Jumping gears?

[Printer Mike]

Anyone experienced sudden unexpected upshifting during hard acceleration? It seems to happen in third gear.

I'm wondering if I could be putting pressure on the shifter without realizing it... I hope it's just my inexperience with a Valk...

[blackcat]

in the same situation mine jumps from 4th to 5th
ive started getting able to catch it and shift up before if happen

took mine to the dealer i bought it from and with a honda warrenty , service guy rode  it(didnt act up with him) and then told me i must have bent the connection rod

[3W-lonerider]

mine used to do the same thing..after i installed a kickshifter. seems the kickshifter was keeping pressure on the shifting arm and never actually returning that arm to a nuetral position after a shift..i shimmed the kickshifter out to give it alittle more freeplay..and have never had the problem reacure.

[Rocketman]

I'm having to opposite problem.  She'll jump from 5th to 4th sometimes while cruising down the highway, but more commonly, she'll jump from 2nd to nuetral a few seconds after shifting into 2nd, especially while getting on it hard.

mine used to do the same thing..after i installed a kickshifter. seems the kickshifter was keeping pressure on the shifting arm and never actually returning that arm to a nuetral position after a shift..i shimmed the kickshifter out to give it alittle more freeplay..and have never had the problem reacure.

I have a kickshifter.  What did you shim?

[R J]

I'm having to opposite problem.  She'll jump from 5th to 4th sometimes while cruising down the highway, but more commonly, she'll jump from 2nd to nuetral a few seconds after shifting into 2nd, especially while getting on it hard.

mine used to do the same thing..after i installed a kickshifter. seems the kickshifter was keeping pressure on the shifting arm and never actually returning that arm to a nuetral position after a shift..i shimmed the kickshifter out to give it alittle more freeplay..and have never had the problem reacure.

I have a kickshifter.  What did you shim?

Rocketman, on yours that is called a lazy shift.  You have to be very persistant on putting the big girl in gear.   Hit that kickshifter a little harder,

[3W-lonerider]

i agree with RJ..jumping back out of gear..your not getting it in gear properly..i do that occasionaly to..so your not alone on that one.

[Rocketman]

I have a kickshifter.  What did you shim?

Rocketman, on yours that is called a lazy shift.  You have to be very persistant on putting the big girl in gear.   Hit that kickshifter a little harder,

Several things:
First, if it's my shifting, what is causing the 5th to 4th?  That will occur many minutes after my last shift.
Second, the problem started when my first Valkyrie flooded out, and I replaced it with one with a kickshifter.  Never had a problem shifting before that.  Either it's me not knowing how to use it, or it's the bike, or it's the kickshifter.
Third, I've gotten on it hard enough that if I stomp on that rear shifter peg any harder, I'll break something, if I haven't already.  If you have ever seen me, you'd know that I don't have a problem with too little "oomph".
I'll admit that sometimes it happens when I don't get emphatic with the shift, but it also happens when I get rather forceful with it.  No pattern to that at all.

[Ricky-D]

It may be that there is some part that is not a player but is applying some pressure against the shifter mechanism causing it to want to move the shifter mechanism.

I say this because it wants to do the same (as you have stated) from 5th gear down to 4th gear and also from 2nd gear down to neutral.

If there is no mechanical part doing this then I would suspect that it is you, doing this yourself and not realizing it!

You'll have to most likely get down on your knees to look at the situation and determine if the shifter is the culprit, on the other hand, if it is merely rider error, a simply correction of riding style ought to accomplish the fix.

***

[Moonshot_1]

This happens to me as well. It is a rare occurance though.
It seems to happen when I am wearing a different pair of shoes or boots than I usually wear.
(On long rides I'll get the boots on, putting around town any ol' shoe will do.)
Invaribly, I'll not shift quite right, get it hung up between gears and I'll have the shifting issue.
So I know the issue is with me.

Does get your attention though, don't it?

