover off to make sure the neutral switch wiring isn't corroded.  I don't know where else to look.

[gordonv]

If you've confirmed the SS switch, how about the clutch switch?

How did you confirm? Do you have the service manual?

http://valkyrienorway.com/download.html

[Patrick]

I'm thinking you may have 2 issues.

If the side switch is good as you say then I'm thinking maybe the clutch switch.

The lousy running shouldn't have anything to do with the electrical system by my thinking right now. Has the fuel tank been off recently ? If so, I'm thinking the vent line is kinked.  If not, I'm wondering if the petcock or vacuum line is giving problems.

[DaveWJunior]

Just to clarify, the bike doesn't stall out in the way it would if it were in gear and you were to 0ut the sidestand down.  It starts running rough like a few cylinders aren't firing.  It still "runs," just runs horribky.  I tested the sidestand by shorting the wires next to the sidestand so the bike assumes it's always up.  I can hear the clutch lever clicking when I pull it in.  Again, if this was the problem, wouldn't it just completely cut out rather than just running rough? 

[DaveWJunior]

.......and a fuel vent problem would present itself in and out of gear with no load on the engine. Right?  I just removed and cleaned the petcock this Spring.  Besides the clutch and sidestand switch, is there anything else that affects the ignition system/coils/etc electrically?  You see why I'm so perplexed here. 

[Hook#3287]

Just speculating here, but could a weak ground connection cause these symptoms?

....and a fuel vent problem would present itself in and out of gear with no load on the engine. Right?

Right.

  Besides the clutch and sidestand switch, is there anything else that affects the ignition system/coils/etc electrically?

Neutral switch.  Kill switch. Bank angle sensor and ignition switch.

Check for continuity in the clutch switch, side stand switch and neutral switch diode.

The ignition systems works, just cuts out and not at once?

Almost sounds like one of the coils is crapping out.

This is certainly a perplexing problem.

[WintrSol]

There is a ground to the SS switch, and two outputs. If you have grounded the UP output of the SS switch and it still cuts out, the connection from the SS switch and ICM are suspect. It could be the ICM connector itself, like the contact in the mating connector is failing. I'd first unplug the ICM and clean the connectors, both sides, with a contact cleaner like DeOxit, then check the wire where it attaches to the contact for internal cracking. It is not uncommon for the wire strands to break inside the insulation, so you have to feel for that. Anywhere along the harness where the wires are bent around hardware could also be where the break is. BTW, if the strands are broken at the connector crimp, it would make and break with vibration, causing the engine to cut off then back on. Since the problem also inhibits the starter, the wire could be damaged at the SS connector, or at the splice that sends it to the clutch switch, or the ground source to the SS switch could have intermittent problems.

With the side stand down, does the light come on steady? Once it is on, if you wiggle the stand arm or the cable attached to the switch, does the light flicker?

[DaveWJunior]

Sounds like the last 2 posters are on the right track.  Lights don't flicker at all.  I was thinking the same thing about one of the coils crapping out, but would that only present itself in gear?  It doesn't all cut out at once, and it doesnt seem like a progressive issue either (doesn't seem to get worse with time.)  Twice the problem has corrected itself  (intermittent ground fault? But where), and it only seems to happen when the engine is hot.  First run of the day it's fine.  Shut it down and restart, it's bad.  I appreciate all the suggestions.

[gordonv]

I believe the std has a 2 wire side stand switch, the IS has 3 wires.

All those safety switches, clutch, SS, neutral, clutch, etc.. all ground out the ICM and cause it to fail. Cut the engine out, no rough riding or anything.

I think I would do the old test of each. Its easy. Bike running in gear, drop the SS. Should kill it. Bike in gear, no clutch, try to start. Shouldn't start.

If any of them don't behave as they should, then it might be pointing to a bigger problem.

Also thinking you have an either 2 problems, or maybe a broken wire not always in contact, which is why it sputters.

[Firefighter]

I would check voltage at the frame. Multimeter DC voltage, check voltage at battery then use the ground probe on the frame while positive probe on battery positive, see if this changes when engine runs bad. Coils ground on frame.

There is a netural switch diode in fuse box right side cover. Continuity one direction and not the other diode is good, don't know how this would affect engine??

Keep us posted.

[Ricky-D]

I don't understand the obsession with all the switches. To me it sounds like the bike has a crapping out battery. The only other possibility I envision would be there are electrical items attached to one of the coils.

***

[indybobm]

I believe the std has a 2 wire side stand switch, the IS has 3 wires.

Gordon, I think you have it backwards. Std/Tourer Side Stand Switch has 3 wires, I/S has 2.

[heavyd]

I might be way off base but the description reminded me of an issue I had a couple years ago. Started the bike in the garage, wasn't running great but it was cold. Sat on it to pull it out and it stalled. Fired it back up, pulled it out, hit the little bump at the door and it quit again. Restarted to let it warm up but as soon as I got off it quit again. After a lot of searching I found out that the wire plug under the right side cover with the fuse in it, I can't remember what it is called right now, was partially melted and when the bike moved a little it was shorting the wires.

[WintrSol]

I believe the std has a 2 wire side stand switch, the IS has 3 wires.

Gordon, I think you have it backwards. Std/Tourer Side Stand Switch has 3 wires, I/S has 2.

That's what my manual shows; it appears they use the same switch, but the I/S has no side stand down light, so that wire isn't installed.