Rear end service-worn flange

[Beardo]

Riding season is over here, so I did my fall rear end service.

The last little while, I've noticed a quiet click...not quite loud enough to be a clunk...just when starting out. I did the full rear end service last fall(6000kms ago), flange, driveshaft and pinion cup looked brand new. 4000 kms ago, I put on a new rear tire before my trip this summer, I just pulled the tire, didn't look at the driveshaft or pull the pumpkin then because it had only been a couple thousand kms since the last time. The flange was perfect then too. I did not loosen off the 4 final drive bolts when I buttoned everything up. I know...stupid.

Ordered new dampeners, o-rings and also a new u-joint and boot for the hell of it. Rear bearings were replaced last year and feel fine.  Replaced the shocks with IS shocks recently, put on new bushings then, so they're new.

Pulled off the wheel and my driven flange no longer looks new, it's worn on the one side of every tooth. No where near as bad as some I've seen on here, but still worn. Pulled the pumpkin, driveshaft and pinion cup look ok, although the corners/edges of the driveshaft teeth aren't as sharp. I wouldn't say they are rounded off, just not as sharp as I remember. Dampeners were not loose in the wheel but the inserts had a small amount of play in them. Replaced them.

I inspected the final drive, I do notice a slight tick when I get to one spot when I turn the pinion cup back and forth quickly. I took it to my local Honda dealer, spoke to the 60ish year old mechanic (seems to know his stuff), he said it shouldn't be an issue, it's fine.

I was worried I may have something worn in my final drive that caused the flange wear in the last 4000 kms. But now, I'm thinking it's because I didn't loosen off the 4 bolts last time I had the wheel off and tighten them last. I ordered a new flange, should be here in a few days.

So...I'm hoping this was self-caused by not loosening the 4 bolts last time. Would it wear that much from that? If so, I'll take that $170 lesson and learn for next time.

And is the slight tick in the final drive when turning the pinion cup back and forth quickly anything to worry about?

PS...that u-joint boot...ugh. What worked for me was to sock roll the swing arm end, roll it onto the swing arm then put the front on(no sock roll for the front). Once I did that, it only took 2 minutes.

[Chrisj CMA]

Look very closely, I would be surprised if the teeth in the final drive weren't similarly worn as the flange.

[Beardo]

Look very closely, I would be surprised if the teeth in the final drive weren't similarly worn as the flange.

Yeah, they are slightly worn on the one side as well. Corners are still sharp. The valleys are just a bit wider than the peaks.

So I suppose that just going to wear out the new flange then too?

[hubcapsc]

Mine looks like this. For years. Every time I look in there...



Is yours worn a lot more than that?

-Mike

[Beardo]

[Beardo]

The clicking was hearing must have been this, when I put the flange into the final drive, hold the flange and turn the pinion cup, there is definite slop there.

So is the flange replacement and proper tightening sequence from now on going to get me a lot of life out of that final drive or am I screwed and have to replace the cup in the final drive?

[Skinhead]

The clicking was hearing must have been this, when I put the flange into the final drive, hold the flange and turn the pinion cup, there is definite slop there.

So is the flange replacement and proper tightening sequence from now on going to get me a lot of life out of that final drive or am I screwed and have to replace the cup in the final drive?

Mine have looked like that since I bought my IS with 47,000 miles on it.  I just turned over 111,000+ miles and they still look like that.

these pics were taken about 30,000 miles ago:

http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,63892.msg620050/topicseen.html#msg620050

[Beardo]

Thanks skinhead, that's reassuring.

So I guess I could have gotten some more life out of my flange. But there is slop there and it's an easily replaced part...if I can get rid of some of that slop and get some more life out of my final drive that isn't easily repaired, I don't mind replacing it. I don't want to leave it chew up the final drive and I don't want to get stranded a few thousand miles from home.

By the way, how are you getting the splines inside your final drive so darn clean? Carb cleaner ok?

[Harryc]

Anything that cuts grease is fine. I think I used an old toothbrush and a small flat blade screwdriver to clean the area as well. Don't forget to replace the o-rings and the thrust washer and apply moly grease.