If this is a frequent occurence then it is likely problem with the bike.

[Rocketman]

It may be that there is some part that is not a player but is applying some pressure against the shifter mechanism causing it to want to move the shifter mechanism.

If there is no mechanical part doing this then I would suspect that it is you, doing this yourself and not realizing it!

Do you mean something external not allowing the shifter to move fully, or something internal?
It does seem to be hard to get 'er into gear, but it feels/sounds like something internal not meshing properly.

[Ricky-D]

It may be that there is some part that is not a player but is applying some pressure against the shifter mechanism causing it to want to move the shifter mechanism.

If there is no mechanical part doing this then I would suspect that it is you, doing this yourself and not realizing it!

Do you mean something external not allowing the shifter to move fully, or something internal?
It does seem to be hard to get 'er into gear, but it feels/sounds like something internal not meshing properly.

Yes, that's what I mean. 

The transmission is always in gear, gears are always in "mesh". Name of type of transmission? Answer: Constant mesh transmission.  Dogs and slots and locking up shafts is all that's going on.

***

[3W-lonerider]

ok..for those wanting to know how i shimmed the kickshifter. here goes..when i put the kickshifter on..i followed the instructions to a T..which moved the mounting for the peg out because there needed to be a nut behind to shim everything out..used it that way for about a year then everytime i was either going up a mountain or really getting on it..my bike would upshift all by itself...after much checking i found that the kickshifter was against the shifting arm tight enough that shifting arm was not returning to a nuetral position..so i pulled the whole assembly off. now i never cared for the way the mounting bracket was shimmed out..because that made the left side floorboard seem alittle mushy and not as solid as the right side. went to the hardware store and got a carrage bolt with 2 nuts. drilled the threads out of the hole where the kickshifter and mounting bolt go threw the frame. also picked up plenty off thin stainless steel washers. mounted the mounting bracket back in place with the front bolt..then slid the carrage bolt threw the hole with the kickshifter installed..measured how many stainless washers i was going to need. pulled the carrage bolt back out and put the stainless washers between the footpeg mount and the kickshifter.. checked again and made sure that the kickshifter was not tight against the shifting arm. installed the nut on the back side of the bolt and tightened everything down..checked again and everything was fine.installed the second nut as a jamb nut..went for a ride up the mountain where it would mess up every single time..and it never messed up. been this way for 2 years and still working great..if anybody would like pictures ..here they are..

[Rocketman]

if anybody would like pictures ..here they are..

Perfect, thanks.  I'll go check mine later today, and see if a similar change is likely to help.

[3W-lonerider]

one thing i forgot to mention..the carage bolt has a square cut below the head..i took a file and filed the corners off so it would'nt interfer with going threw the kickshifter.

[Printer Mike]

I've been paying more attention to my issue of unexpected upshifting. Right now, I'm leaning toward that the problem is me. I noticed that the toe of my boot is pointing down, more than I realized, when there's no pressure on the shifter. So, in the excitement of hard acceleration, I could easily be forcing the shift...

Wouldn't want to give this fine motorcycle a bad rap.

[Mr.BubblesVRCCDS0008]

Mine will do this onces in a while. Different boots, shoes or just getting lazy or tied is what I figured it to be. When shifting from 1st to 2nd hit it hard and sharp if your under a lot of throttle.

[Jeff K]

took mine to the dealer i bought it from and with a honda warrenty , service guy rode  it(didnt act up with him) and then told me i must have bent the connection rod

There isn't a "connection rod" so it would be pretty hard to bend it.

[Rocketman]

took mine to the dealer i bought it from and with a honda warrenty , service guy rode  it(didnt act up with him) and then told me i must have bent the connection rod

There isn't a "connection rod" so it would be pretty hard to bend it.

I had assumed he meant the shift fork.

