Hydrolock Questions

[Dickl]

Yes, I know it happens when the moon sun stars etc line up. I'm a newbie and am looking to avoid it.


Ethanol...Is this the real culprit (cause)? As I understand it:


1.  Due to ethanol gas the hoses erode and crud from the gas forms and gets on the needle valves

2.) The crud on the needle valves causes them to stay partially open

3.) The gas shutoff petcock and valve fails or has been leaking anyway

4.) The bowls fill up, because the ethanol, caused the crud, which gets on the needle valves, which now won't close, the bowl(s) fill up, wont shut down, and gas runs into the cylinder(s).

5.) Cylinder 6 (and maybe others fill up. 

6.) The starter engages and Hydro lock occurs.

7.) The teeth on the starter, flywheel etc fail and the engine is filled with damaged parts.


Question 1.
Would non ethanol gas decrease the chances of this happening. Should I consider running over to New York State and getting 5 to 10 cans of non ethanol gas.

Question 2. Should I take my Valk out and shut the petcock of a mile or so form home and see if the petcock is working.

Question 2a. If my  petcock does not cause the engine to run out gas - Will the Pingel petcock and Dan-Marc (or whatever the name) valve solve the problem?

Question 3. Would a gas filter help?

Question 4. Tapping the starter. This actually works?

Question 5.) I make PMA aircraft parts, Parts that are FAA approved OEM copies. I have not seen the starter gear. If the starter gear was make of a type of metal with a lower Rockwell number - should the gear or gear shaft fail first (a sacrificed part), would that stop the hydro lock? 
Like a shear pin on a snowblower?

Dickl
 

[hukmut]

What year is your bike? How old is it? Doesn't matter. Remove your carbs, take the floats out and replace the float valves. Also known as float needle and seat. The little springs that shut off the fuel, have done their jobs for, how long, have essentially lost their "springiness". This, and possibly a leaking fuel shutoff diaphram, in my opinion and experience, have been known to cause hydrolock.
The float needles are available on eBay as well as elsewhere. DO NOT let any dealer do this!!!!!
You can do it!  Most dealers do not have technicians schooled in working on/ " repairing" our bikes.
Remember to replace the manifold o-rings.
Do yourself a favor an do a "search" on the vrcc website as to the details.

Really, do not take it to a dealer UNLESS you know the tech personally.


Ride safe, y'all!

[hubcapsc]

I think hydrolock is caused by a bad petcock, more often than
not combined with one or more bad float valves.

I have a 97, and I sure wouldn't take the carbs off unless I
already knew for sure they were fubar.

I use non-ethanol when I can get it, but use plenty of ethanol
gas too.



You can find ways to test your petcock in this site's "shoptalk".

It can be easily and quickly rebuilt.

-Mike

[Chrisj CMA]

Question 5.) I make PMA aircraft parts, Parts that are FAA approved OEM copies. I have not seen the starter gear. If the starter gear was make of a type of metal with a lower Rockwell number - should the gear or gear shaft fail first (a sacrificed part), would that stop the hydro lock? 
Like a shear pin on a snowblower?

I'm not an engineer so I'm not sure about the detailed metallurgy but there's one thing you may not be factoring in to this particular question.  The 1500 Goldwing (like the 1800) has a reverse.  The reverse is driven by the starter motor and that is why it is over built as far as torque strength.  Maybe if the gear you are asking about was designed to fail, it might fail while backing up a hill on a 1500 Wing.  Honda did not re-engineer everything about this motor when converting it to a Valkyrie.  Just the top end and the carbs really, and of course they left off the reverse capability for U.S. models.

[Pete]

In order for Hydolock to occur:
Petcock must be leaking fuel into the fuel line or vacuum line, on shutoff or vacuum shutoff.
1 or more float valves must be leaking gas, ie partially open.
The intake valve on the leaking carbs cylinder must be partially open or have leaking seat or valve.
The gas overflow circuit of the carbs must be restricted, more resistance to flow than the jets.
The gas must be in a cylinder that has the exhaust valve closed, else it just leaks into the exhaust.
The gas filled cylinder is on the compression stroke or intake stroke before compression, gas does not compress so boom broken parts.

Ethanol gas left sitting in carbs over time will leave a deposit on the needle valve. Takes a lot of time and sitting. Regular gas can do the same thing, but it is easier to clean off. The ethanol sits up very hard and crusty.

It is not just a Valkyrie thing, I have seen riding lawn lowers hydrolock for the same reasons.

[Pete]

Check this post for petcock info
http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,90839.0.html

[hubcapsc]

1 or more float valves must be leaking gas, ie partially open.

With a sufficiently broken petcock (the petcock's weep hole has to
be blocked too) gas can run down the petcock vacuum line and fill
up #6...



