Relax
Member
Posts: 322
Power & elegance...just like the Valk
Oslo, Norway
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« on: July 13, 2016, 03:02:46 AM » |
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 I broke both my bolts yesterday during installing. I as about to tighten to specific Nm I think, maybe, the bolt hit the inner end of the hole and that caused it. What is the thread on these bolts? Are they special? Som bolts were a bit weird to enter.
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hubcapsc
Member
Posts: 16781
upstate
South Carolina
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« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2016, 03:15:58 AM » |
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BOLT, HEX. (8X12)
95501-08012-00
Those bolts just keep the shock from slipping
off the frob it is mounted on, they don't have
to be very tight...
-Mike
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Steel cowboy
Member
Posts: 1284
Moving ahead so life won’t pass me by.
Spring Hill, Fl.
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« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2016, 04:19:18 AM » |
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Use some blue lock tight, they don't have to be that tight.
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2001 black interstate
2003 Jupiter Orange wing
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Chrisj CMA
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« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2016, 05:15:08 AM » |
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Perfect example. One needs to know what tight feels like. Also to understand the function of the fastener.
I would bet more bolts are broken USING a torque wrench than not using.
The dumbest thing I see quite often is the caliper plate holding pin tightened to like 50 ft-lb and it takes a ten foot long breaker bar to get that thing off.
Learn the difference between spark plug tight (or header nut) and rear axle tight, also practice what "tight" feels like with large and small wrenches in case you are on the side of the road and all you have is pocket sized stuff.
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Chrisj CMA
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« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2016, 05:19:53 AM » |
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I broke both my bolts yesterday during installing. I as about to tighten to specific Nm I think, maybe, the bolt hit the inner end of the hole and that caused it. What is the thread on these bolts? Are they special? Som bolts were a bit weird to enter. Thought of something else. If this was not the first time you tightened those. A little too tight over and over and they will break very easily. That's one reason I believe Honda recommends replacing fasteners that take some torque and provide an important function. |
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doubletee
Member
Posts: 1165
VRCC # 22269
Fort Wayne, IN
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« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2016, 06:34:01 AM » |
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Speaking from experience, they will sometimes break WAY before one reaches the specified torque. My practice is to replace them, instead of reusing them. It's not fun trying to use E-Z outs to back out the remains of those fasteners. |
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John Schmidt
Member
Posts: 15222
a/k/a Stuffy. '99 I/S Valk Roadsmith Trike
De Pere, WI (Green Bay)
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« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2016, 07:21:38 AM » |
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I wouldn't bother with an easy-out or similar if I broke off one of those retaining bolts. I'd just order another shock mount; screw out the old, screw in the new....and this time don't use the torque wrench. I think about the only time I use a torque wrench is on axles, cylinder head bolts, resetting new steering head bearings, engine mounts, swingarm bearings. Can't think of anything else.  |
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h13man
Member
Posts: 1756
To everything there is an exception.
Indiana NW Central Flatlands
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« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2016, 08:30:16 AM » |
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These are really cheap arse bolts that Honda elected to use. I felt mine starting to strip using them the 2nd. time. Went to Ace and bought SS ones and replaced with very minimal torque by hand. Also used anti-sieze. They are easy enough to get to if needed to be checked.
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old2soon
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« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2016, 08:58:52 AM » |
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STILL have the ones that came with the bike. SNUG-NOT TIGHT. Also a firm believer and practitioner of anti seize. Had the entire exhaust system off twice and ALL the original header bolts are still intact. NUFF said! RIDE SAFE
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Today is the tommorow you worried about yesterday. If at first you don't succeed screw it-save it for nite check. 1964 1968 U S Navy. Two cruises off Nam.
VRCCDS0240 2012 GL1800 Gold Wing Motor Trike conversion
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pancho
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« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2016, 03:42:59 PM » |
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I seem to remember Dag doing a post about this ,, the manual shows the torque to be 26 N-m (2.7 kgf-m, 20 Ibf ft on page 14-10, which is correct, but there is a chart on some other page that shows it to be much higher,, like twist off high.
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The most expensive things you will purchase, are those things you would not have needed if you had listened and obeyed.
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gordonv
Member
Posts: 5762
VRCC # 31419
Richmond BC
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« Reply #11 on: July 13, 2016, 07:18:05 PM » |
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You don't have your location in your profile? How about adding it.