[Rocketman]

I've given this a couple of weeks, and I think I'm ready to comment again.  I have inspected the shift mechanism, and don't see any external obstructions that are keeping the shifter from going through full travel.
I've tried modifying the way I shift.  I have been getting on it pretty hard, to try to seat the dogs better.  The reliability of my shifts has not changed any.  I'm still popping out of gears sometimes.  Most frequently popping from 2nd into neutral.
I have seen only one change.  After three weeks of trying to beat the shifter into submission, my shifter seal has started to leak.
The only thing that seems to work, at least somewhat, is a slow shift.  If I keep pressing on the kickshifter through the upshift, it seems to like to pop out of one gear, wait just a hair, then pop into the other (yes, I know it's dogs meshing, not gears, but you get the idea...)

Bottom line is that I am convinced there's something internal going wrong.  Does anyone have any insight as to: A) whether it's a serious problem whose symptoms will get worse, or B) whether there's a fix short of cracking the case open?

Mark

[R J]

Bro, from the way you are referring to how you shift it is a LAZY shift.

Pump the rascal into gear a little harder, quit the slow and easy crap.......

In another way to look at it, shift the gear and then get off the shifter peg.

[Chrisj CMA]

Possibility:  Especially if you have aftermarket pipes it is easy to have it set up where the shifter hits the header and doesnt allow a complete shift.  There are two adjustments, one at the output shaft and one at the lever where the peg is.  If you have Cobra pipes then the adjustment at the output shaft must be made or you will not be able to shift at all.  Make sure you have plenty of clearance clarance

[Rocketman]

Bro, from the way you are referring to how you shift it is a LAZY shift.

Pump the rascal into gear a little harder, quit the slow and easy crap.......

In another way to look at it, shift the gear and then get off the shifter peg.

You're not reading what I wrote.  I've been hitting it hard.  I've been hitting it harder than I usually do, and it's gotten me nowhere.  I'm not sure if the shifter seal leak is related to how hard I've been hitting it, but it started after I made a conscious effort to hit it even harder than I normally do. 
The only time it seems to work is when I do the "slow and easy crap".
Hitting it harder has NOT helped.  The only way I could hit it harder is if I jumped out of the seat and came down on it.  For someone my size, slamming my foot down on it is a lot of force.  Slamming my body weight into it would break it off.
Any other ideas?

[Rocketman]

Possibility:  Especially if you have aftermarket pipes it is easy to have it set up where the shifter hits the header and doesnt allow a complete shift.  There are two adjustments, one at the output shaft and one at the lever where the peg is.  If you have Cobra pipes then the adjustment at the output shaft must be made or you will not be able to shift at all.  Make sure you have plenty of clearance clarance

Good suggestion, but I've checked that.  Unless I'm seeing things, I've got lots of clearance, whether you're clarance or not.  (:

[Ricky-D]

Bro, from the way you are referring to how you shift it is a LAZY shift.

Pump the rascal into gear a little harder, quit the slow and easy crap.......

In another way to look at it, shift the gear and then get off the shifter peg.

You're not reading what I wrote.  I've been hitting it hard.  I've been hitting it harder than I usually do, and it's gotten me nowhere.  I'm not sure if the shifter seal leak is related to how hard I've been hitting it, but it started after I made a conscious effort to hit it even harder than I normally do. 
The only time it seems to work is when I do the "slow and easy crap".
Hitting it harder has NOT helped.  The only way I could hit it harder is if I jumped out of the seat and came down on it.  For someone my size, slamming my foot down on it is a lot of force.  Slamming my body weight into it would break it off.
Any other ideas?

Well Rocketman, then I would suggest taking off that aftermarket shifter mechanism and try riding with the stock shifter on the bike.

That ought to tell you for sure where the problem lay. 

Of course I agree with you and you ought to take it into your local Honda dealer and let them look at the transmission shift mechanism and the transmission gears also. Ought to get away for less than a grand I would think.

***

[Rocketman]

Well Rocketman, then I would suggest taking off that aftermarket shifter mechanism and try riding with the stock shifter on the bike.

