Stripped Oil Drain Plug

[KY,Dave (AKA Misunderstood)]

What do you do? Tap to next size up or is there a self tapping kit for it one size up? Went to do an oil change and it felt funny unthreading. Gingerly tried to snug her up slowly after draining, but she wouldn't really snug up completely. Slow leak now.   Thanks, Dave

[98valk]

What do you do? Tap to next size up or is there a self tapping kit for it one size up? Went to do an oil change and it felt funny unthreading. Gingerly tried to snug her up slowly after draining, but she wouldn't really snug up completely. Slow leak now.   Thanks, Dave

normally the thds in the pan are a harder metal than the plug, so the plug thds go bad first before the pan. this is good engineering practice. Maybe all u need is a new plug and a new sealing compression washer. Also clean out the pan thds of any plug thd shavings before installing the new plug.

[KY,Dave (AKA Misunderstood)]

Thought the pan was aluminum and it was it. Would be great if it's the plug. Already have a bunch of the crush washers. Thanks. I'll check it again soon. Dave

[Ken 11861]

Unfortunatly the Valk engine case (oil pan) is Aluminum and the plug is steel. I'm an old machinist and would recommend one of several approaches. RE-thread the drain hole with the next size up larger mm tap, or get a metric mm Helicoil tap & Helicoil insert to bring the threads back to the original MM size. There are also other brands of thread repair inserts out there. Enlist the help of a friend or mechanic if you would feel uneasy about tackling this. One trick on tapping is to coat the tap with some grease to hold onto the aluminum chips created while tapping. I still would flush thru some thin oil with the bike tilted to the right side (where the drain is) to get rid of as many chips as possible. I believe the oil filter will catch anything else that you didn't flush out.
GOOD LUCK

[98valk]

Thought the pan was aluminum and it was it. Would be great if it's the plug. Already have a bunch of the crush washers. Thanks. I'll check it again soon. Dave

correct aluminum pan, I would think, there should be a steel thd insert for the drain plug. it should not be aluminum thds esp from honda engineering. I be surprised if they are aluminum thds. the easily replaceable part should always be sacrifical.

[Momz]

Helicoil insert is your best and most cost effective solution and if done properly, should be better than new.

[KY,Dave (AKA Misunderstood)]

Thanks everyone. Looks like a helicoil it is. 

[vic]

Here's another variation of a thread insert.   Its actually a threaded bushing that locks in place once you install it.  It ain't coming out.    http://www.timesert.com/

[9Ball]

Here's another variation of a thread insert.   Its actually a threaded bushing that locks in place once you install it.  It ain't coming out.    http://www.timesert.com/

the top flange may be a problem in this application and not allow a machined flat sealing surface, otherwise it appears to be good for other applications.

[Earl in Pensacola]

The hole is "counter-sunk" so that there is a flat surface to seal against.  To me, this system looks better than a Heli-coil.  I think MY biggest problem would be gettin' directly under the bike for a straight shot at the installation.

[quexpress]

It is always prefered to repair the thread back to its original size. However, if that is not possible, many auto-parts stores sell oil plugs that are self-tapping. 
See http://www.gadgetjq.com/stripped_oil_plug_thread.htm

[Madmike]

You may want to look at Keenserts or Keyserts.  They are a steel sleeve with external and internal threads and install with common taps and lock in place with pins that are integral to the insert.  Helicoils require a special tap for installation and are like a spring.  The major concern with either of these fixes will be getting the bore perpendicular to the sealing surface.  If you opt to go this way and have problems with getting a seal you might be able to rebuild the sealing surface with an epoxy type material to get a good fit.

Two other options you may want to investigate are oversized self tapping drain plugs such as those that are commonly sold at automotive supply shops and thread repair compounds by manufacturers such as LocTite Corp.