-Mike

[Ricky-D]

They got it all wrong about ethanol gas. Ethanol gas when left to sit quietly for a while will stratify, separate you can say. Besides that, ethanol gas will support, because of the ethanol and accompanying water, hydrocarbon tolerant algae and fungus. The red stuff, that some refer to as rust but is actually organic matter. This is the material that clogs the jets and passages, causes the float needles to stick and generally contributes to the degradation of the rubber and neoprene parts in the carburetors and fuel delivery system. You wont get this with non-ethanol enriched gasoline. I have been running non-ethanol enriched gasoline exclusively since I bought the bike in 2000 and have never had a problem with the fuel/carburetor system. I do not use any gasoline additive either.

***

[jim@98valkyrie.com]

I have been running non-ethanol enriched gasoline exclusively since I bought the bike in 2000 and have never had a problem with the fuel/carburetor system. I do not use any gasoline additive either.

***

Wish I had ethanol free gas...... Only sources around here are 100 Octane AvGas and  racing fuel. I love my Phat Girl a lot, but time, money  and distance don't make that feasible.

[Harryc]

Wish I had ethanol free gas...... Only sources around here are 100 Octane AvGas and  racing fuel. I love my Phat Girl a lot, but time, money  and distance don't make that feasible.

I'm with you there Jim. Do to a now fairly old EPA regulation this county does not allow non-ethanol fuel. I have to drive an hour north to get it. I guess if I really loved the fat lady I'd get a 50 gallon gas container and head north....Not!!!

[Firefighter]

Carburetors were gumming up before ethanol was widely used.
 If you use your bike weekly I doubt you would ever have problems, or use a stablizer if the bike has to sit. I don't ever have trouble with my 16 rear old machine.
I would not repair the carburetors if nothing is wrong with them, do your maintenance and ride!

[twisted]

I wish I could figure out how to post pic's here!!! I just tore down a 2000 GL 1500 tourer engine with only 15,000 miles on it . Ever since I bought the bike #6 cylinder had lower compression... I had the heads off and was looking at the pistons while my son slowly turned the crank... low and behold the #6 piston was about a 1/4 of an inch short of the top of the  cylinder... Frig... as I said I just tore it down this weekend and sure enough the rod looked like a dogs hind leg... I can't seem to get the pic on here but if anyone is interested drop me a email at leewardhelicopters@gmail.com and I would gladly send a pic...

Cheers

[hubcapsc]

I wish I could figure out how to post pic's here!!! I just tore down a 2000 GL 1500 tourer engine with only 15,000 miles on it . Ever since I bought the bike #6 cylinder had lower compression... I had the heads off and was looking at the pistons while my son slowly turned the crank... low and behold the #6 piston was about a 1/4 of an inch short of the top of the  cylinder... Frig... as I said I just tore it down this weekend and sure enough the rod looked like a dogs hind leg... I can't seem to get the pic on here but if anyone is interested drop me a email at leewardhelicopters@gmail.com and I would gladly send a pic...

Cheers

You have to put your picture on the Internet somewhere.

Then type the URL into your post... here's a sample URL:

https://sites.google.com/site/hubcapsite1/fcr2016/randy.jpg

That's almost enough... you can click on the above URL and see
the picture, but the picture is still not embedded in the post.

To get the picture into your post so it will show, surround the
URL with image tags:



While you're typing in your post, you'll just have to imagine that
the picture is there, but after you post, it will be there... 

-Mike

[The emperor has no clothes]

I wish I could figure out how to post pic's here!!! I just tore down a 2000 GL 1500 tourer engine with only 15,000 miles on it . Ever since I bought the bike #6 cylinder had lower compression... I had the heads off and was looking at the pistons while my son slowly turned the crank... low and behold the #6 piston was about a 1/4 of an inch short of the top of the  cylinder... Frig... as I said I just tore it down this weekend and sure enough the rod looked like a dogs hind leg... I can't seem to get the pic on here but if anyone is interested drop me a email at leewardhelicopters@gmail.com and I would gladly send a pic...

Cheers

You have to put your picture on the Internet somewhere.

Then type the URL into your post... here's a sample URL:

https://sites.google.com/site/hubcapsite1/fcr2016/randy.jpg

That's almost enough... you can click on the above URL and see
the picture, but the picture is still not embedded in the post.

To get the picture into your post so it will show, surround the
URL with image tags:



While you're typing in your post, you'll just have to imagine that
the picture is there, but after you post, it will be there... 

-Mike

Or if you are as dumb as me. Just use Photobucket, copy your pic in the box that is titled "img" and then paste it in your dialog box.

[jim@98valkyrie.com]

I wish I could figure out how to post pic's here!!! I just tore down a 2000 GL 1500 tourer engine with only 15,000 miles on it . Ever since I bought the bike #6 cylinder had lower compression... I had the heads off and was looking at the pistons while my son slowly turned the crank... low and behold the #6 piston was about a 1/4 of an inch short of the top of the  cylinder...
Cheers

Twisted sent me his pics and here they are :

[twisted]

This was hydrolock... I now have an electric shutoff in the fuel line!!!!

