No spark 1 & 2… Poor spark 6

[Whiskey Bravo]

Hi everyone,

My bike is been running like a percolating coffeepot lately

With the bike running I pull spark plug wire 1 no change in RPM… pull spark plug wire number 2 no change in RPM… No spark arcing from the wires in either cylinder

Pull spark plug wire #3 reduces RPMs… Or kills bike… Pull spark plug number 4 reduces RPM… Both seem to arc very well from the wires

Pull spark plug number 5 reduces RPM great deal of arcing… Pull spark plug number 6… Minor reduction in RPM… No spark arcing from wires

I’m pretty sure it’s the coils and maybe the wires…… What you guys think?

Thanks for the help in advance

Yours truly,

Whiskey bravo

[WintrSol]

Well, #1 and #2 use the same coil (also 3/4 and 5/6); could be the control or power wires to that coil, one or both spark plug caps open, or a failing coil.

The #6 issue could be a failing #6 plug cap leaking the spark away, or the coil could be weak. Since you get lots of spark when #5 is pulled, it could be the #5 cap has a poor connection, making the spark at #6 weak.

The caps can be removed, the ends of the high tension wires trimmed, and the caps reinstalled, with silicone grease on the seals. The 1/2 coil is above the left bank of carburetors, attached to the frame under the tank; the other two are between the engine and battery box.

[gordonv]

I also thought 1-2, 3-4 & 5-6 share coils.

But there is only 2 coil signal pickups, odd and even (?). I would start there.

I have no personal experience with the above issue, but I do have a little (scary) knowledge of electrical, and understand how it works.

I would think there is steps in the Service Manual (available from Dag's website) on how to test this part.

[WintrSol]

It appears the pickup coils are about 60 degrees apart, while spark is 120 degrees apart. So, the ignition module must not use the coils directly to time the spark for all three coils. I'd have to turn the engine over manually to see if either coil lines up with TDC on one pair of cylinders, and it probably is, but the other is clearly for measuring rpm.

[Ricky-D]

If you're getting spark on any cylinder you can eliminate the pick up modules, trigger wheel, and ECU. best bet is to check the connections for the coil and the coil itself. Won't be the first time a coil has gone bad and generally speaking those are the only things that go bad, all the rest of the system is pretty bulletproof.

***

[Skinhead]

How about switching the coils and seeing if the situation you describe follows the coil?

1&2 spark, 3&4 don't.

I would think you could do this by switching primary wires and rerouting the plug wires it they are long enough.

Any one see a flaw in that?

[Lyle Laun]

I've been down this road and agree with RickyD. ProCaliber shows coils for $72 each and free shipping. I changed all 3 instead of trying to find the bad one and it seems you may have 2 of 3 coils bad.

Lyle

[Whiskey Bravo]

Hi everyone,

Thank you for the helpful input

I decided to go with ordering 3 coils and a set of wires… Should have them here Saturday

… Unfortunately it spoiling my plans to go to John's barbecue get together in Prescott Arizona… Maybe next time…

I'll keep everybody advise

Thanks again

Whiskey bravo

[Whiskey Bravo]

Hi all,

Update and more MYSTERIES!

I changed out the coils and the wires which did wonders for my machine… But still it's not perfect just improved… Idle problem… everything else seems to be well

Getting spark to all the plugs however 2 & 6 still not firing at idle… I have attributed this to the slow jets… So I purchased 2  cans of BG 44K and will apply half a can per tank… Fingers crossed… Toes too…

New Mystery –!

IDLE GOING CRAZY!

I warm up the machine for at least 5 minutes or until the valve covers get warm before I  return the choke to normal position and depart… The machine usually idles right around 900 (even with number 2 and number 6 not firing)

Now if I go for a ride of say about 30 or 40 minutes and park then return. I start the bike and the idle starts at around 1000 RPMs…

Further,  while in stop and go traffic the idle slowly but surely begins to start creeping up sometimes as high as 1800 RPMs… But usually around that 1500 rpm range…

That's okay with me right now because I think they may be help cleaning the slow jets… correct me if I'm wrong

However, I have to address this and the only thing I can think of is that I may need a ECU.

I've been doing my research via the search function… I haven't seen much information about common failures for ECUs… Hoping I can get some input and help…




Thanks again

Whiskey bravo

[The emperor has no clothes]

I wouldn't start throwing parts at it. To begin with, I've never had my choke on for more than a minute or so. Will it not run with the choke off ? If your jets are clogged hopefully the treatment will unclog them. If not it's not that hard to remove the carb bank and clean them. That's where I would start.