[chip]

I have made similar repairs .Somtimes the repair goes smooth somtimes it doesn't .One thing to be sure of ,if you go the route of drilling and retapping is that you keep the drill, then the tap perpendicular or at 90deg. from the bottom of the case or to put it another way. Be sure to follow the original hole closely ,so the drill and tap are not leaning at all. Your hole and threads must follow each other. This can be tricky even when standing up and working in a vise. I often start a tap in a drill press while turning the spindle by hand to help keep it straight. Of course this won't be possible under you bike, but I'm sure you get the idea. And as Ken stated you really don't want any aluiminum going in the hole. If you have access to an air compressor remove the oil fill cap and use a blow tip,(gun) with a rag around it in the oil fill hole to get a "little" air moving thru the engine case to push any chips back out as soon as they are formed. And as stated earlier use cutting oil or grease on the tap to attract any chips. If you have any questions I may be able to help. Please feel free to email me ,this type of work is a part of my daily job .

[KY,Dave (AKA Misunderstood)]

Decided to go with the self tapping next size up for now and got it done. Snugged it up and filled with oil. Checked after a few minutes and saw a leak because I over cautiously didn't snug it enough, not wanting to over tighten it. Went back and saw another few drips and snugged it up some more. After checking back now it seems to be fine with no leaks seen after 30 minutes. I used the nylon washer it came with rather then the crush washers I have as he recomended using what it came with. Fellow at O'Rielly's said the only problem with these is after so many oil changes they tend to do the same thing and strip out again. They had another self tapping design that had a plug that ran inside the self tapping bolt so that the actual drain was the new bolt instead of constantly removing and replacing against the aluminum, but didn't come in the size big enough for mine. I'm just going to be extra careful and get it tightened gradually everytime and hope for the best. Thanks for all the responses. Dave

[Rocketman]

It has been recommended to me, that when I use a self-tapper, to replace it with a regular plug of the same size after I used the tapper to set the threads.  Not sure why I wouldn't just use the regular tap, but I understand about not wanting to run a tapping bolt in and out of a set of threads multiple times.

Mark

[Davemn]

I would be very hesitant to keep removing that plug. More likely I would remove the oil every time by pumping it out. I do it with my boat, small hand pump, works like a champ.

[Ricky-D]

I would be very hesitant to keep removing that plug. More likely I would remove the oil every time by pumping it out. I do it with my boat, small hand pump, works like a champ.

Yup, now there's a good suggestion. 

Put the bolt back in with a bunch of thread sealer and a soft sealing washer and don't mess with it any more.    Simply to keep replacing the bolt with newer larger bolts that are going to be continuously ripped out is eventually going to mean replacing the motor case and starting over.   

The problem of course is the bolt head being 17mm, requires a large size wrench which to most, seem to needs at least a hundred foot pounds of torque to properly tighten it.

***

[Rocketman]

I would be very hesitant to keep removing that plug. More likely I would remove the oil every time by pumping it out. I do it with my boat, small hand pump, works like a champ.

I've seen those pumps.  I can't imagine that it gets all the crud out of the bottom of the pain that a proper drain would get.  Comment?

[hubcapsc]

I would be very hesitant to keep removing that plug. More likely I would remove the oil every time by pumping it out. I do it with my boat, small hand pump, works like a champ.

I've seen those pumps.  I can't imagine that it gets all the crud out of the bottom of the pain that a proper drain would get.  Comment?

I've seen them too, it would have to have a pretty small input hose to work on a Valkyrie... when I first got my Valkyrie I put a couple of
cc's    too much oil in at the first oil change and, like a new parent with their first child, noided out about it and tried to
suck the extra oil out with a (clean) vacuum pump like what comes with a kerosene can. It wouldn't fit down past the inner workings
to where the oil was...

-Mike

[KY,Dave (AKA Misunderstood)]

I would be very hesitant to keep removing that plug. More likely I would remove the oil every time by pumping it out. I do it with my boat, small hand pump, works like a champ.

I've seen those pumps.  I can't imagine that it gets all the crud out of the bottom of the pain that a proper drain would get.  Comment?

I've seen them too, it would have to have a pretty small input hose to work on a Valkyrie... when I first got my Valkyrie I put a couple of
cc's    too much oil in at the first oil change and, like a new parent with their first child, noided out about it and tried to
suck the extra oil out with a (clean) vacuum pump like what comes with a kerosene can. It wouldn't fit down past the inner workings
to where the oil was...

-Mike

Yaeh, I already checked and that's the conclusion I came too. How much would empty out thru the filter location ? Surely not all of it.