That ought to tell you for sure where the problem lay. 

Of course I agree with you and you ought to take it into your local Honda dealer and let them look at the transmission shift mechanism and the transmission gears also. Ought to get away for less than a grand I would think.

I haven't tried taking the kickshifter off yet.  I've inspected it for any interference, but I think that taking it off is a good approach.  Seems unlikely to fix the problem, but I'm a big fan of the cheap and easy fixes no matter how unlikely they are, before doing something massively invasive like an inspect/replace of some internal shifting mechanism.

I don't think I ever suggested going to the dealer.  It seems like you think I'm insisting on a dealer trip.  I'm just asking for a logical solution to pursue.  Other than the kickshifter removal, I don't see any good (or even any bad) suggestions that I didn't pursue.  In my opinion, they've been eliminated.
If the kickshifter removal fixes it, great.  If not, I'll just have to live with it until it becomes annoying enough to dig into, then I'll take it apart in my garage.

[fast black]

I think there is a bent shift fork.  Just my opinion.
adios
fast black

[Ferris Leets]

They don't need to be shifted with a lot of pressure.  Not criticizing here, just saying.  Mine seems to shift smoothest if I preload the shifter with very moderate pressure, then tap the clutch and just barely let off on the gas.  Or just let off the gas slightly and not use the clutch at all except from 1 to 2 or 2 to 1.  This way I get a nice little "snick" instead of a "clunk".  These valks seem to shift noisy, I thought my Nomad was loud but now when I ride it I hardly notice the shifts.
     The bent shifter fork sure sounds like a posible, especialy if you have been hitting the lever HARD.

[Ricky-D]

Those aftermarket heel-toe foot shifters are not conducive to long transmission life and will cause many to open their wallets to expensive repairs that heretofore would not have been necessary.

If you want a recliner, then buy a recliner.

***

[Jeff K]

Those aftermarket heel-toe foot shifters are not conducive to long transmission life and will cause many to open their wallets to expensive repairs that heretofore would not have been necessary.

If you want a recliner, then buy a recliner.

***

Where does that come from?
What facts do you have back that up?

My transmission has 115,000 miles on it, darn near all of those miles it had a Kick shifter, and all but 30,000 miles of those  are supercharged miles... in fact my gears are back cut, adding even more stress, still all stock parts, and no problems.

[Rocketman]

This is dragging a long-dead post back from the grave, but:
I think I'm finally ready to declare victory.  I took the Valkyrie to a wrench party quite a while ago, and consulted with some other folks, one of whom loves his kickshifter.  We determined that the kickshifter on mine was installed incorrectly.  It was at an odd angle, and was putting most of the force into forcing the shift rod to the side, rather than twisting it, as a normal shift would.  We adjusted both the kickshifter and the shift rod, and now it matches his.  Since then, I have only missed a few shifts.  Most of those I can directly attribute it to me barely tapping the shifter.  The only other two misses were probably due to me not being used to it.  I have not missed a shift in a month or more.

Bottom line: It was neither a lazy shift, nor a poorly designed kickshifter.  It was a poor install job, and neither having done the install, nor owning the instructions, I couldn't fix it until someone who knew what it was supposed to look like had peeked at mine.  Now that it's set up properly, I'm very happy with it.

Mark

[3W-lonerider]

Glad you got it solved..

[SPOFF]

I've been running a Kickshifter for at least 10 years and also have the footpeg lowering plate (which I think were also a Rattlebars product) and the Kickshifter does require some fine adjustment. I run footpegs, not floorboards, so when I'm riding aggressively, I use the Honda shifter as intended. I use the Kickshifter when I'm in leaned back lazy cruiser mode.


As far as a "lazy shift," that's usually when you barely get past the nuetral position detent and fail to get the 2nd gear detent on the shift drum fully locked. So the transmission slips back into nuetral. I do this about once a season, hopefully when no one is looking.