[Skinhead]

Brake cleaner and Q-tips.  If I were you, I'd run what you have, just keep it lubed.  Also check you u-joint, mine had a little play in it when twisted with channel locks.  Replacing it made a huge difference.  The old one is my back up now.

My concern with replacing only one half of the splines is the originals have worn in as a set, I don't know if changing one half only would cause new wear issues, but your current ones look to be in very good shape to me.

[Beardo]

Yeah, I replaced the ujoint today. My old one was ok, but had 80,000kms on it, so I figured why not. I ha pre-ordered the parts that I though could give me that clicking sound, that was my first guess.

And yeah, I thought about leaving my old flange in once I saw your pics, but I have to think a new one that will eliminate at least half the slop shouldn't hurt but help. It's bought and paid for anyway. I'll see how they mesh together when it gets here.

Thanks for the tip on the brake cleaner and q-tips.

[Tfrank59]

Beardo, my splines look just like yours.  I bought my bike with 27k on it and didn't know the PO (or his mechanic) didn't grease the splines, so I went another 5k before getting in there for a tire change.  I arrested the problem at 32k (by using the correct grease at proper intervals) and my splines haven't gotten worse yet at 54k.  My understanding though is that once there's a bit of slop in drive splines the wear tends to snowball, so any more wear and I'll have to replace parts. 

One big problem, if you haven't figured it out, is the female drive spline can only be replaced by taking apart the pumpkin (which houses the final drive gears), and that takes a press, lots of know-how, and some bucks (there are threads on this forum with all the details).  I managed to pick up a used Valk pumpkin with good splines, so I have a back up.  Some guys have bought Goldwing GL 1500 pumpkins (much cheaper/easier to find) and used the splines from them--the splines will fit a Valk but you still have to disassemble and swap parts as the GW pumpkin won't fit a Valk.

[Beardo]

Beardo, my splines look just like yours.  I bought my bike with 27k on it and didn't know the PO (or his mechanic) didn't grease the splines, so I went another 5k before getting in there for a tire change.  I arrested the problem at 32k (by using the correct grease at proper intervals) and my splines haven't gotten worse yet at 54k.  My understanding though is that once there's a bit of slop in drive splines the wear tends to snowball, so any more wear and I'll have to replace parts. 

One big problem, if you haven't figured it out, is the female drive spline can only be replaced by taking apart the pumpkin (which houses the final drive gears), and that takes a press, lots of know-how, and some bucks (there are threads on this forum with all the details).  I managed to pick up a used Valk pumpkin with good splines, so I have a back up.  Some guys have bought Goldwing GL 1500 pumpkins (much cheaper/easier to find) and used the splines from them--the splines will fit a Valk but you still have to disassemble and swap parts as the GW pumpkin won't fit a Valk.

Good to know it can be stopped, or slowed down at least, with the right grease and tightening sequence (from now on!)  I had the right grease, but I didn't do the 4 bolts last time. Figured it would be ok. Was clearly wrong. Lesson learned.

Yeah, I know replacing the final drive spline replacement isn't easy.  I'll keep an eye out for a spare pumpkin, but by the sounds of what you guys tell me, I have plenty of life left in mine, with my 10,000 km riding per year(6 months of winter up here), I'm probably good for several more years.

[The emperor has no clothes]

If it was me I wouldn't use the new flange with the worn rear gear. I think the flange will quickly wear in to mate with the gear. I would clean, grease, and properly tighten everything in order. As far as cleaning the pumpkin gears well. Grumpy used a parts cleaner and got them spotless. If you have one that would be the best. I don't, so I've been using spray carb cleaner with good effect. It's a lot quicker and easier than Q-tips that I used to use. For what it's worth in my opinion the Honda Moly 60 and proper tightening sequence are the most important things.

[pancho]

" For what it's worth in my opinion the Honda Moly 60 and proper tightening sequence are the most important things."

I agree,, those things by themselves will keep the wear down to next to nothing if starting with good condition parts.