I wish I could figure out how to post pic's here!!! I just tore down a 2000 GL 1500 tourer engine with only 15,000 miles on it . Ever since I bought the bike #6 cylinder had lower compression... I had the heads off and was looking at the pistons while my son slowly turned the crank... low and behold the #6 piston was about a 1/4 of an inch short of the top of the  cylinder...
Cheers

Twisted sent me his pics and here they are :

[The emperor has no clothes]

I had no idea they would bend the rods that much. 

[indybobm]

Looks like it actually started before the hydro-locked piston came up. That's why you tap the starter button multiple times.

[twisted]

New parts arrived... Now to put the puzzle back together 

[gordonv]

Twisted, don't forget to keep us informed, start a new thread and show your rebuild.

If you haven't figured out how to post pictures yet, send me a PM with your contact # and I can call you and help you out over the phone.

I still have one large socket, I think it's the 36mm, the one for the output shaft. I sold the other 2 for the clutch basket with the basket.

I also have those starter gears, but it sounds like you already would have them if you needed them.

[pancho]

Wow,, and no scuffing on the skirt of the piston,, an aligned bend,,,, the motor should be good to go when reassembled. Gotta love our flat sixes.

Had you been running the bike like that twisted? no damage to the starter drive or rear case??

One more reason for a fuel shutoff valve......,  but in this case, it may be that the fuel traveled to number six via the petcock vacuum hose, which a fuel shutoff would not have prevented.  Those pictures are in my mind now. 

This might add a little weight to the guys that swear by the manual Pingle.

[Daviddurtschi]

I have a 98 standard and have 2 sets of carbs but I don't see an overflow pipe coming out of the bowl, to help prevent hydrolock.  It isn't the vent pipe is it?  Maybe the older valks don't have this overflow pipe?

[Smokinjoe-VRCCDS#0005]

. I have been running non-ethanol enriched gasoline exclusively since I bought the bike in 2000 and have never had a problem with the fuel/carburetor system. I do not use any gasoline additive either.

***

How could you take a road trip and do that ?

[Harryc]

. I have been running non-ethanol enriched gasoline exclusively since I bought the bike in 2000 and have never had a problem with the fuel/carburetor system. I do not use any gasoline additive either.

***

How could you take a road trip and do that ?

It's possible, but you'd better have this website handy on your smartphone. . http://www.pure-gas.org/

[Pete]

I have a 98 standard and have 2 sets of carbs but I don't see an overflow pipe coming out of the bowl, to help prevent hydrolock.  It isn't the vent pipe is it?  Maybe the older valks don't have this overflow pipe?

Yes the vent is thru the overflow hoses, 1 on each side.

[twisted]

Wow,, and no scuffing on the skirt of the piston,, an aligned bend,,,, the motor should be good to go when reassembled. Gotta love our flat sixes.

Had you been running the bike like that twisted? no damage to the starter drive or rear case??

One more reason for a fuel shutoff valve......,  but in this case, it may be that the fuel traveled to number six via the petcock vacuum hose, which a fuel shutoff would not have prevented.  Those pictures are in my mind now. 

This might add a little weight to the guys that swear by the manual Pingle.

I ran the bike for 6 years with that connecting rod... When i purchased the bike the tech report mentioned a slightly lower compression on#6 but was supposedly cured with Sea Foam!! It only had 2700miles on it...I noticed that the carbs had been worked on (new hoses) and found that a little curious... One day I touched the starter and the engine was locked... pulled the plugs and #6 was full of fuel... I did a compression check and #6 was lower by 30psi... I couldn't stand that and tried to figure out how to fix it... couldn't .. so I bought another mule from Bike strippers... not much of a demand I guess only paid $375 for it + shipping... I had 2 valks by that time so parked the one with low compression and fixed up the new engine... pulled the bad engine and while messing with the timing with the heads off noticed that the piston was about a 1/4 inch short in the bore... crap I said!!! Anyhow can't stand having things that are less than 100% decided I would tear it down to see the damage... Damm I said.... that sucks...put the picture on here priced some parts and looking forward to putting it back together when I get home( working in Australia right now)... By the way the hardest thing pulling the engine down was splitting the engine halves... They used enough glue to run a kindergarten for a couple of years...

[twisted]

Twisted, don't forget to keep us informed, start a new thread and show your rebuild.

If you haven't figured out how to post pictures yet, send me a PM with your contact # and I can call you and help you out over the phone.

I still have one large socket, I think it's the 36mm, the one for the output shaft. I sold the other 2 for the clutch basket with the basket.

I also have those starter gears, but it sounds like you already would have them if you needed them.

Thanks Buddy... all good with the tools and the starter gear is good.... I get back to with the pics when I get home from downunder!!