[Ricky-D]

the exact kind you need for suction will go to the bottom of the crankcase if inserted through the dipstick hole.
Example of kind of tube: The ice maker line on your refrigerator.

What were you wanting to use, a (expletive deleted) hose?

Just like all the quickie oil change places use. And they do it in the same way. Insert the tube through the dipstick tube.

And I don't get the logic that you can drain more than evacuate.  I guess you could lay the bike over on it's side to get the last drop.

Not rocket science here.

No criticism intended here.

***

[Rocketman]

Just like all the quickie oil change places use. And they do it in the same way. Insert the tube through the dipstick tube.
And I don't get the logic that you can drain more than evacuate.  I guess you could lay the bike over on it's side to get the last drop.

That's one of the reasons I don't go to quickie oil change places.

Do you think that lifting the liquid off the top of any settled impurities is better than letting the liquid flow out a hole in the bottom, sweeping at least some of the impurities with it?  As for getting the last drop, I'm going with the hope that the Honda engineers were intelligent enough to put the drain plug at the low point of the oil pan.  If you don't get your ice maker hose into the low point, yes, you're leaving some.
The difference is probably not very large, but it seems easy enough to do it right.

Mark

[roboto65]

I believe draining is best and I love my Valk but the engineers must have been sleeping the day the made the Valk I mean who puts the drain plug on the highside of the bike at lean so to drain fully you have to lift and tilt to get the "rest" of the oil out 

[Davemn]

No one is saying its the best way. Its an option if you are concerned about stripping the oil plug.
I believe if there is any crud its suspended in the oil. Providing the motor is warmed up anyway.
Just an idea.

[G-Man]

As for getting the last drop, I'm going with the hope that the Honda engineers were intelligent enough to put the drain plug at the low point of the oil pan. 

Would have been better of they put the drain on the kickstand side.   

[Rocketman]

Would have been better of they put the drain on the kickstand side.   

Oh, absolutely. 
Works fine w/ a centerstand, though.  (:

[Robert]

This is the inside of the engine looking at the oil drain plug. As you can see the wall around it and so draining it is better done with the bike almost level, As for the pumps they do work just as well as draining the oil from a plug and you can go into the oil fill hole with no problem and probably get every last drop. As for the drain plug itself they make a slightly longer plug and you may be able to catch the last part of the threads just don't tighten to much. The plug is a common size and there are many styles out there. As for fixing the hole with a helicoil that's about the best way to do it if all the simple ways fail, but there are problems with this too. Getting the thing straight and being able to work in a confined space if you don't have a lift. If you do then its not quite as bad the shavings will pretty much be taken out with the tap if you use a bit of grease on it when you do it. I will also say that if you do the helicoil that the threads will leak oil and you will have to get a washer or bolt with a larger head seeing as the threads of the helicoil will be about the same diameter as the head of the bolt that's supposed to seal the hole. This does create a slight problem as you really don't have much room for a bigger washer or bolt so check it first the head has to be a little bit larger than the hole that was made at first to tap the threads into. The inserts are garbage and will leak and do pull out no matter what they say and as a helicoil they do leak around the outer diameter of the insert even with thread locker on them. As one of the easiest solutions they do make drain plugs of a slightly larger diameter than the Honda plug I would find one of these and get a tap and go just that much larger. Since the drain plug from Honda is metric if you go with a US thread size it will be just a very small amount larger and if you buy a tap it should almost start by itself without having to drill the block at all. I would vote for trying the longer bolt first then trying the American threads all the other ways have problems. There are also drain kits that use a spigot like valve that just screws into the hole that the drain plug come out of and all you do to drain the oil is open the valve. It dosent hang down to low and I even thought about putting one on my bike as a easy solution to changing the oil. Look them up on the internet. If you drain all the oil out and clean the threds good you can put epoxy on the valve and the block and screw the thing home. It wont leak come out and you can open the valve and drain the oil. They also as a last resort make rubber drain plugs that you put in with a tool and they expand to fill the hole and seal very weill. You will just need the tool to take them out and it comes with it very cheap and available at any auto parts store. [/color]http://www.quickoildrainvalve.com/

[KY,Dave (AKA Misunderstood)]

Thanks for the link. Nice option.