Changing the splines out from a GW final drive is not a big deal, and does not require any more expertise than any good mechanic will have. If you have a press or access to one, it can be done in a couple of hours (maybe an afternoon for the first time) once you have secured the parts and studied what needs doing (all the information has been recorded on posts to this board). My first attempt has been running on my daily rider for about three years now and the splines look brand new.

[Beardo]

I do have access to a press. What year/model Goldwing final drive does one look for?

As others have stated, I've likely got lots of miles left on mine, but I'll keep my eyes open for a spare.

[indybobm]

i would look for a 1990 to 2003 GL1500. Earlier units (before 1990) used a six finger drive flange. If you find one, make sure that:

1. Wear is minimal
2. the drive flange that was used with the final derive is included (existing wear pattern).

[gordonv]

i would look for a 1990 to 2003 GL1500. Earlier units used a six finger drive flange. If you find one, make sure that:

That would be any GL1500 1990 - 2000 Goldwing.

As for the 6 or 5 finger GW flange, that is for that. I don't know if it matters for the pinion gear that some want from the GW rear.

[hubcapsc]

i would look for a 1990 to 2003 GL1500. Earlier units used a six finger drive flange. If you find one, make sure that:

That would be any GL1500 1990 - 2000 Goldwing.

As for the 6 or 5 finger GW flange, that is for that. I don't know if it matters for the pinion gear that some want from the GW rear.

I think I determined that the pressed in ring-gear-teeth are the same, but it is
nice to get the Valkyrie-suitable five-finger flange (for $25 or $35 usually) that
goes with the newer 1500 wing finals...

-Mike

[Beardo]

So, in hindsight, I could have bought this good final drive and the flange for the same price as I paid for a new flange at the dealer and swapped out the final drive splines. Oh well.


https://www.ebay.ca/itm/282213396462

HONDA GOLDWING GL 1500 GL1500 FINAL DRIVE DIFFERENTIAL

[hubcapsc]

The flange looks good, so the ring gear probably looks good too.

There's some gasket goo and a seal you need to have on hand too. I had to take
my parts down to the NAPA store downtown, they have a shop and the guy there
was willing to press the ring gears for me. Some of you guys had rebuilt your car's
transmission three times before you got out of high school, so on
that scale this is an easy job...

-Mike

[Beardo]

Took everyone's advice and put the bike back together with the old flange. The new flange did fit tighter with no play but I'm sure it would wear to match the final drive splines pretty quickly. Lots of Moly paste, new o rings, thrust washer, dampeners, ujoint and boot.

Man I hate getting that driveshaft in the ujoint. I finally found if I put the swingarm high, supported by a 1x4 across the exhaust and a 2x4 on top of that, it went in pretty quickly. Or maybe it was just dumb luck. I dunno. But I'm putting this here as a reminder set to myself for next time when I do it so I remember what worked. 

[The emperor has no clothes]

Took everyone's advice and put the bike back together with the old flange. The new flange did fit tighter with no play but I'm sure it would wear to match the final drive splines pretty quickly. Lots of Moly paste, new o rings, thrust washer, dampeners, ujoint and boot.

Man I hate getting that driveshaft in the ujoint. I finally found if I put the swingarm high, supported by a 1x4 across the exhaust and a 2x4 on top of that, it went in pretty quickly. Or maybe it was just dumb luck. I dunno. But I'm putting this here as a reminder set to myself for next time when I do it so I remember what worked. 

Try a ratchet strap around it next time. You can get it to exactly where you want it. Actually I use an old style cam strap.

[Beardo]

That would work too.

 

I have no idea how people do this on the ground while jacked up. I had it on my lift at chest height and still had a hell of a time...had to walk away several times. But NOW I know. 

[The emperor has no clothes]

That would work too.

 

I have no idea how people do this on the ground while jacked up. I had it on my lift at chest height and still had a hell of a time...had to walk away several times. But NOW I know. 

I think a lot is in my future. It's getting really hard on my back with just the bike Jack.