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1999 Black with custom paint IS   |
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Relax
Member
Posts: 322
Power & elegance...just like the Valk
Oslo, Norway
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« Reply #12 on: July 14, 2016, 06:00:21 AM » |
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I broke both my bolts yesterday during installing. I as about to tighten to specific Nm I think, maybe, the bolt hit the inner end of the hole and that caused it. What is the thread on these bolts? Are they special? Som bolts were a bit weird to enter. Thought of something else. If this was not the first time you tightened those. A little too tight over and over and they will break very easily. That's one reason I believe Honda recommends replacing fasteners that take some torque and provide an important function. You are into something in both your posts here :cooldude I have had the bike for 11 years and had the shock absorbers on and off 4-5 times... I have until this time only used me "feeeling" about what is tight and never had any problem with any nuts or bolt. This time, however, I had bought a torque wrench to do it "proper",,,,,and that's when the bolt broke ..LOL.. |
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pancho
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« Reply #13 on: July 14, 2016, 06:16:58 AM » |
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So, what is the "proper" torque you were trying to tighten them to? and where did you get your information? This has been addressed before.
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The most expensive things you will purchase, are those things you would not have needed if you had listened and obeyed.
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h13man
Member
Posts: 1756
To everything there is an exception.
Indiana NW Central Flatlands
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« Reply #14 on: July 14, 2016, 07:15:02 AM » |
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I wouldn't bother with an easy-out or similar if I broke off one of those retaining bolts. I'd just order another shock mount; screw out the old, screw in the new....and this time don't use the torque wrench. I think about the only time I use a torque wrench is on axles, cylinder head bolts, resetting new steering head bearings, engine mounts, swingarm bearings. Can't think of anything else. Or repair off the bike using a LH drill bit, punch/small hammer, or a small ez out as a last resort and all above require a little finesse/patience and some penetrate oil of some sort. If that doesn't go well, then buy a new mount. I guess I'm fortunate my ride was a garage queen with 11,000 mi. on it thus allowing me to maintain it to my standards and great forum support when needed. |
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Relax
Member
Posts: 322
Power & elegance...just like the Valk
Oslo, Norway
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« Reply #15 on: July 14, 2016, 08:58:17 AM » |
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So, what is the "proper" torque you were trying to tighten them to? and where did you get your information? This has been addressed before.
The Honda service manual for this bike is the source , and it says 26 nM if my recall is right  A question is : are the rubber bushing worn too much, and would it matter if they are regarding torque? Meaning, would the bolt bottom there and because of that break with further tightning? But, any way it is , using common sense and the " the feel/touch" together with trusting torque alone , cab be wise , I guess.. Sidenote, i once read "Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance" ......I think it touched what we are discussing .. |
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« Last Edit: July 14, 2016, 09:12:46 AM by Relax »
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pancho
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« Reply #16 on: July 14, 2016, 11:05:02 AM » |
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" Sidenote, i once read "Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance" ......I think it touched what we are discussing .. "
I think you're right.....
I push torque wrenches because I have watched too many people twist off and strip out bolts and routinely tighten to 200% recommended torque, deform and bend stuff .... I have never seen a torque wrench off that much. This is mostly in the world of heavy handed Harley owners and may not apply here.
To answer your question about worn bushings causing the problem,,,, no , a bolt that is rated at a specific torque will take that amount under any conditions as long as the threads are reasonably clean. You are right in the ballpark if 26 nM is you were set at,, which equals 2.7 kgf-m about 20 foot pounds.
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« Last Edit: July 14, 2016, 11:07:51 AM by pancho »
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The most expensive things you will purchase, are those things you would not have needed if you had listened and obeyed.
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Relax
Member
Posts: 322
Power & elegance...just like the Valk
Oslo, Norway
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« Reply #17 on: July 14, 2016, 12:32:27 PM » |
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" Sidenote, i once read "Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance" ......I think it touched what we are discussing .. "
I think you're right.....
I push torque wrenches because I have watched too many people twist off and strip out bolts and routinely tighten to 200% recommended torque, deform and bend stuff .... I have never seen a torque wrench off that much. This is mostly in the world of heavy handed Harley owners and may not apply here.
To answer your question about worn bushings causing the problem,,,, no , a bolt that is rated at a specific torque will take that amount under any conditions as long as the threads are reasonably clean. You are right in the ballpark if 26 nM is you were set at,, which equals 2.7 kgf-m about 20 foot pounds.
I'll follow Zen and look more carefully into it to to either strengthen my theory or prove it wrong |
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