[Hook#3287]

I've been doing my research via the search function… I haven't seen much information about common failures for ECUs… Hoping I can get some input and help…

I don't remember hearing of any ECU crapping out, maybe happened, but not a common failure.

I've got 116K on my original Valk I bought in 99 and she's still running the same wires and coils she was born with.  Coils aren't a common issue either.

Give the chemicals some time to work.  If that don't do it, I'd follow Meatheads advice and open up the carbs

[Ricky-D]

That uneven idle depending on engine heat is usually a symptom of a poor synchronization of the carburetors.

***

[Valkpilot]

That uneven idle depending on engine heat is usually a symptom of a poor synchronization of the carburetors.

***

It may be indicative of vacuum leaks too, I believe.

You mentioned clearing the slow jets which implies the bike may have been sitting.  I'm currently dealing with a bike that sat for 29 months with occasional warm up starts.  I think it ended up with about 3 clogged slow circuits and I had some of the symptoms you describe.  Through daily riding and use of lots of various solvents, they are almost completely cleared and the idle has stabilized.

Here's the thing: Even with a couple of cylinders dropping out because of plugged pilot circuits, these bikes will still run like scalded dogs when you get up on the main jet circuit, leaving the impression that it's not the carbs, but perhaps something else (like electrical) at fault.

My suggestion is to make sure the carbs are completely clear of gunk, make sure you have a clean air filter, synchronize as Ricky suggests, and make sure there are no vacuum leaks.  If it still runs rough, only then would I be looking for electrical problems.

[Rio Wil]

I'm not so sure that you have not fouled out the plugs in this process. Running with the enricher (choke) on for 5 minutes is way excessive. I am amazed it will stay running for 5 minutes and not flood out and stall.........usually 30 seconds will do. 

[Ricky-D]

There have been times that I have forgotten that the enricher circuit is "on" and have run all day like that with no ill affects. I think the circuit will not work when the engine is "off throttle". Naturally, I am not suggesting it's Ok to run the engine like that, but I am saying, the system has no relationship to a "regular" choke type set-up.

***

[Bone]

Couple of days ago almost 2 miles after take off my lever was 1/2 way on. My thought was relating the situation to the standard choke setup.

Maybe I didn't do anything wrong.

[Rio Wil]

I left mine on once and came to a stop sign after only a few minutes and the engine was idling down and rough, turning off the choke smoothed it immediately. Can't believe yours was on all day and it did not have the same effect, not saying it didn't happen.....just seems odd that an enrichment circuit would not affect a warm engine noticeably especially at idle.  When off idle, mine ran OK  also.

Bone....if yours was 1/2 way on....it wasn't on at all....

[Bone]

Rio Wil your probably correct. I push it down all the way to start and back it off soon after.

[Firefighter]

Fast idle is usually vacuum leak like intake o ring or vacuum hoses. Possible throttle cable hanging.

Ignition trouble, make sure frame is grounding to the battery negative, this is a common problem. You can run a temporary ground wire from battery to frame.

Spark plugs can foul if they are repeatedly flooded or bad ignition.

[Ricky-D]

I certainly would insure there are no vacuum leaks and it's easy enough to do with a spray can of starter fluid. Just be cautious and careful to not cause a fire. There's other ways to check for vacuum leaks that will work, the important thing being to resolve that question. Now, I've never heard of BG 44K and I can't comment on the efficacy of the stuff but I'd use no more (yet) and run the bike to get what's in the tank, out of the tank. Get a tank of non-ethanol gasoline if possible. Also, I would drain some gasoline from the two carburetors that are giving you the trouble (#2 and #6). Do this and see what happens.

***

[Blackduck]

Used BG44K on an Evinrude outboard that had sat for a long time.
Actually poured it straight into the carb feed line. Ran it the next day and had  made some difference but still had to open the carbs.
Top carb was nice and shiny inside , the middle fairly clean and the lower still fairly dirty, figured that most of the cleaner went to the top carb.
Found the lower carb jets gunked up with green slime. and think that was stopping the cleaner getting right into the jets. May have worked if it was left for a few days.

[Ricky-D]

In all the years on this forum I can recall only a few instances where there was a bad ECU. I mean like two times. Why don't you post any modifications made to the bike, like the exhaust system, the carburetors and fuel system, and the ignition system. Have you had the bike since new? Are you the original owner?

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[john]

                          " to remove the carb bank and clean them "   
                several , many hours to do it right ..      ???
                   IF you know what you're do'in AND have every thing needed ...
then synchronize the carburetors     
         IgnitionControlModule ... ICM